Molitor's decisions

[DaveW]

I would have preferred to see Perkins out there but it's one game. If Molitor makes that same move in ten straight similar situations, then I'll start to get irritated about it.

Twins are playing on the road, against their rival and best team in the division, they just had an off day and are in extra innings. How on earth do you not bring in Perkins? It really defies logic.

[USAFChief]

Twins are playing on the road, against their rival and best team in the division, they just had an off day and are in extra innings. How on earth do you not bring in Perkins? It really defies logic.

When should he have brought in Perkins?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Twins are playing on the road, against their rival and best team in the division, they just had an off day and are in extra innings. How on earth do you not bring in Perkins? It really defies logic.

I think "defies logic" is a bit much. Pressly isn't exactly a pitching machine. While I personally would have considered bringing in Perkins - though I may have saved him for the 11th inning - I can't fault Molitor too much for going with Ryan.

[Willihammer]

When should he have brought in Perkins?

With 9-1-2 due up in the 8th and Gibson done for the night I think he should have gotten loose then and been asked to go 2 IP.

 

At the worst, you put him in after Boyer.

 

You don't have your best reliever 3+ down the docket in a tie game. Nothing sucks more than losing a close game and your best reliever didn't even make an appearance.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm confident Molitor will learn from this and if presented with a similar situation make a better decision.

Molitor needs to "learn" that Glen Perkins is his best relief pitcher?

 

I really don't understand the reluctance of some to admit that Molitor is likely more or less average (tactically) as a MLB manager.  (Admittedly a hair better than Gardenhire in that regard, but he's not pushing any envelopes.)

[Otto von Ballpark]

And it's not even a "setup men are comparable to the closer anyway" situation, unless you are looking at an extremely small recent sample (and ignoring peripherals).  Perkins is head and shoulders above the rest of this pen.

[USAFChief]

With 9-1-2 due up in the 8th and Gibson done for the night I think he should have gotten loose then and been asked to go 2 IP.At the worst, you put him in after Boyer.You don't have your best reliever 3+ down the docket in a tie game. Nothing sucks more than losing a close game and your best reliever didn't even make an appearance.

If you think he should have started the 8th, I understand that. I don't agree, but I understand the logic: He's the Twins best reliever and should be the first option in a tie game.

 

On the other hand, an argument he should have started the 10th seems to me pretty much 20 20 hindsight..."he should be the second option because the first one worked, and the chosen second one didnt."

[USAFChief]

And it's not even a "setup men are comparable to the closer anyway" situation, unless you are looking at an extremely small recent sample (and ignoring peripherals).  Perkins is head and shoulders above the rest of this pen.

As I see it, the problem is Molitor's available choices, not his use of them.

 

Perkins can't pitch every high leverage inning after the 7th.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Molitor needs to "learn" that Glen Perkins is his best relief pitcher?

 

I really don't understand the reluctance of some to admit that Molitor is likely more or less average (tactically) as a MLB manager.  (Admittedly a hair better than Gardenhire in that regard, but he's not pushing any envelopes.)

No, just when the best time to use him is depending on the situation.

 

I guess the reluctance for some comes from the fact he's been a MLB manager for 33 games, that's all really.

[Willihammer]

As I see it, the problem is Molitor's available choices, not his use of them.

 

Perkins can't pitch every high leverage inning after the 7th.

I can sympathize with a manager when everything goes to **** in the middle of an inning or when your best reliever has pitched on back to back days, etc. Yesterday was not that. It was pretty much a ready-made scenario to get your best reliever warm and get him in the game.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Perkins can't pitch every high leverage inning after the 7th.

No one is asking him to do that.  I don't know why you would even bring that up, after Perkins didn't pitch on Sunday and had an off day Monday.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I guess the reluctance for some comes from the fact he's been a MLB manager for 33 games, that's all really.

No prob.  Personally, I assume that most any new manager will probably operate by present-day MLB manager tactical standards until they show otherwise.  And examples of him doing so are probably just that, rather than him waiting or not yet learning to flex his innovative power.

