Berardino: Twins won bidding for Korean LHP Yang

[tobi0040]

Any idea how much this signing will cost and what the post fee was?

[drock2190]

World series here we come!!!

[Jeremy Nygaard]

Any idea how much this signing will cost and what the post fee was?

 

Word out of Korea is that the bid came in lower than expected. My wild guess is that it's probably similar to the $2m bid the Padres won on their Korean guy.

 

My even wilder guess is that the total commitment isn't over $10m. 

 

Again, both figures are purely speculative and based on nothing more than conjecture.

[tobi0040]

Word out of Korea is that the bid came in lower than expected. My wild guess is that it's probably similar to the $2m bid the Padres won on their Korean guy.

 

My even wilder guess is that the total commitment isn't over $10m. 

 

Again, both figures are purely speculative and based on nothing more than conjecture.

 

If we are looking at a $10M commitment and he has a snowballs chance at a #3 starter, great risk/reward.  Because we spent $12M on Pelfrey who had no shot.

 

I agree with the sentiment, I sure hope this is our lotto ticket signing and not our top target.

[jokin]

Not to make Levi's point for him; but no reason to criticize the Twins for not making a big splash when 1) they just signed Yang, who profiles as a mid rotation starter with the potential to be better (not unlike Hughes and Nolasco) and 2) it's very early in the off season (maybe ten FAs signings so far).  There's plenty of other threads for discussion the Twins lack of big freeagent acquisitions. 

 

Mid-rotation starter with potential to be better? You aren't reading the scouting reports that I'm reading. This "splash" has the chance to barely make a ripple.

 

Ryan's pattern since his return was to beat the market to the punch on his few selected mid-tier FAs who are "willing to come here"  by the beginning of December, and then closing up shop and taking the rest of the winter off. 

[jokin]

Maybe because they don't see LOOGY as Yang's ceiling and they are more interested in seeing what his role is in 2016 and beyond than what it is in April 2015?

 

That still doesn't explain why you'd go to all this bother in using him for replacing Duensing this year. 

[Steven Buhr]

Word out of Korea is that the bid came in lower than expected. My wild guess is that it's probably similar to the $2m bid the Padres won on their Korean guy.

 

My even wilder guess is that the total commitment isn't over $10m. 

 

Again, both figures are purely speculative and based on nothing more than conjecture.

That's what I was expecting, as well.

 

Keep in mind, for all the disappointment we had regarding Nishioka, the Twins' original commitment to him was something like $15 million, of which $5 mil was the posting fee. And the deal ended up costing the Twins less money when they negotiated a buy out of the final year of the contract.

 

I'll be pretty surprised if the total money for Yang ended up more than what the Twins dumped in to Nishioka.

 

The true "cost" of Nishioka was the corresponding trading of JJ Hardy for... well... nothing at all, really.

 

As long as the Twins don't do something similarly silly (say, trading away a May/Gibson/Meyer for virtually nothing in return) just because they add Yang, then this should be a pretty reasonable financial risk.

[jorgenswest]

Yang is 6 months younger than Kyle Gibson. They have an opportunity to get a piece for the future rather than a patch for 2015.

[jay]

That still doesn't explain why you'd go to all this bother in using him for replacing Duensing this year.

All what bother?? Submitting a bid and negotiating a contract? A 40 man roster spot?

 

The scouting reports are all over the board, but he's still a young lefty who throws in the mid-90s. This seems like a pretty minimal bother...

[jokin]

That's what I was expecting, as well.

 

Keep in mind, for all the disappointment we had regarding Nishioka, the Twins' original commitment to him was something like $15 million, of which $5 mil was the posting fee. And the deal ended up costing the Twins less money when they negotiated a buy out of the final year of the contract.

 

I'll be pretty surprised if the total money for Yang ended up more than what the Twins dumped in to Nishioka.

 

The true "cost" of Nishioka was the corresponding trading of JJ Hardy for... well... nothing at all, really.

 

As long as the Twins don't do something similarly silly (say, trading away a May/Gibson/Meyer for virtually nothing in return) just because they add Yang, then this should be a pretty reasonable financial risk.

