Gregg Zaun Revelations of Orioles Culture

[Seth Stohs]

Former, long-time big league catcher Gregg Zaun recently did an interview in which he discussed how Orioles' veterans, including Cal Ripken, Brady Anderson and others treated him (and presumably others). He talked about both physical and mental bullying kept him in line. 

 

It's not surprising to read all of these stories and accounts because back in the day, many just thought it was OK. I think it's disgusting. Even worse, Zaun basically said he wishes more of that would be in today's game. Uggh!

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Yup. Those days are thankfully numbered.

 

Zaun is still living in 1995 but today's rookies are not.

[nicksaviking]

Thankfully Zaun won't get his wish, those days are over.

 

Seems to me having to "defer" to veterans who beat and humiliate young players, and who apparently throw their trash on the floor of the team plane, only teaches youngsters how to be immature frat boys.

 

The college senior who hits on HS girls and brings beer to HS parties while harassing the nerds might seem pretty cool to the HS jocks who idol worship him. That guy looks like a complete loser to everyone else.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised, MLB morls and codes are preposterous and stupid on many, many levels. This is one they share with most sports though, not that it's much of a defense.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised, MLB morls and codes are preposterous and stupid on many, many levels. This is one they share with most sports though, not that it's much of a defense.

Disagree. This stuff is being phased out, I've gotta think.

 

I'm not sure if a Twins top prospect was grabbed from the field, beaten in the ribs, and carried into the trainers room and taped down to the table, that Ryan and the Pohlads would have a good belly laugh over this.

[Jham]

Horrible.  I was particularly disturbed that the starting catcher would be asked to be involved with bullying and intimidating the young back-up presumably gunning for his spot and playing time (money).  I didn't read that story as teaching team roles, I read it as veterans protecting their jobs, friends, and playing time.  It almost puts a taint on Ripken's streak.  Especially since it is highly unlikely that he faced any bullying at all with his MLB pedigree.  

For every player like Zaun who claims he was helped by bullying, I wonder how many other young players lose even a touch of their competitive edge at a time in their careers where organizations are making decisions about their futures.  I wonder how many stood up to the vets and were cut, held back, sent down, or given the stigma of "poor locker room guys."  

*Incidentally, not necessarily a new story.  http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2005-02-15/sports/0502150151_1_cal-ripken-ripken-career-steroids

[gunnarthor]

I think the Twins rookie hazing has been pretty minor - dressing them up in costumes, run errands for the vets, etc.  I remember reading articles about how well Kirby dealt with young guys coming up, for instance.  He'd buy them suits, take them to dinner but also made sure they used the stipends to tip the clubhouse guys, stuff like that.

[USAFChief]

Zaun sure doesn't seem upset. Just the opposite, in fact.

[ashbury]

Gentle hazing can have a place in team-building.    "[P]hysical abuse and public humiliation," as the article author characterized it, not so much.

 

Zaun: "Phil Regan, the manager of the Baltimore Orioles, he did not care, because he knew that what those guys were doing was ‘educating me."    Ah, the Phil Regan who had a significantly worse W-L record in his one season of managin' than the gentlemen who preceded and succeeded him.    Got it.    Not as easy vulturing wins when you're not in a bullpen.

[Shane Wahl]

Not sure how anyone on earth could possibly defend this kind of behavior. General character issues have been well-known with Ripken for a long time, but this is pretty barbaric.

[nicksaviking]

Zaun sure doesn't seem upset. Just the opposite, in fact.

 

Right, which is what would ensure this type of behavior would continue if outside influence didn't intervene.

 

It's rediculsously stupid and immature stuff and thankfully society as a whole is telling them to grow up, but playing armchair psychiatrist, it seems pretty clear why this stuff is so popular among athletes.  These guys go straight from HS or college into their professional careers not knowing how people in actual professional careers carry about their business.  If they were never exposed to any kind of behavior outside of what they learned in the HS locker rooms or frat houses, they probably have no clue that there are better opperating models to use.

 

Also, on a sexist note, I would imagine plenty of businesses may devolve into this type of non-sense if they didn't have any female coworkers that would ecourage civilized behavior.

[TheLeviathan]

Right, which is what would ensure this type of behavior would continue if outside influence didn't intervene.

 

 

Exactly and well put.  Part of why this "let them police themselves" and "locker rooms are a different culture" nonsense NEED pushback is because they insulate themselves from the outside.  They start to think the behavior is not only acceptable but necessary when that couldn't be any farther from the truth.

[gunnarthor]

Right, which is what would ensure this type of behavior would continue if outside influence didn't intervene.

 

It's rediculsously stupid and immature stuff and thankfully society as a whole is telling them to grow up, but playing armchair psychiatrist, it seems pretty clear why this stuff is so popular among athletes.  These guys go straight from HS or college into their professional careers not knowing how people in actual professional careers carry about their business.  If they were never exposed to any kind of behavior outside of what they learned in the HS locker rooms or frat houses, they probably have no clue that there are better opperating models to use.

 

Also, on a sexist note, I would imagine plenty of businesses may devolve into this type of non-sense if they didn't have any female coworkers that would ecourage civilized behavior.

I wonder how much of stuff like this really needs outside forces or is more a change simply by generation of different players and what is acceptable to them.  If you think about the Richie Incognito stuff, it was pretty clear that his behavior was pretty normal for the NFL even for today but the hazing level in all sports (including the NFL) seems to be a lot less now.