KirbyDome89

So don't trade for prospects? Every MLB player is one injury away from ending/derailing a career so should they be taken off the list of options as well? There is assumed risk on both sides of the trade, but it seems only one is being acknowledged. Again, how else are they finding pitching they're willing to pay for?

That rotation that "made the playoffs," got to a one game wild card and was rocked. You don't think JDL is an improvement over Gibson, Gee, Mejia, Colon, or any of the other 20 something starters they trotted out? It is debatable, and it'll be a mistake if they're overpaying in FA for more back end Hughes, Nolasco, Santiago type pitchers in order to cobble together a rotation that gives them a shot at the postseason but no real chance of advancing.

That's a big reason why I was on board with the Dozier trade. I don't think people realize how difficult it's going to be to put together a staff that is capable of actual playoff success.

If JDL busts and the Twins start spending money on front ending pitching then yeah it'll look like a good move. Neither of those things have happened. Like I said, if you're calling it a win right now it's because you want to, not because it actually is.

Isn't it possible the Twins asking price was high?

Yes, pedigree says better. His floor would be a back end starter. 12-15M is what they're paying for that back end starter on the FA market. Quite a bit less expensive to shell out the league minimum to a young player.

Not even remotely the same thing Brock.... They had a chance to trade a player from a position of depth and at peak value and they decided to pass up the best offer they received. A good number of people seem to think Dozier is suddenly more valuable or that he'll be more in demand even though his 2017 < 2016 and he has only a year left before FA. Extremely unlikely. What are they doing with Dozier? Extending him and tying up more money? FA starters are expensive. Good bullpen pieces are expensive. All the young players that got them to that one game wildcard are hitting arbitration in a couple years. This team doesn't operate on a high payroll. They had a chance to snag a young, cost controlled, front end upside pitching prospect and they didn't take it. I disagree with the logic.

quality > quantity Bringing in multiple prospects of a lesser caliber as organizational filler does nothing for this team right now.

I wouldn't put him in the 4-5 range right now but for the sake of argument we'll say he is. That's 12-15 million per year they just saved. Throw that money and more at a front end starter. Bring in some actual relief arms. Bringing in young, cost controlled pitching helps in more than more way.

And if that borderline elite player decides to walk?.... They tried finding better prospects, JDL was the best offer they received. If they aren't interested in paying value for high end prospects then cross off the trade market as an option for bringing in real pitching help.

Ervin has compiled years of stats to tell you he isn't an ace pitcher. That isn't myopia. He happens to be the best option in a terrible rotation. That doesn't make him an elite pitcher. That is the same group of scouts responsible for all the pitching on the field and drafted the past 5 seasons. I honestly hope the new FO wasn't/isn't leaning hard on them for pitching recommendations...

They can? Who is making that offer? Why is he suddenly more valuable coming off a lesser season and with only one year of control instead of two? What pieces? They have the real Ervin (not the April-May .98 ERA Ervin) and Berrios. After that it's nothing but question marks, inconsistency, and AAAA pitching. That isn't a staff anywhere near actual playoff contention.

How else are they going to acquire front end starters or pitchers who at least have that potential? Yes, it's a risk but the Twins aren't paying for that pitching in FA. They don't have anybody right now that projects as a strong front end starter, and they have 0 history of developing any pitcher like that.

You seemed pretty comfortable writing him off due to injuries, Idk how to take that other than he's a bust to this point. Agreed, they would've taken heat. I think we can also agree that this FO isn't making decisions based on fan/media approval ratings (they shouldn't be.) I understand it's an unpopular opinion but honestly Idk how this can be a "win." Dozier can walk after next season. If the idea is to trade him, his market was lukewarm after a career year last season, and I don't see the Twins suddenly getting an offer that'll blow them away this offseason coming off a lesser season and with one less year of control. They NEED pitching. