Don't Look Now but the Transformation has Begun

[JB_Iowa]

It doesn't seem to difficult to build an appropriate lineup right now.

 

Dozier 2B

Mauer 1B

Willingham (for now) LF

Arcia RF

Pinto DH/C

Plouffe 3B

Suzuki C/DH

Escobar SS

Hicks CF

 

Send Santana to SS in Rochester. Release Kubel. Fuld returns soon and call up Romero

 

Parmelee (lefty)

Fuld (lefty)

Romero (righty)

Nunez (righty)

 

as the bench

 

This is not, at all, difficult for a manager to see.

 

Unfortunately, without a change of manager, I think you're going to have to substitute a back-up catcher for Romero ,,,, which currently looks like Eric Fryer.

 

Ludicrous but likely.

 

I'd be happy watching your line-up even when they encounter difficulties because I want to see the development of Pinto, Arcia, Hicks, Escobar, Dozier and Plouffe.

 

If Santana unseats Escobar, that's fine too but you're right, he needs to play SS unless they decide that just isn't the right position for him based on his skills not the team's need for a CF.

[cmathewson]

It's possible. I'm mostly indifferent on Gardy. I think he does some things right, others wrong.

 

Position players whom Gardy benched/sent out for long stretches when they were young:

Cuddles

Kubel

Bartlett

Hicks

Escobar

Pinto

 

Pitchers whom Gardy/Anderson sent down/bullpened in favor of marginal veterans:

Santana

Garza

Baker

Slowey

Deduno

 

In general, Gardy is known for putting up with a struggling young player for less than a week, and then benching him. Sometimes a guy needs a day or two to clear his mind or get extra work in the cage or, whatever. But guys get a week of starting here, a week of benching there, and generally do not get consistent play from Gardy until they prove to him at the major league level that they can do it for months at a time. A guy doesn't have to just be good to play for him, he has to be hot, and stay hot. Hence, Santana is Gardy's new favorite because he's hot. If he slumps for a week, he'll end up on the bench for a couple of weeks until the guy in front of him slumps, etc. Playing the hot hand to the exclusion of development makes Gardy a particularly bad manager for developing players.

 

It's a chicken and egg situation that at best slows guys development (Cuddles is the leading poster child), at worst it means the guy has to go to another team before finding himself (Garza is the leading poster child).

 

If a guy is a veteran, however, Gardy shows almost infinite patience with him. Kubel continues to start despite falling off the same cliff that landed Colabello in AAA, for example.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Don't look know but its happening. With Plouffe and Dozier establishing themselves as quality MLB players and substantial playing time for Arcia, Pinto, Escobar, Santana, Hicks and Gibson, the Twins core players are now represented by younger, up and coming players.

 

For the record, most of these guys were around last year, and most were performing at roughly similar levels for much of the season too. Santana is new in 2014, and Escobar and Gibson are performing better despite shaky peripherals, but otherwise, the youth transformation at the MLB level has mostly stalled since mid to late 2013 (not that it's bad, it is definitely better than regressing!).

 

The transformation so far this year has mostly been Hughes, and maybe Suzuki too on the position player side.

[Mike Sixel]

For the record, most of these guys were around last year, and most were performing at roughly similar levels for much of the season too. Santana is new in 2014, and Escobar and Gibson are performing better despite shaky peripherals, but otherwise, the youth transformation at the MLB level has mostly stalled since mid to late 2013 (not that it's bad, it is definitely better than regressing!).

 

The transformation so far this year has mostly been Hughes, and maybe Suzuki too on the position player side.

 

Careful, I get ripped every week for pointing this out......

[jokin]

Eh, on a Jim Thome-type deal it's not a bad flyer.

 

Though it's unlikely Josh is going to accept that deal.

 

If Josh continues on this tear heading towards July, his trading value will probably never be higher over the remainder of his career.

[Thrylos]

Re: Span.

 

Fact: Aaron Hicks has a higher OBP and Fielding Percentage than Span and made more out of zone plays in about 3/4 of Span's innings in 2014.

 

Let's bring back Span. And if that does not work out, let's seance Kirby's ghost or something...

[DocBauer]

I believe a solid Willingham will be more productive for us over the long haul of this season that whatever A prospect we'd get for him. Age alone would prevent a big return, though a late season trade isn't out of the question. He'll have to be replaced next offseason.

 

Deduno has done nothing but pitch well as long as healthy. And as such, is better than just about any other 5th starter out there. He not only deserves his spot in the rotation, but you'll see improvement over his next few starts as he stretches himself out. Hughes and Nolasco are just fine. Nolasco hasn't hit his stride yet, but we're seeing signs. You don't mess with Gibson. He's solid, will get better, but might tire around September. Just in time for call ups. May and Meyer will get their shots eventually. But don't forget, they are both in their first AAA season with a month and a half in. Give them a little more time. And I say again, don't go to sleep on Darnell. Johnson? Might be a late blooming LH, but he's probably a long or middle bullpen option.

