KirbyDome89

The Twins pitching is horrible and there isn't a ton of help on the way. I get that everybody is thrilled by making the one game WC but if anything that game showed just how far behind the Twins are in terms of pitching. Hell, their "ace," couldn't get past the second inning. They can't rely on a young core to drag a staff that sports a revolving door at the 4 and 5 spots for an entire season. If they moved on from a 2B coming off a career year that very likely will never be repeated and they snagged a pitching prospect who at worse projects to be one of the FA "options," the Twins are looking to hand 12-15 million a year I can't get too upset. Everybody rages about SSS on here but we're now sure JDL is a bust? I hope not making the move for JDL does turn out to be the right decision, but I feel like if you're calling this a "win," already it's more because you want it to be.

This is the only post I've seen in multiple threads that brings up fat shaming. That isn't the reason the article is drawing criticism. I have the same issues with the piece as a majority of other posters do: it's a hot take article filled with unsupported claims, and it was published at a convenient time in order to elicit a specific reaction.

So we're certain that Sano isn't at a healthy weight? All I see so far is speculation that he isn't and somehow that is enough to uphold the article and support the claims about about his recovery time.

Organizational depth certainly isn't a sexy return, but for a rental starter and a reliever they weren't likely to resign I can't complain too much. I had next to no faith the Twins were going to make it into the postseason, but the fact the regular season is already over still bums me out. The moves were better than the half measures we've become accustomed to but I was still hoping for a little more noise whether they decided to buy or sell.

If this FO is making franchise altering decisions based on only 3 games then this team is in serious trouble. There is a lot more that should (and certainly does) go into deciding whether to buy or sell.

They shouldn't suddenly sell after a 3 game sweep in LA, just as they shouldn't remove themselves from the sales floor if they win 2 or 3 in Oakland. I'm pro sell, but I'm also not entirely opposed to buying if they're willing to get long term pieces for the pitching staff. I think the worst thing they can do is exactly what they've done so far; add a rental pitcher and nothing else. Either sell veteran players at peak value, or sell of some of the younger guys to bring in pitching help, but enough of the half in half out stuff. I don't have much faith in them acquiring much help at this point, so hopefully they buck the trend of the past and actually move Ervin and/or Kintzler rather than watch their value depress to preseason levels.

Pat yourself on the back then. There was an entire thread devoted to earlier in the season.

I think at this point he's just holding out for that contract extension everybody wanted to give him in early May...

"Jason Castro’s overall impact can’t be overstated." It can, and it often is. Removing Sano and Grossman from the OF and replacing them with Buxton and Kepler is HUGE. Polanco has surprised a bit at short, and we already knew Mauer could play above average defense at 1B. Castro can be solid behind the plate and that plays a part in the equation as well. However, there is extreme dissonance between the "Castro has brought this staff out of the depths," narrative and reality, which is that the staff is still horrible, and without a career year from Ervin it would've already imploded.

LMFAO true...and probably for good reason but hilarious nonetheless

"Minnesota can expand their opportunity to take over by supplementing what they already have going. At some point, top Twins prospects close to making an impact will be called upon. Nick Gordon, Stephen Gonsalves, and Fernando Romero all look like difference makers for a big league club. If that means spending big on a top tier starter, making a splash to get a superstar in return, or rounding out the 25 man with some A-list pieces, it would seem that now appears the time to do so." Any trade discussion for pitching is going to start with those three. I don't see any way in which they're able to bring in talent and hold onto their top young players. Actually spending $$ in FA would be great, and it would save this team prospect depth that it desperately needs, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen. "Whether the Twins operate on the trade market in 2017, or look to free agency prior to the 2018 season, there hasn’t been a time in recent memory that looks more like a “go for it moment” for the organization. Asking the Twins to spend money at any point since at least 2010 seems like an avenue for wasting dollars to improve by a marginal value at best. Now however, one or two big additions could be enough to have this group take the next step." There NEVER is a perfect moment to "go for it." The post above said it best, building is a constant process, and acquiring talent is a massive part of that. If the Twins had gone the route of slashing payroll for a few years, trading off all valuable veterans, drafting smartly, and cornering the international market (they did do this to an extent,) and then signing proven MLB players supplementing the team with the youth acquired then I would've been behind withholding on signing FAs. That clearly wasn't the case. We've watched the payroll drop over the course of 6 season now but the team has been filled with AAAA players and washed up veteran signings over that time period. I guess they get credit for dabbling in the mid level FA pitching market even if it didn't come up roses. Honestly, there is no excuse for being that bad over 6 seasons; and they're still dealing with the same issues in the 7th season!

There is also risk in holding onto an aging player, and value lost by not moving him at his peak. Ervin is far from a sure thing to put up another 3 months performance like this. To me it sounds like everybody willing to let Ervin go is comfortable with a prospect(s) return. How comfortable are you with hoping the Twins spend real $$ in FA? They can put together a package of prospects and snag a pitcher, but is it reasonable to expect multiple moves like that? Probably not, so now you're looking at trading away major league players. Apparently Dozier is worthless, and Santiago never cashed in on the promise of that 4 game stretch in April. Either way the team is hurt, but I would rather have 4-5 years of Buxton/Kepler/even Polanco instead of 1-2 years of Ervin in his mid to late 30s. IMO it makes the most sense to trade an aging veteran having a career year.

It's at least dealing from some depth so I can stomach it depending on the pitcher coming back. If they're shipping out prospects then I would rather see them go all in and get at least a 2 starter with multiple years of team control. It was said earlier but if they're dealing high end prospects for a mid to back end rotation starter to "shore up," the staff in an attempt to limp into the playoffs I'll be very disappointed.

Honest question. If they aren't willing to move guys like Santana then where are the Twins finding pitching? They won't be big spenders in FA and the minor league system isn't exactly stocked with upside arms. What players have the necessary combination of value and expendability to bring back mid rotation or better starting pitching? Hopefully Ervin's July looks more like his April/May than his June, and the Twins can sell at or over market value.

I agree he shares a good part of the blame for the lack of hitting thus far, but if Buxton needs to figure this out himself isn't the fact the Twins won't leave his swing alone part of the problem then?

Nope not at all. Of course not all prospects work out, but I don't know where anybody is banking on a majority of them to hit their ceiling. Prospects aren't lottery tickets; meaning they don't all carry the same chance for success. Higher end guys like Gonsalves, Romero, and Gordon are going to be the starting point to acquire a starting pitcher at the deadline. Unless they can somehow find get a front of the rotation guy with multiple years of team control (very unlikely) I'm not in favor of giving up what little high end talent this team has in AA. That doesn't mean I don't want them to get better, or do nothing, but improving the team doesn't have to mean giving up young arms for a rental. Every young player that makes up the core of this team will be here after 2020. Barring injuries I can't see players like Buxton, Sano, Kepler, Berrios, or Polanco getting worse over the next few seasons so no, I'm not concerned about future performance. I get the "future isn't promised," argument, but making decisions that only involve "NOW," and where they are in the standings today is how half steps are made. One of the loudest (and legitimate) complaints over the past few seasons has centered around how directionless this organization has looked. Nobody is rooting for more time that this team can't contend, but a shot at a wild card loss or a first round sweep isn't worth what a rental is going to cost.

I'll echo Mike and say that I don't think anybody enjoys watching bad baseball for 6+ seasons. Rebuilds are ugly and the process can unfortunately be long. Some teams are far better at doing them effectively (Hello Houston and Chicago.) We're finally seeing a foundation forming after a delayed start to the process. To get to this stage and then start selling off prospects for rentals/a chance to drag a seriously flawed team into the playoffs this season is the equivalent of buying the cheapest materials you can in a rush to finish the project. If the goal is a sustained window of contention, which I believe it is, then I can be patient. That said if the trade talks revolve around bringing in a starter with multiple years of team control I'm all ears. The Twins are likely going to have to make significant trades to improve the pitching staff. Barring some miracle, the Pohlad's piggy bank isn't breaking open and this team isn't spending real money in FA to improve the front end of the rotation.

You should.... Another starting pitcher and a starting corner outfielder would be huge right now.

They actually aren't saving any money either. They're paying LA $4 million of Nolasco's salary and when you add that to the $8 million contract they tendered to Santiago the two are basically a wash.

Disclaimer: I'm on board with the first couple picks but wasn't thrilled with the "Reach for Leach," (I think I'll copyright that) move. My issue with these arguments is the use of TR as some sort of Boogeyman. It was time was for him to go and I'm glad the Twins made a change, but he was far from the only issue in the organization. A large number of people who also contributed to the dismal drafting/developing/signing of players are still here. Does that mean they're destined to continue the streak of poor performance? No, but I can certainly understand why that is a concern. Ultimately the draft decisions ran through TR, but those same scouts and development staff who provided him with their own data/professional opinions are doing the same for Falvine. Their past failures are relevant. They shouldn't have to wear them as a dunce cap but they shouldn't be forgotten simply because the ear they're whispering into has changed. The first day of the draft was disappointing. Not everybody may feel that way, but it's unfortunately the overwhelming feeling at this point. Things can change with a couple high upside picks above slot in the 3rd and 4th round, and hopefully they do.

I'm not expecting them to come out and say "Hey guys we really f***ed this up," but they'll need to provide some explanation for signing under slot and then reaching in the 2nd round.

You have to think they were sniped. Saving the $$$ isn't necessarily a bad thing but waiting to use it until day 2 makes no sense. Lots of questions. It'll be interesting to see how many answers the Twins provide...

Basically the same range of emotions here. I was cool with Lewis 1-1 and assumed they either saw McKay/Greene/Lewis as equals talent wise, or they viewed Lewis as the best overall. The Rooker pick might have been a small reach but still an exciting pick and apparently they saved more cash. The Leach pick was when I started wondering WTF was going on. That one was disappointing to say the least....

If Lewis didn't sign under slot then that must be the case. I'm OK with it, I want them to draft whomever they believe is the best player. If that isn't the rationale and Lewis indeed signed under slot then odd might be too gentle of a descriptor.

Agree 100% on the first paragraph. Yeah, we should probably wait to see who they take with the supplemental picks and hear some rationale for the moves made.