 

Good summation.And good point, they haven't done anything stupid with their prospects, yet.  I'm all for taking a stab at a longshot coming in, I just hope this isn't the Nishi/Correia/Nolasco opening "big splash" move.

[Steven Buhr]

That still doesn't explain why you'd go to all this bother in using him for replacing Duensing this year. 

What "bother"? They have scouts in Asia. They calculated a bid and submitted it. Now they negotiate with an agent. That's all kind of what front offices do for any potential acquisition, isn't it? I don't see "all this bother."

 

And the "why," as I said, is that they see potential in a 26 year old who's had success in what I've seen described in the past as a AAA+ level professional baseball league. Sure, there are differing scouting opinions on the guy... just as you'll find on pretty much any player who has not yet established himself as a MLB pitcher.

 

You "bother," not because he may replace Duensing as a LOOGY in 2015, but because even if that's his role in 2015, you feel he has the potential to be a solid rotation contributor for a contending team in 2016+ 

[shs_59]

Should of cost at least 3 million to win the BID

 

My guess is Twins will offer him a 3 yr deal, (hopefully a 2 yr tho)  at about 3-4 Milion per year..

 

so i could see 3 yrs and 9 million.

 

I hope the Twins see him as Duensing's replacement with a 93-  94 MPH fastball , rather than a no. #3 starter, he isn't going to be that in the Majors.

 

Like the move if Twins see him as 7th, inning guy  / potential late inning lefty, and not a no. 3 starter....

at best he's a no.4 starter or a 5 which the Twins have countless of already.

[Steven Buhr]

Good summation.And good point, they haven't done anything stupid with their prospects, yet.  I'm all for taking a stab at a longshot coming in, I just hope this isn't the Nishi/Correia/Nolasco opening "big splash" move.

Totally agree. This should not be considered a big splash move, but rather a reasoned, calculated, if somewhat risky, investment in the future.

 

That said, I'm not sure I really expect a big splash move out of the Twins this offseason.

[jokin]

All what bother?? Submitting a bid and negotiating a contract? A 40 man roster spot?

 

The scouting reports are all over the board, but he's still a young lefty who throws in the mid-90s. This seems like a pretty minimal bother...

 

Throws in the mid-90s?  Are you willing to stake money on that claim after admitting that the scouting reports are all over the board, or is it just wishful thinking?  He sure seems to profile like a lotto pick, and now Jeremy thinks he might be bound for a Duensing role.  Ryan's specialty is finding a bushel-full of effective recycled RPs for the league minimum.  They had to go through a lengthy process to determine how much a fair bidding amount was, and now they have to begin what likely will be lengthy negotiations and determine if what they think he's worth in cost and years is what he and his agent think he's worth, so yeah, there's a bother factor.

[Steven Buhr]

Should of cost at least 3 million to win the BID

 

My guess is Twins will offer him a 3 yr deal, (hopefully a 2 yr tho)  at about 3-4 Milion per year..

 

so i could see 3 yrs and 9 million.

 

I hope the Twins see him as Duensing's replacement with a 93-  94 MPH fastball , rather than a no. #3 starter, he isn't going to be that in the Majors.

 

Like the move if Twins see him as 7th, inning guy  / potential late inning lefty, and not a no. 3 starter....

at best he's a no.4 starter or a 5 which the Twins have countless of already.

I really do not think the Twins are looking at him as purely a bullpen arm down the road. As others have said, if that's all they want, there are plenty of them available elsewhere. The Twins do not generally pay $3 million a year for multiple years for mid-inning relievers - nor should they.

 

My guess is they see in Yang the potential to be a lefty with Gibson/May level potential as a starter over the next few years. If I'm right, I would expect them to want to lock him up for at least 3 years, preferably with a team option after that.

[brvama]

What "bother"? They have scouts in Asia. They calculated a bid and submitted it. Now they negotiate with an agent. That's all kind of what front offices do for any potential acquisition, isn't it? I don't see "all this bother."

 

And the "why," as I said, is that they see potential in a 26 year old who's had success in what I've seen described in the past as a AAA+ level professional baseball league. Sure, there are differing scouting opinions on the guy... just as you'll find on pretty much any player who has not yet established himself as a MLB pitcher.

 

You "bother," not because he may replace Duensing as a LOOGY in 2015, but because even if that's his role in 2015, you feel he has the potential to be a solid rotation contributor for a contending team in 2016+

 

My thoughts exactly. Apparently, the scouts saw something liked and the $$ aren't much. Low risk, high reward type of transaction. I do like the youth angle - almost like a Draft 5 move. Plus, if I'm correct, he has options available to help with his development and really his evaluation.

 

While I am neutral on him with plenty of questions, I do like the action taken.

[jokin]

What "bother"? They have scouts in Asia. They calculated a bid and submitted it. Now they negotiate with an agent. That's all kind of what front offices do for any potential acquisition, isn't it? I don't see "all this bother."

 

And the "why," as I said, is that they see potential in a 26 year old who's had success in what I've seen described in the past as a AAA+ level professional baseball league. Sure, there are differing scouting opinions on the guy... just as you'll find on pretty much any player who has not yet established himself as a MLB pitcher.

 

You "bother," not because he may replace Duensing as a LOOGY in 2015, but because even if that's his role in 2015, you feel he has the potential to be a solid rotation contributor for a contending team in 2016+ 

 

I think since Korea has played a feeder-role for its better players to head to AAA-level Japan, thus, the KBL is likely closer to a AA league.  So essentially, this is a lotto ticket on a guy in AA+ who turns 27 in March.  It could click, I hope it does,  but I'm wondering why no one can find an article from an evaluator who is providing more praise?

[shs_59]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fllI16rKtU4

 

 

 

here seems to be some of the little YOUTUBE i can find of the lefty.

[jokin]

Totally agree. This should not be considered a big splash move, but rather a reasoned, calculated, if somewhat risky, investment in the future.

 

That said, I'm not sure I really expect a big splash move out of the Twins this offseason.

 

And that might very well be the sad truth, and what I've been saying all along as we started this conversation.  The awful rotation and hole in the OF might very well not be significantly addressed.

[Lonestar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fllI16rKtU4

 

 

 

here seems to be some of the little YOUTUBE i can find of the lefty.

If the radar gun is right, he's hitting 91.4 mph. 

[maxisagod]

To %@#% with the Twins. They never sign any of these 22-26 year Cuban players, they need get on board with acquiring international talent, its not like these guys count against the Twins international singing allotment. 

What?  They signed a 26 year old player from Korea in a position of need? ... To $#@!$ with the Twins! What are they doing?! 

 

On a far less sarcastic note.  The dollars will tell the story.  A 90's fastball, even a low 90's fastball on a lefty is good thing, a great slider he doesn't over use is a good thing, and being 26-27 on a rebuilding team is a good fit. People could and will comparing him to some of the top free agent pitchers on the market, but why not compare him to all the LHP in our system, especially the ones The Twins just left off their 40 man roster? When comparing him to some of the other lefties the twins have used over the past 2 years, it's seems like their ceiling (#5 starter, spot starter, Loggy) is his middle ground, where his ceiling might be much higher. 

[Jeremy Nygaard]

That still doesn't explain why you'd go to all this bother in using him for replacing Duensing this year. 

 

Duensing is a non-tender candidate and at a nearly $3m projected salary, I can see why. Aaron Thompson, Logan Darnell, Caleb Thielbar and maybe Tommy Milone would be candidates to fill that role. I don't consider this to be "a lot of trouble" and I don't think move was made with the idea of simply replacing Duensing. I just think that it might be where Yang ends up this year. At 26, there's still projection there and that's a risk I'd gladly take. Maybe the Twins send him to AAA to start the year. I wouldn't have a problem with that either. 

[JB_Iowa]

Albers on Yang:

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2014/11/22/twinsights-andrew-albers-breaks-fellow-kbo-lefty-hyeon-jong-yang/

 

 

Berardino is all over this.

[twinscowboysbulls]

Throws 89-92....

[jokin]

Duensing is a non-tender candidate and at a nearly $3m projected salary, I can see why. Aaron Thompson, Logan Darnell, Caleb Thielbar and maybe Tommy Milone would be candidates to fill that role. I don't consider this to be "a lot of trouble" and I don't think move was made with the idea of simply replacing Duensing. I just think that it might be where Yang ends up this year. At 26, there's still projection there and that's a risk I'd gladly take. Maybe the Twins send him to AAA to start the year. I wouldn't have a problem with that either. 

 

Duensing getting non-tendered versus taking on his possible $3M is likely a good move. Obviously, it would cost a lot more if Yang is only a pitcher good enough to fill that 3rd-4th option middle relief role.  And as in the case of Nishi, there is a cultural and language difference, that may or may not play out well in realizing his ceiling.  The articles I've read suggest that where Yang's not likely to improve from where he's at right now, and that the stuff he throws works on the AA-level in Korea, but is more problematic against major leaguers.

 

Here's an interesting chart of Yang and his 2014 victory-leader peers in Korea. 

 

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/leader.cgi?type=pitch&id=867da834

 

 

There's Yang, Kim and 4 AAA refugees from the US.  Comparing all of the stats. I'm wondering why they didn't go after 29 year old Rick van den Hurk (3.18 ERA/10.6 K*9/2.7 BB*9), or, 28-year-old Travis Banwart., who went 9-1 in 11 starts, with better control and WHIP and an ERA of 3.10 versus 4.25 ERA for Yang.

[jokin]

Albers on Yang:

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2014/11/22/twinsights-andrew-albers-breaks-fellow-kbo-lefty-hyeon-jong-yang/

 

 

Berardino is all over this.

 

That'a some really good stuff, courtesy of old friend Andrew Albers, as well as from Amzin' Mike Berardino:

 

 

Albers: “He did get swings and misses, but guys are more willing to chase over there,” Albers said. “Hitters are more aggressive with two strikes.         I’m not saying he can’t do that sort of thing eventually. He’s 26 going on 27 (on March 1), so there’s still room for improvement. He needs to get a little more consistent throwing strikes and getting ahead. I could see him pitching in the high threes or low fours (in ERA). High twos or low threes? He’s not there yet.”

Berardino:

"Yang won the inaugural Choi Dong-won Award as the top Korean pitcher in the KBO, but Albers said he was more impressed with Kwang Hyun Kim, another 26-year-old lefty who went 13-9 with a 3.42 ERA. The San Diego Padres bid $2 million to win the negotiating rights for Kim last week, but they have yet to work out a deal to bring him to North America.

The posting fee for Yang was expected to be less than $2 million and could be well below that figure, according to media reports in South Korea."

[shs_59]

ya the KMH in the vid i saw of him his FB was primairly 142-146 KMH

 

thats like 88-91 MPH

 

not overly impressive although his deliverly looks smooth....

 

From my early observations no way this guy starts in the Big Leagues this year, maybe a starter in AA or late inning reliever in AAA.

[USAFChief]

One of the big questions is the number of innings you could get out of him next season.

 

Plus, do we now need a translator?

I was a Korean linguist in the AF for fifteen years. Sure I'd listen if the Twins called.

[twinsfanstreif]

ya the KMH in the vid i saw of him his FB was primairly 142-146 KMH

 

thats like 88-91 MPH

 

not overly impressive although his deliverly looks smooth....

 

From my early observations no way this guy starts in the Big Leagues this year, maybe a starter in AA or late inning reliever in AAA.

It topped out in the video I saw at 149 (93ish), he was mostly hovering in the 145 (90) range. his control is a problem because of inconsistant mechanics, even most of his strikeouts were guys chasing out of the zone. He's be a LOOGY with the chance to spot start I presume

[twinsfanstreif]

One of the big questions is the number of innings you could get out of him next season.

 

Plus, do we now need a translator?

 

From what I understand most Koreans speak english, I have a freind from South Korea and he said that english is spoken frequently in the major cities, the only way people don't know english is if they're from rural areas