 

Dozier is good, on his way to stud status. Love what Plouffe is doing. Pinto shows tremendous potential. Escobar is a breath of fresh air. But he needs to sit or play another spot a day or two a week to let Santana see time at SS. Santana is a problem. He should play SS daily, and yet, the kid provides a spark, doesn't approach anything as if he's a young rookie who shouldn't be here. How do you not keep him up here and do something with him?

 

The bullpen is close. Trading Duensing would be a huge mistake. Relievers walk a fine line. One bad stretch blows their stats up. But this guy has proven to be largely dependable when he has a role. Dealing him would be a mistake. Like the rotation though, there are the likes of Tonkin and Achter, and possibly Pino, who deserve a shot at some point this season.

 

I like the direction we're heading.

[curt1965]

The great debate: winning at all costs vs. developing young players. Unless it's an injury replacement, once a player is up from the minors, he generally needs to play. Santana has been a pleasant surprise, and until Fuld is available, he is our only option in CF. I'm a Gardie fan (one of the few apparently), but I don't understand what he is doing with Pinto.

He needs to play, and if that's at Rochester, so be it. Same with Hicks: everyone is down on him, but he's just a young, immature young man who was rushed to the show before he was ready. People forget that Hunter and Cuddy went back and forth for years. Parmalee and Kubel really should not be on a major league roster. Bottom line, if more talent was available, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Position players whom Gardy benched/sent out for long stretches when they were young:

Cuddles

Kubel

Bartlett

Hicks

Escobar

Pinto

 

Pitchers whom Gardy/Anderson sent down/bullpened in favor of marginal veterans:

Santana

Garza

Baker

Slowey

Deduno

 

In general, Gardy is known for putting up with a struggling young player for less than a week, and then benching him. Sometimes a guy needs a day or two to clear his mind or get extra work in the cage or, whatever. But guys get a week of starting here, a week of benching there, and generally do not get consistent play from Gardy until they prove to him at the major league level that they can do it for months at a time. A guy doesn't have to just be good to play for him, he has to be hot, and stay hot. Hence, Santana is Gardy's new favorite because he's hot. If he slumps for a week, he'll end up on the bench for a couple of weeks until the guy in front of him slumps, etc. Playing the hot hand to the exclusion of development makes Gardy a particularly bad manager for developing players.

 

It's a chicken and egg situation that at best slows guys development (Cuddles is the leading poster child), at worst it means the guy has to go to another team before finding himself (Garza is the leading poster child).

 

If a guy is a veteran, however, Gardy shows almost infinite patience with him. Kubel continues to start despite falling off the same cliff that landed Colabello in AAA, for example.

I would also put Carlos Gomez in this category of bastard-child Gardy disowns and then regrets a couple years down the road.

[PatG]

I believe a solid Willingham will be more productive for us over the long haul of this season that whatever A prospect we'd get for him. Age alone would prevent a big return, though a late season trade isn't out of the question. He'll have to be replaced next offseason.

 

Deduno has done nothing but pitch well as long as healthy. And as such, is better than just about any other 5th starter out there. He not only deserves his spot in the rotation, but you'll see improvement over his next few starts as he stretches himself out. Hughes and Nolasco are just fine. Nolasco hasn't hit his stride yet, but we're seeing signs. You don't mess with Gibson. He's solid, will get better, but might tire around September. Just in time for call ups. May and Meyer will get their shots eventually. But don't forget, they are both in their first AAA season with a month and a half in. Give them a little more time. And I say again, don't go to sleep on Darnell. Johnson? Might be a late blooming LH, but he's probably a long or middle bullpen option.

 

Dozier is good, on his way to stud status. Love what Plouffe is doing. Pinto shows tremendous potential. Escobar is a breath of fresh air. But he needs to sit or play another spot a day or two a week to let Santana see time at SS. Santana is a problem. He should play SS daily, and yet, the kid provides a spark, doesn't approach anything as if he's a young rookie who shouldn't be here. How do you not keep him up here and do something with him?

 

The bullpen is close. Trading Duensing would be a huge mistake. Relievers walk a fine line. One bad stretch blows their stats up. But this guy has proven to be largely dependable when he has a role. Dealing him would be a mistake. Like the rotation though, there are the likes of Tonkin and Achter, and possibly Pino, who deserve a shot at some point this season.

 

I like the direction we're heading.

 

This guys got it!!!

 

Now the elephant in the room: When do you look to trade J Mauer to Boston? There is no real 1B in the pipeline (Vargas/Sano???)

[Mike Sixel]

Ha, no one is trading for a 1B that isn't hitting, that is owed $23MM.

[jokin]

This guys got it!!!

 

Now the elephant in the room: When do you look to trade J Mauer to Boston? There is no real 1B in the pipeline (Vargas/Sano???)

 

Hah. That train to Boston left over a year ago, when Mauer still had real value as a Catcher.

[PatG]

Hah. That train to Boston left over a year ago, when Mauer still had real value as a Catcher.

 

now this funny! And I know humor!!!

[jokin]

Ha, no one is trading for a 1B that isn't hitting, that is owed $23MM.

 

$23M X 5

 

Not only would this be the worst possible time to attempt to trade Mauer, Joe would have none of it with his no-trade clause.

[PatG]

$23M X 5

 

Not only would this be the worst possible time to attempt to trade Mauer, Joe would have none of it with his no-trade clause.

 

 

Perhaps that would spur him on a bit...... Hmmmm.... Motivation???

 

How about introducing our friend J Mauer to our other friend M Zimmer; I believe his quote was: "I like the weight room!"

 

Wouldn't that be something to have J Mauer beef up a bit, a little more zing on those line drives.

 

Heck if J M worked for the Red Sox or Yankees and their "chemical engineering" shop, he'd be about 6'6" and 270 lbs (remember when Texeria's head looked very small)......again, Hmmmm.....Or how about the occasional weight room visit

[Mike Sixel]

You must not recall there being needless in the Twins locker room, and the manager saying to ignore them......back in the day.

[JB_Iowa]

This thread has taken a turn to the bizarre.

[Beezer07]

This thread has taken a turn to the bizarre.

 

It really has, hasn't it?

[cmathewson]

I would also put Carlos Gomez in this category of bastard-child Gardy disowns and then regrets a couple years down the road.

 

And Liriano.

[Mike Sixel]

On topic, I don't agree the change has really started. This year, the minors has produced Danny Santana. Meanwhile, they chose Guerrier over several worthy AAA candidates. I just don't see it as really started yet.

[Shane Wahl]

The dichotomy between winning now and playing prospects is false, generally, though Willingham, Fien, and Duensing are likely going to win more games than their replacements (false for Swarzak, Correia and Burton). Anyway, in the next 8 weeks, the Twins can work to trade these six guys plus, perhaps, Escobar or Santana. Willingham, Correia, and Burton are aging, and Swarzak is limited, but goodish. The Twins are headed into years of drafts that aren't so elite like this one. Adding some minor league depth to continue the system's promise is smart. This team could win 81, I suppose. But that can't mean that it doesn't build for the future in the remaining ways that it can.

[Brock Beauchamp]

And Liriano.

 

Eh, Liriano is up to his old antics again. 2013 looks more like an aberration than a real improvement.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Eh, Liriano is up to his old antics again. 2013 looks more like an aberration than a real improvement.

 

He's definitely not 2006, 2010, or 2013 vintage Liriano at the moment, but he's not quite at 2011-2012 depths yet either (at least by FIP & xFIP). Plus, he's getting paid about the same as Pelfrey -- he doesn't have to be dominant to be a good value.

[Brock Beauchamp]

He's definitely not 2006, 2010, or 2013 vintage Liriano at the moment, but he's not quite at 2011-2012 depths yet either (at least by FIP & xFIP). Plus, he's getting paid about the same as Pelfrey -- he doesn't have to be dominant to be a good value.

 

He's really not far off his 2011-2012 numbers. He's allowing 8.6 hits per 9 (roughly the same as 11-12) and he's walking 4.7 per 9 (just a tick below 11-12).

 

He has basically reverted back to his pre-2013 numbers again. FIP thought he was an acceptable pitcher in 2011-2012 as well (4.54/4.34 FIP, 5.09/5.34 ERA). FIP loves pitchers like Liriano, even when they're not very good.

[Otto von Ballpark]

He's really not far off his 2011-2012 numbers. He's allowing 8.6 hits per 9 (roughly the same as 11-12) and he's walking 4.7 per 9 (just a tick below 11-12).

 

He has basically reverted back to his pre-2013 numbers again. FIP thought he was an acceptable pitcher in 2011-2012 as well (4.54/4.34 FIP, 5.09/5.34 ERA). FIP loves pitchers like Liriano, even when they're not very good.

 

Even then, his current ERA is closer to his 2011-2012 FIP than his 2011-2012 ERA. And before last night, his BB/9 was 4.2, basically midway between 2012 and 2013. He's not a star, but he's probably got the right amount of upside to be worthwhile on a modest contract.

 

That said, bringing it back into the context of this thread, I agree he probably wasn't going to get near that upside with the Twins again. (Although I'm not really sure that's a good excuse for Gardy/Anderson...)

[Mike Sixel]

I am always amused when Brock goes off topic like this, don't know why, but it makes me smile.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Even then, his current ERA is closer to his 2011-2012 FIP than his 2011-2012 ERA. And before last night, his BB/9 was 4.2, basically midway between 2012 and 2013. He's not a star, but he's probably got the right amount of upside to be worthwhile on a modest contract.

 

Oh, the contract was still a good one, if only for what Francisco did last year. He's still earning his meager paycheck this season as well.