Aaron Hicks and the warning track

[TheLeviathan]

 

Even if he did misplay the ball, which I am quite skeptical of, it seemed he did it with a plan, not because he was scared of the wall or warning track. In flight he determined he couldn't make the catch so he tried to make a good play in freezing Pedroia, it almost worked.

 

Then he misread where it was going to land.  I'm not sure how that's better.

[twinsnorth49]

Sept 14, 2014 game against the Angels

 

I am pretty sure there are at least one or two others from last summer.

I thought we were talking about this season? He misplayed a lot of things last year but the general consensus must be his defense has improved overall, quite dramatically.

 

I've seen him drop step the wrong way occasionally on hard hit balls over his head but overall I'm not sure substantial enough evidence exists that he has some big issue on hits close to the fence.

 

Fenway is such a goofy place, he hasn't played there much and it likely requires a few go rounds to get a feel for where to be on various balls.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Fenway is such a goofy place, he hasn't played there much and it likely requires a few go rounds to get a feel for where to be on various balls.

 

Right, Fenway is goofy and it caused Hicks to misplay a ball.  He wasn't the first good CF to do so and I doubt he'll be the last.  But it was a misplay and that's ok.

[twinsnorth49]

Right, Fenway is goofy and it caused Hicks to misplay a ball. He wasn't the first good CF to do so and I doubt he'll be the last. But it was a misplay and that's ok.

Yep, agreed.

[drjim]

 

Then he misread where it was going to land.  I'm not sure how that's better.

 

If he actually misplayed the ball (which is debatable) it wouldn't be better in this specific case. But it also wouldn't be an indication of the original point of this post, which is more what I was replying to.

[TheLeviathan]

 

If he actually misplayed the ball (which is debatable) it wouldn't be better in this specific case. But it also wouldn't be an indication of the original point of this post, which is more what I was replying to.

 

It is an indication, it's just the first since he's come back up.  Hicks has had significant difficulty going back on balls and even moreso with balls as they close in on the wall.  Those are naturally more difficult plays but that difficulty has caused concussions concerns more than once.  (Not to mention some ugly wall collisions)

 

We might be able to just chalk this one up to Fenway, but it's something to watch in case a pattern redevelops.

 

[jokin]

 

Other documented incidents? One play doesn't mean a whole lot. If there are several, maybe there's a trend that needs to be addressed.

 

Sounds like someone has missed quite a few Hicks misplays with balls hit  over his head the last 3 seasons...

[LimestoneBaggy]

As usual, I'm late to the party, but after about ten views (and I wish I could see Hick's reaction more in the picture), I think it's a bad read estimate. From my view, he clearly thinks the ball is going to high off the wall, and stops for the deke (which in hindsight, was likely the wrong decision). 

 

The ball appears to be playable, but I would categorize this more in line with unfamiliarity with the park as far as warning track to wall distance in concerned.

 

If I was to guess a bit, I think he tracked the ball to the first step of the warning track, viewed it as going to be high off the wall, and made a judgment call that turned out to be wrong in the moment (he stayed away from the wall far enough to play what he thought was the bounce, and I don't blame him for not knowing where Robinson was). While I would view it as an error/bad judgment/unfamiliarity, I wouldn't lump it in with some of his bad plays from last year. I would agree that he has struggled with the ball hit directly at him (but that's the hardest ball to catch in the outfield).

 

File this one under a whoops, and I think he would agree he misread the ball. 

 

* I haven't looked at the wind levels or direction, nor did I spend too much time looking at the distance of the warning track to wall ratio difference of Fenway.

[JB_Iowa]

 

You should watch where it hits again.  I'm not even sure it hits the wall.

 

And it was a good distance away, but Hicks had time to make that play because of his range.

 

Chief was AT the game.

[JB_Iowa]

 

Sounds like someone has missed quite a few Hicks misplays with balls hit  over his head the last 3 seasons...

 

 

Do we have to rehash the last two seasons

 

The only thing I care about is how he is playing NOW. 