[DaveW]

 

I think "defies logic" is a bit much. Pressly isn't exactly a pitching machine. While I personally would have considered bringing in Perkins - though I may have saved him for the 11th inning - I can't fault Molitor too much for going with Ryan.

You meant the 11th inning that never came? How did that work out for Molitor again?

[DaveW]

 

When should he have brought in Perkins?

Either the 9th or 10th with the expectation that he goes two innings regardless. Instead, you waste a perfectly rested Glen Perkins and lose a game that the Twins really needed to win. This team is not good enough to lose games where Gibson throws a gem like he did.

The good news is with Nolasco on the mound today, Perkins will get even one more day of rest since it will be 8-2 after 3 innings anyways! Gotta make sure Perkins is fresh for a "save scenario" and a save scenario only.

[DaveW]

Also why is Escobar getting starts in LF? Escobar is a util inf, he should not be getting starts in the corner OF, it makes zero sense.

 

Rosario, who is part of the future of this club is currently on the major league roster, he should be getting those starts day in and day out, not Escobar who is a back up INF and likely only sticks around for another year or two.

 

Rosario has gotten a hit in 4 of his 5 games, and had 2 in his 2nd to last game, so it's not exactly like he has struggled and hit himself out of the lineup. Even MORE dumbfounding is the fact that Rosario is a lefty, and the Tigers had a righty on the mound. Heck, even GARDY wouldn't make that mistake.

[Mike Sixel]

I agree, Rosario should be in a corner position every single day he is in MN. But, for some reason, this team doesn't do that (see Santana, Danny, 2014).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Also why is Escobar getting starts in LF? Escobar is a util inf, he should not be getting starts in the corner OF, it makes zero sense.

At first, I got it -- get Escobar some reps, especially as he was beginning to hit at the time.

 

But he's been the regular LF for almost two weeks now, dating back even before Arcia's injury.  And as you say, last night it made zero sense with Rosario available, after an off day, and vs a RHP (with a LHP due to start tonight).

[DaveW]

 

I agree, Rosario should be in a corner position every single day he is in MN. But, for some reason, this team doesn't do that (see Santana, Danny, 2014).

Exactly, which is why Molitor is basically Gardy version 2.0 (which is fine, as I thought Gardy was a solid manager overall)

 

My main thing is when they fired Gardy is that they needed to bring in someone with a totally different approach, not just bring in more of the same. If that was the plan, I much would have preferred they gave Gardy one more year with some actual talent on the roster. Don't get me wrong, I like Molitor and hope he succeeeds, I just haven't seen him doing anything "different" and when you have a team that loses 90+ games a year at somepoint you need to do something different. The least of which is having your best players play in important games: i.e. Perkins, and Rosario over Escobar.

[USAFChief]

No one is asking him to do that. I don't know why you would even bring that up, after Perkins didn't pitch on Sunday and had an off day Monday.

because had Perkins pitched the 8th, I don't see what difference it makes, not just in this game but long term.

 

I can understand the argument for Perk to pitch bottom 8. I think that argument has some merit, but it's not cut and dried, IMO. The bigger issue is, that argument misses the bigger picture.

[USAFChief]

I do agree Rosario should be in left. That's puzzling.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

because had Perkins pitched the 8th, I don't see what difference it makes, not just in this game but long term.

You don't see what difference it might make, using your best relief pitcher before using Ryan Pressly?

 

If Perkins can go 2 innings, and Boyer contributes his same 2 innings, you don't need the likes of Pressly until the 12th inning.  (And that's not considering the hot hand of Thompson either.)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

You meant the 11th inning that never came? How did that work out for Molitor again?

Badly but the thinking behind it isn't nearly as bad as you'd like to paint it.

 

Ryan Pressly has a career OPS against of .638 versus righties. He was due to face R/L/R/R that inning, starting with the nine spot in the order.

 

If he gets through the inning, you have Perkins against the middle of the Detroit lineup (3-5 spots), starting with Miguel Cabrera.

 

Sometimes baseball just doesn't work out even when you go with the numbers.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Badly but the thinking behind it isn't nearly as bad as you'd like to paint it.

 

Ryan Pressly has a career OPS against of .638 versus righties. He was due to face R/L/R/R that inning, starting with the nine spot in the order.

 

If he gets through the inning, you have Perkins against the middle of the Detroit lineup (3-5 spots), starting with Miguel Cabrera.

 

Sometimes baseball just doesn't work out even when you go with the numbers.

Detroit's nine spot hitter is sporting a .349 AVG.

 

That lefty due up second in the 10th inning was the only lefty hitter in the Detroit lineup.  And he stroked a 2B off Pressly and scored the winning run.

 

And once someone reached base (2nd base no less, so no DP opportunity), 3 hitter Cabrera was due to hit that inning anyway (with a runner in scoring position, as it worked out).

 

Plus, in a tie game after 2 days rest, you have to be thinking multiple innings for Perkins.  Do you want him facing 9-1-2-3-4-5 and likely 6 if someone reaches base, including the .349 AVG nine hitter and lefty leadoff batter, or 3-4-5-6-7-8 with all RHB including the backup infielder and catcher?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Honest question: was Perkins warming up last night, and when?

 

Presumably he was getting loose in the bottom of the 8th / top of the 9th (and/or the top of the 10th) in case we took a lead.

 

If he's already loose/warm, you might as well use him first, right?

[twinsnorth49]

 

No prob.  Personally, I assume that most any new manager will probably operate by present-day MLB manager tactical standards until they show otherwise.  And examples of him doing so are probably just that, rather than him waiting or not yet learning to flex his innovative power.

That's cool, personally I think the innovative power and tactical standards of present day MLB managers is a bit overstated in how it effects the outcomes of most games. I don't see Molitor as some great innovator but I don't see him as a dinosaur either, he strikes me as a guy who is at least open to change and willing to evolve.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

No patience for testing a young reliever with an important inning in mid-May? 

 

Tough crowd to please.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

That's cool, personally I think the innovative power and tactical standards of present day MLB managers is a bit overstated in how it effects the outcomes of most games. I don't see Molitor as some great innovator but I don't see him as a dinosaur either, he strikes me as a guy who is at least open to change and willing to evolve.

Agreed.  And I'm not trying to criticize Molitor, who indeed is a modest upgrade over Gardenhire in these regards (liked the earlier Perkins 8th inning use) -- just tempering expectations that we're going to see much evidence of this upgrade in lineups, pitcher usage, roster construction, etc.  I think that part of the package is probably fairly set for Molitor or any MLB manager.

 

The place for upgrades is shifts, baserunning, specific player tweaking/coaching, and perhaps clubhouse attitude/demeanor, especially after 4 losing seasons.

[Linus]

When to use Perkins is open to debate but the notion that you pitch him two innings is not sound.  He's the closer and you might have to use him three days in a row - the other yahoos can get a day off as there are several to choose from.  Had the Twins scored a run in the 10th and then Perk closed it out, we would all be lauding Molly for keeping his cool and saving his closer for when it counted.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

No patience for testing a young reliever with an important inning in mid-May?

There are important innings, and then there are IMPORTANT INNINGS.  A tie game on the road going into extra innings (against the division leader) is the latter, I think.  The nature of it being a tie and in extra innings basically meant that there was no safety net (or at least, much less than your average 6th-8th inning relief appearance) -- you don't want to pull a guy after just 1 or 2 batters.

 

Previously this year, Molitor had brought in Pressly 3 of 4 times with a 5+ run lead/deficit.  The other appearance was trailing by 1 run in the 9th -- that's not a bad spot to test him.

 

Twice Pressly has been brought in during the 4th and 5th innings this year -- I think Molitor was looking at him as a long man last night, which isn't a bad thing to have, but I'd rather use my rested relief ace first.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

When to use Perkins is open to debate but the notion that you pitch him two innings is not sound.  He's the closer and you might have to use him three days in a row - the other yahoos can get a day off as there are several to choose from.  

No, no, no.  You don't limit a guy with the expectation that his usage will be critical in the next two games.  The Twins had one game out of their previous 5 where the closer was even necessary.

 

(That said, you don't FORCE him to pitch two innings -- if he scuffles a bit, you can pull him after one.  But if he is on, you let him pitch two, and deal with the next two games as needed.)