Pot, Gay Marriage and Overturning the supreme court

[Willihammer]

 

I see few "merits" to pot use.

The issue for me is, while I see downside to pot use, that downside is far outweighed by the downsides of making pot illegal. We waste money unsuccessfully trying to stop trafficking, create a huge black market that encourages violence, and foster disrespect for law among otherwise good citizens.

The cure is far worse than the disease, and as a bonus, isn't a cure, since people who want to use pot pretty much all do so anyway.

As posted before, the similarities to prohibition are remarkable.

There are no merits, for most people, outside of getting wasted.

 

I don't think anyone knows how good or bad the cure would be. I don't think most people have given it any thought. What if Snoop Dogg shows up on Sunday afternoon in your living room advertising some smokeless cherry flavored product while your kids and you are watching Serena Williams lose her next grand slam? Why would a company spend millions on r&d and advertising if all the people who would use pot are already using it? How might recreational use patterns change a generation or two after legalization? Nobody seems to be asking these questions.

[DaveW]

I think pot has plenty of merits.

 

It helps for people with seizures.

It slows down tumor (cancer) growth.

Helps with Glaucoma

Helps with Migranes

Helps with OCD and ADD/ADHD

Helps with Stress/Anxiety

It can help prevent Alzheimers as well.

 

The side effects are almost non existent, other than making you crave some delicious, delicious pizza.

 

 

 

[DaveW]

 

 

There are no merits, for most people, outside of getting wasted.

 

I don't think anyone knows how good or bad the cure would be. I don't think most people have given it any thought. What if Snoop Dogg shows up on Sunday afternoon in your living room advertising some smokeless cherry flavored product while your kids and you are watching Serena Williams lose her next grand slam? Why would a company spend millions on r&d and advertising if all the people who would use pot are already using it? How might recreational use patterns change a generation or two after legalization? Nobody seems to be asking these questions.

You don't get "wasted" on weed.

 

As far as the "kids" question, it once again comes down to good and decent parenting. The problem with a lot of parents when it comes to sex, drugs, alcohol is that htey would rather blame everyone for "shoving it in their kids faces" instead of actually spending an hour of their time to have a good, open and honest talk with their kids.

 

i.e. "Booze is fine in moderation, but you have to be careful as it can be addictive and too much can lead to serious short term issues, if you drink too much don't ever drive and don't be afraid to call one of us for a ride home etc"

"Weed won't hurt you long term, but if you do choose to use you should use it in moderation"

"Sex is not something you HAVE to wait for marriage for, however it is a very serious topic and you need to be safe etc"

 

 

[Willihammer]

Saying "parent better" to these problems isn't helpful. If everyone parented properly we wouldn't need criminal laws of any kind. The reality is that we a lot of parents - the point of our entire culture really, saying "do as I say not as I do" with respect to alcohol. Does legalizing weed lead us down that same road?

 

And if you're not wasted after smoking pot then you're not doing it right.

[DaveW]

 

And if you're not wasted after smoking pot then you're not doing it right.

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Not everyone who smokes, smokes until they basically fall asleep, you seem to have this narrow view of pot and those who smoke.

[DaveW]

 

 

- the point of our entire culture really, saying "do as I say not as I do" with respect to alcohol. Does legalizing weed lead us down that same road?

 

 

Again, the "problems" Majiuana would cause are a fraction of a percent of what Alcohol and Tobacco already cause. In addition the vast amount of tax dollars a state could bring in could actually go back into infrastructure, the schools, drug treament, lowered taxes etc.

[Willihammer]

 

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Not everyone who smokes, smokes until they basically fall asleep, you seem to have this narrow view of pot and those who smoke.

Call it buzzed or altered then. The point is, that's the only "merit" to smoking marijuana for 99% of people.

[USAFChief]

 

There are no merits, for most people, outside of getting wasted.

 

I don't think anyone knows how good or bad the cure would be. I don't think most people have given it any thought. What if Snoop Dogg shows up on Sunday afternoon in your living room advertising some smokeless cherry flavored product while your kids and you are watching Serena Williams lose her next grand slam? Why would a company spend millions on r&d and advertising if all the people who would use pot are already using it? How might recreational use patterns change a generation or two after legalization? Nobody seems to be asking these questions.

 So what would you have the nation do?

 

We've tried the war on drugs for decades, with little positive effect.  What do we do next?  Just stay the course?  

[Mike Sixel]

Given how legalization has worked in Portugal, I think that answer is obvious....of course, "we are different, blah, blah, blah" is the answer we'll get.

 

The head of fighting drugs in Portugal hated the idea....now he preaches for it. Legalization and regulation work. That has been demonstrated here with alcohol, and other places with other drugs.

 

But, we refuse to believe it when it doesn't fit our biases......

[Willihammer]

 

 So what would you have the nation do?

 

We've tried the war on drugs for decades, with little positive effect.  What do we do next?  Just stay the course?  

For starters you could probably axe the DEA. Stop putting people through the system, release anyone left in federal prison who is there on minor drug offenses. Beyond that I'm not sure, its a tough nut. Perhaps efforts to address addiction would be helpful although I would probably leave that to states personally.