 

The nitpicking is starting to reach astronomical proportions.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Do we have to rehash the last two seasons

 

The only thing I care about is how he is playing NOW. 

 

The nitpicking is starting to reach astronomical proportions.

 

It's nitpicking to say he misplayed the ball?  He misplayed it.  Ok, we don't have to cut him.  But we have seen some issues in the past so it's worth watching.

 

It's great that Chief was at the game - that replay, particularly the second and third shots of it, make it clear that the ball landed on the ground.  Not hit the wall.  Hicks clearly played it like it was going to hit the wall.

 

Thus, he misplayed it.  It's not nitpicking and your post was completely unnecessary.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Chief was AT the game.

Which always counts for a little something

[JB_Iowa]

 

It's nitpicking to say he misplayed the ball?  He misplayed it.  Ok, we don't have to cut him.  But we have seen some issues in the past so it's worth watching.

 

It's great that Chief was at the game - that replay, particularly the second and third shots of it, make it clear that the ball landed on the ground.  Not hit the wall.  Hicks clearly played it like it was going to hit the wall.

 

Thus, he misplayed it.  It's not nitpicking and your post was completely unnecessary.

 

 

This is one of my biggest irritations with TD.  ALL of the posters who are so d*mn sure that they are right without allowing for the possibility that someone else is right or observed something different.

 

Chief undoubtedly had a different angle.  Perhaps the video you keep watching was a bad angle or somewhat misrepresented the play.

 

I'm not saying he didn't misplay it.  I am saying OPEN UP THE MIND and allow for the possibility that it didn't proceed exactly as you insist.

[Craig Arko]

 

I am saying OPEN UP THE MIND and allow for the possibility that it didn't proceed exactly as you insist.

You truly are an optimist. Brava.

[Willihammer]

The other thing I forgot to mention about the radio broadcast is that, according to Gladden, after the play Hicks displayed visible disappointment that he did not catch the ball, which would seem to indicate Hicks himself thought it was catchable. Perhaps Chief can confirm/deny since he was at the game.

[70charger]

 

This is one of my biggest irritations with TD.  ALL of the posters who are so d*mn sure that they are right without allowing for the possibility that someone else is right or observed something different.

 

This is absolutely, 100% correct.

[jimmer]

 

This is one of my biggest irritations with TD.  ALL of the posters who are so d*mn sure that they are right without allowing for the possibility that someone else is right or observed something different.

 

 

Hardly an issue on TD alone.  Pretty much any board this is the case and, in fact, quite often in the real world too.  It's just more noticeable and forceful being able to do it with anonymity.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I think Chief was looking down into his scorebook and writing "E-8, no RBI" by that time

[jimmer]

 

I think Chief was looking down into his scorebook and writing "E-8, no RBI" by that time

or he was in the bathroom :-)

[TheLeviathan]

 

Chief undoubtedly had a different angle.  Perhaps the video you keep watching was a bad angle or somewhat misrepresented the play.

 

I'm not saying he didn't misplay it.  I am saying OPEN UP THE MIND and allow for the possibility that it didn't proceed exactly as you insist.

 

The video has three angles and is in the first post on this thread.  Watch it.

 

It's not really a matter of opinion.  The ball bounced on the warning track, something difficult to see at first glance without multiple viewings.  You want to disagree about how he played the ball...fine.  But the ball hit the wall on the bounce, not on the fly.

 

That's just a fact.  I'm willing to have an open mind about why he misplayed it (Fenway is kooky, don't blame the kid for hesitation for that), but if you're going to disagree with a fact I'm not sure you have much ground to stand on.

[bird]

 

Chief was AT the game.

 

 

All the more reason to watch a replay. Because beer.

[TheLeviathan]

 

All the more reason to watch a replay. Because beer.

 

Plus I'm sure there was some damn kid on his cellphone blocking his view.  Don't forget that.

[Squirrel]

 

The video has three angles and is in the first post on this thread.  Watch it.

 

It's not really a matter of opinion.  The ball bounced on the warning track, something difficult to see at first glance without multiple viewings.  You want to disagree about how he played the ball...fine.  But the ball hit the wall on the bounce, not on the fly.

