The bullpen - overused, or just bad?

[ericchri]

I kind of wonder if the pressure of being the only truly "good" pitcher in the pen weighs on Perkins a bit.  The rest of those guys pretty much top out at "OK".

 

With the assumption that whoever may be managing the Twins a couple years from now will continue the tradition of having a "closer" (gag), I think the best thing for the team might be for the closer to be Burdi, and Perkins moves back into a "setup role".  Have Perk and a fairly dominant righty (Zach Jones?) available and you can choose which of the two to use for the 7th/8th based on what the upcoming lineup looks like for lefties and righties.  Even though he's been excellent in the "closer" role, I've always been disappointed (enraged might be a truer representation of my opinion) that he couldn't be used earlier in games when the upcoming inning's lineup called for a really good lefty, not just random bullpen guy who is today's available lefty/setup guy.

[DJSim22]

I voted for overused although the bullpen is missing an 8th inning guy imo.  Perk is a good, not great closer.  Fien should be a 7th inning guy.  I'm not as down on Burton as others have been, but there is no reason to bring him back next year. 

 

Keep:

 

Perk- closer

Fien- 7th

Thielbar- situational LP

Swarzak- Long

 

Sign a 8th inning RP, Ryan as been able to put together bullpens.

 

Everyone else can fight it out to round out the pen.  No one ekse impresses me. 

[Willihammer]

Bullpen xFIP

 

1st half: 4.08 (28th)

2nd half: 4.34 (29th)

[Kwak]

Apparently the manager of the first place Angels isn't a very good bullpen manager by some logic here. Scioscia trotted out 19 relievers over the 4 game series to Gardy's 18.

 

I don't have an issue with the way Gardy manages the pen in the grand scheme of things. I was at all four games against the Angels and it was a combination of bad pitching, bad pitchers and some aggresive, opportunistic hitting by the Angels, who happen to be a very good team.

 

There is a lot of dead wood in there right now but I expect some significant turnover this winter, the team has enough potential reinforcements to keep the pen effective next season.

Come September, the rosters expand and it is normal for teams to add several RPs.  Use of more pitchers isn't as taxing on the overall bullpen when more are used as would be the case before September.  The use of many RPs during the season (pre-September) can mask he deficiencies of some RPs--but comes at the price of a short bench.  Short bench means players must adapt to play positions they aren't at the ML level, and severely limits the counter (a PH) to when the opponent brings in their specialist PR to gain a favorable matchup.  September callups make situational RP matchups less likely because both teams have many options for pitching, hitting, defense, and even baserunning.

[James Richter]

MLB relievers as a whole have a 1.28 WHIP. Only Perkins and Fien have significantly exceeded that standard and deserve to be called "good." The rest are below the mark to varying degrees and easily replaceable - no reason to pick up options or go to arbitration for 2015, plenty of good arms available from AAA or the FA market.

 

In defense of Perkins, while his last 30 days have seen his worst K% and highest HR% of the season, his overall numbers are still plenty good for a Closer. It isn't that Perk is giving up zillions of hits all of a sudden, it's that the hits he has given up are for extra bases and came with nobody out. Very tough to avoid giving up runs under those circumstances. It could be he's fatigued, or it could be just another SSS fluke.

[nater79a]

I think it's more to do with how many innings the relief staff has thrown recently.  Since May and Milone have arrived we've had an inordinate number of 3-4 inning starts.   Add in some short starts by Nolasco, Gibby and Pino and that will tax any bullpen that has to go 4-5+ innings most nights.  Only Hughes is able to save the bullpen.

[stringer bell]

Short starts have hurt this club.  IMHO, having an extra bullpen arm has hurt the club less.  I wasn't on board with recalling Guerrier, especially when the club needed help in the outfield, but most of the season there really wasn't anyone any good in the Twins' system that could step in and take a bench role.  A lot of that has to do with the 40-man roster, but a lot of it is just the way things worked out.  For most of the season, the Twins had two long men, and what's more, they couldn't really move either one to another role and they couldn't be optioned to the minors.  The long man can save bullpens once in awhile, but they just don't help to win many ballgames that they are in.  I really believe that the Twins will go with a 12-man staff for almost all of 2015 and that will be helped by better starting pitching and better arms in the 'pen. 

[Monkeypaws]

The more I've gotten to see Kansas City's bullpen, the more I'd lean towards that of the Twins being not necessarily bad, but average.

 

The Royals bullpen is what I hope the Twins will have in a couple years. Their final innings troika is incredible.

[RealTwinsFan357]

I think the bullpen has talent, but not enough talent. After the last few seasons, many have pointed to the bullpen as a bright point, but even then our bullpen was average, not great. It just looked great because of how below-average our team was. Perkins will be fine. He should stay, and he should be the closer. Fien is worth keeping around, he may be better as a 7th inning guy, but he should stay. Swarzak, Burton, and Duensing shouldn't be back next year IMO. I think our starter-backlog will add some additional arms to the bullpen (like Pelfrey, for example), so it probably won't be necessary to sign a FA reliever. We can instead use prospects/failed starters and try to piece something together.

[Mike Sixel]

Bullpen xFIP

 

1st half: 4.08 (28th)

2nd half: 4.34 (29th)

 

So, not over use then.......just bad. And old. And w/o options so they can't move guys up and down from AAA and have a real bench. And, overpaid relative to the rest of the roster.....

[Willihammer]

Thielbar, Fien, and Milone have options. I don't know if Rochester will have room for all them on their roster though.

[Willihammer]

The more I've gotten to see Kansas City's bullpen, the more I'd lean towards that of the Twins being not necessarily bad, but average.

The more I see of the Royals pen the more I lean towards the Twins' pen being well below average. YMMV I guess

[beckmt]

Royals are in a class by themselves on a bullpen.  Twins bullpen in average, but too many short starts the last month are taxing.  Feel that 3-4 of this pen will be back, do not know if the arms in Rochester or New Britian are any better than what is here.  Only when Burdi, Zach Jones, and a few others arrive will this change.  The one lefty reliever in New Britian is about the only stuff reliever we have at the upper levels.  Tonkin and Oliveras are OK, but little better than what we have here.

[Monkeypaws]

The more I see of the Royals pen the more I lean towards the Twins' pen being well below average. YMMV I guess

 

I'd meet you at slightly below average, with a dash of overused on the side.

 

They do have the 3rd most innings tossed in MLB.

[Craig Arko]

Rally monkey.

 

Ok, I'm starting to lose it now.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Apparently the manager of the first place Angels isn't a very good bullpen manager by some logic here. Scioscia trotted out 19 relievers over the 4 game series to Gardy's 18.

 

I don't have an issue with the way Gardy manages the pen in the grand scheme of things. I was at all four games against the Angels and it was a combination of bad pitching, bad pitchers and some aggresive, opportunistic hitting by the Angels, who happen to be a very good team.

 

There is a lot of dead wood in there right now but I expect some significant turnover this winter, the team has enough potential reinforcements to keep the pen effective next season.

Scoscia trotted out 19 relievers when 1 game he didn't have a starter and used relievers in 1-2 inning stretches the whole game. He planned on 7 pitchers for that game on purpose.