[biggentleben]

 

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Not everyone who smokes, smokes until they basically fall asleep, you seem to have this narrow view of pot and those who smoke.

 

Then again, I've never been drunk, but I've enjoyed many drinks in my life.

[formerly33]

 

I think pot has plenty of merits.

 

It helps for people with seizures.

It slows down tumor (cancer) growth.

Helps with Glaucoma

Helps with Migranes

Helps with OCD and ADD/ADHD

Helps with Stress/Anxiety

It can help prevent Alzheimers as well.

 

The side effects are almost non existent, other than making you crave some delicious, delicious pizza.

Why? Because it kills you first? :')

 

Okay, I kid ...

[Craig Arko]

A somewhat simpler view of Dr. Carson, but it matches my own.

[Squirrel]

Personally, I really look forward to legalized marijuana. I can't stomach alcohol ... it would be nice to have a legal substance of abuse for those special moments.

[nicksaviking]

Anyone know if there are statutes in the legalized pot states regarding smoking pot with children in the home? 

 

Because that's really my only issue with the whole bit.  Is anyone held accountable for getting their toddler stoned off of second hand smoke or worse yet, getting my kid stoned because he's over playing with the neighbor kid?  Or is lack of consequence a part of the whole deal?

 

I'm just curious, I'm quite a bit more pro than con, but I haven't heard this part addressed before.

[SwainZag]

 

Call it buzzed or altered then. The point is, that's the only "merit" to smoking marijuana for 99% of people.

 

One of my closest friends uses pot to focus and keep calm and it's a much easier "fix" and has far fewer side effects than being on any ADD and ADHD medication.  I would rather have a few hits than take advil for a headache any day of the week.  

 

Being someone who has had their fair share of pot in my life, people who haven't smoked or don't smoke often totally blow the "being stoned" and "high" out of proportion.  For most people it takes a good amount to get a high, and not just a few puffs.  I don't know if this comes from TV, movies or friends they have who smoke way too much.  

 

I have a lot of view on drug legalization, but in my mind, legalizing marijuana would benefit the nation ALOT more than it does criminalizing it as we do right now.  

[Craig Arko]

 

One of my closest friends uses pot to focus and keep calm and it's a much easier "fix" and has far fewer side effects than being on any ADD and ADHD medication.  I would rather have a few hits than take advil for a headache any day of the week.  

 

Being someone who has had their fair share of pot in my life, people who haven't smoked or don't smoke often totally blow the "being stoned" and "high" out of proportion.  For most people it takes a good amount to get a high, and not just a few puffs.  I don't know if this comes from TV, movies or friends they have who smoke way too much.  

 

I have a lot of view on drug legalization, but in my mind, legalizing marijuana would benefit the nation ALOT more than it does criminalizing it as we do right now.  

Somewhere between Reefer Madness and Cheech and Chong, I expect. BTW, I have never used marijuana myself, but if it were decriminalized and had a good delivery method other than smoking (brownies, maybe?) I'd consider it for pain management.

[Vanimal46]

 

Somewhere between Reefer Madness and Cheech and Chong, I expect. BTW, I have never used marijuana myself, but if it were decriminalized and had a good delivery method other than smoking (brownies, maybe?) I'd consider it for pain management.

 

There are plenty of non-smoking alternatives... brownies, cookies, lollipops, candy bars, gummy bears, oils, etc. 

[DaveW]

 

There are plenty of non-smoking alternatives... brownies, cookies, lollipops, candy bars, gummy bears, oils, etc. 

Just be careful with those, especially if you are a first time user.

 

Edibles are much more likely to get you "messed up" then smoking.

[Willihammer]

 

One of my closest friends uses pot to focus and keep calm and it's a much easier "fix" and has far fewer side effects than being on any ADD and ADHD medication.  I would rather have a few hits than take advil for a headache any day of the week.  

 

Being someone who has had their fair share of pot in my life, people who haven't smoked or don't smoke often totally blow the "being stoned" and "high" out of proportion.  For most people it takes a good amount to get a high, and not just a few puffs.  I don't know if this comes from TV, movies or friends they have who smoke way too much.  

 

I have a lot of view on drug legalization, but in my mind, legalizing marijuana would benefit the nation ALOT more than it does criminalizing it as we do right now.  

"Hey man, I self medicate." Yeah I've heard that one before. Ask him again in 5-10 years if he feels the same way.

 

I don't want to get much deeper into the world's dumbest pissing contest but to be clear, the amount of pot I personally have consumed numbers in the xx-ounces, so I'm not basing my opinions on what I've seen of Cheech and Chong. It is true that regular users have burnt out receptors and so aren't as sensitive to THC, like with any drug.

 

I maintain there are no legitimate merits for 99% of people.

[DaveW]

 

 

Anyone know if there are statutes in the legalized pot states regarding smoking pot with children in the home? 

 

Because that's really my only issue with the whole bit.  Is anyone held accountable for getting their toddler stoned off of second hand smoke or worse yet, getting my kid stoned because he's over playing with the neighbor kid?  Or is lack of consequence a part of the whole deal?

 

I'm just curious, I'm quite a bit more pro than con, but I haven't heard this part addressed before.

Honestly it's pretty hard to get "Stoned" off second hand smoke, that is one of those myths. But with that said, since it is illegal for kids under 18, I imagine the same sort of punishment would happen if a parent gave a toddler a beer. They would likely goto jail and potentially lose the kid.

 

But I don't know the exact punishments/laws.

[formerly33]

 

One of my closest friends uses pot to focus and keep calm and it's a much easier "fix" and has far fewer side effects than being on any ADD and ADHD medication.  I would rather have a few hits than take advil for a headache any day of the week.

Speaking of which, if we're going to keep marijuana illegal, why not crack down on the pharmaceutical drugs that are far, far worse?

 

Nvm ... crack down on some of those even when we do legalize marijuana. The medical world gets away with armed robbery and mass homicide ... armed with addicting drugs whose only cure is more addicting drugs until someone's on such and such for energy during the day which leads to this because they couldn't sleep at night and then that because they began having mood swings and ... and .... Oh and wait a minute ... what happened to my comfortable savings? And that's a mild example because my mind's drawing a blank, but if you get any deeper it's pretty horrific. And the reasons for some of this prescribed medication ... and what it does to you ....

 

Am I just an idiot? Or does anyone else consider this a valid concern?

[Mike Sixel]

It isn't a question of merits......alcohol has no "merits". Baseball has no "merits". It's a question of the cost of removing freedom and the cost of stopping something that might have relatively mild demerits.

 

I encourage you to read several of the articles about Portugal's decriminalization on line.

[formerly33]

Baseball has no "merits".

Ahem ... I've been through this with my family before. Must I go through it with you as well?

 

On a slightly different note, this discussion has reminded me of this video I saw a while ago. Hopefully I get the right link in there and not The Corries singing "The Vicar and the Frog." Lol.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCUbvOwwfWM

[Willihammer]

 

It isn't a question of merits......alcohol has no "merits". Baseball has no "merits". It's a question of the cost of removing freedom and the cost of stopping something that might have relatively mild demerits.

 

I encourage you to read several of the articles about Portugal's decriminalization on line.

I'm in favor of decriminalization. The poster I quoted referred to drug legalization. This has been referenced elsewhere in the thread and that is a step too far IMO and further than anything Portugal has done. My understanding is Portugal treats marijuana use as a public health problem which is the correct way to think about it IMO.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm in favor of decriminalization. The poster I quoted referred to drug legalization. This has been referenced elsewhere in the thread and that is a step too far IMO and further than anything Portugal has done. My understanding is Portugal treats marijuana use as a public health problem which is the correct way to think about it IMO.

 

Got it, thanks.

 

I'll have to get home to check out the youtube stuff.....blocked at work.

[Craig Arko]

Just be careful with those, especially if you are a first time user.

 

Edibles are much more likely to get you "messed up" then smoking.

I'm already pretty messed up, so the difference should be negligible.

[biggentleben]

 

Somewhere between Reefer Madness and Cheech and Chong, I expect. BTW, I have never used marijuana myself, but if it were decriminalized and had a good delivery method other than smoking (brownies, maybe?) I'd consider it for pain management.

 

Same here. I'm actually considered someone who would benefit greatly from marijuana due to my lingering glaucoma after my baker's dozen eye surgeries. Oh, the irony of being allergic to the smoke of something that could give you comfort...

[biggentleben]

 

Speaking of which, if we're going to keep marijuana illegal, why not crack down on the pharmaceutical drugs that are far, far worse?

 

Nvm ... crack down on some of those even when we do legalize marijuana. The medical world gets away with armed robbery and mass homicide ... armed with addicting drugs whose only cure is more addicting drugs until someone's on such and such for energy during the day which leads to this because they couldn't sleep at night and then that because they began having mood swings and ... and .... Oh and wait a minute ... what happened to my comfortable savings? And that's a mild example because my mind's drawing a blank, but if you get any deeper it's pretty horrific. And the reasons for some of this prescribed medication ... and what it does to you ....

 

Am I just an idiot? Or does anyone else consider this a valid concern?

 

The problem is that there are drug companies who do that, while there are incredible companies that really do want consumers of their products to receive a benefit. Many would consider anti-psychotics one of those areas of medical abuse, but it absolutely has to do with the psychiatrist prescribing the medications. I'm blessed to work with a pair that would rather have people on as little as possible rather than have three-page medication records for anyone with an SPMI.

[formerly33]

 

The problem is that there are drug companies who do that, while there are incredible companies that really do want consumers of their products to receive a benefit. Many would consider anti-psychotics one of those areas of medical abuse, but it absolutely has to do with the psychiatrist prescribing the medications. I'm blessed to work with a pair that would rather have people on as little as possible rather than have three-page medication records for anyone with an SPMI.

Oh, I am by no means opposed to ... well, a lot of prescribed drugs. It just bothers me that some people use the system for no other means than to get rich. And I would never say to do away with the system in its entirety. I was basically trying to point out the irony there is in having illegal recreational drugs when you pause and consider some of the legal pharmaceutical drugs out there.