 

That's just a fact.  I'm willing to have an open mind about why he misplayed it (Fenway is kooky, don't blame the kid for hesitation for that), but if you're going to disagree with a fact I'm not sure you have much ground to stand on.

For me, I'm most concerned about this year. Is he playing better THIS year? How many bad routes, misplays has he had THIS year? We all know how bad he was the past two years. Is this ONE play an indicator that he hasn't turned any corner or improved from previous years? Does this one play, misplay or not, prove that? It seems debatable it was a misplay … some say yes, some say no … so, we are not all in agreement on that. Perhaps both sides of this can give a little bit of a benefit of the doubt and agree to disagree or at least admit the other may have a point to consider. But are you saying that you think Hicks is the same Hicks as last year based on this? Or are there other plays this year that maybe, just maybe, prove otherwise? I will wait until we are further into the season to make any such suppositions, and it's okay that you are certain now. But others aren't … so let's just back away and stop bristling at one another.

 

Edit: despite quoting Levi in the post, I was making a general statement to all … not just him.

[twinsnorth49]

Mod note:

 

Let's stick to the topic and cut out the personal attacks please. If it continues next step will be infractions..........we don't want that.......right?

[TheLeviathan]

 

But are you saying that you think Hicks is the same Hicks as last year based on this? Or are there other plays this year that maybe, just maybe, prove otherwise? I will wait until we are further into the season to make any such suppositions, and it's okay that you are certain now. But others aren't … so let's just back away and stop bristling at one another.

 

I've made it very clear, in multiple posts in fact!, that I don't think this derails his progress this year.  drjim and I had a very pleasant back and forth from different angles that ended in a near agreement.  It wasn't a great play, but it's also nothing to panic over.  

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.  That seems to be where the bristling starts.

[Squirrel]

 

I've made it very clear, in multiple posts in fact!, that I don't think this derails his progress this year.  drjim and I had a very pleasant back and forth from different angles that ended in a near agreement.  It wasn't a great play, but it's also nothing to panic over.  

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.  That seems to be where the bristling starts.

Agreed. But everyone doesn't seem to agree even after viewing this one play. You might see it one way very clearly and think 'fact,' and that's okay … but someone else may not, after viewing the same play. So I'm just asking everyone to step back a bit … and keep to topic, now that I've done my share to derail it.

[Jham]

I'm fine with the play.  That ball was hit awfully hard to a gap and slicing.  My understanding is that the ball has been dying in the cold air which made that split second judgement about where it was going to hit off the wall even more difficult.  Hick's only play on the ball would have been to careen into the wall at an awkward angle.  I believe Torii Hunter shattered his ankle doing that in the other awkward Fenway corner a decade ago.  I don't think it was a misplay, just poor execution on the throw back in.  There's a difference between taking the conservative play and an actual misplay.  Kirby Puckett won gold gloves without ever diving headfirst for a ball in front of him.  Did he misplay balls because he didn't dive, or did he simply make conservative decisions?  

[TheLeviathan]

I understand the tone you are seeking, but if anyone disagrees about where the balls lands I encourage them to watch the video and how the ball bounces.  It's not an argument prop, it's just the way things happened.

 

The retort that someone at the game would have been better at seeing this than two slow motion replays defies my TV watching experiences.  Especially given there are about 15 people sitting anywhere close enough to see that up close.

 

And none of them look old enough or ornery enough to be our Chief.

[Willihammer]

The video has three angles and is in the first post on this thread.  Watch it.

 

It's not really a matter of opinion.  The ball bounced on the warning track, something difficult to see at first glance without multiple viewings.  You want to disagree about how he played the ball...fine.  But the ball hit the wall on the bounce, not on the fly.

This was also corroborated by Provus on the radio.

 

I myself thought it hit the base of the wall but after re-watching and listening to the Twins broadcast again, it does appear to have hit the ground first.

[Squirrel]

Back on topic, please. Hicks. Misplay or not?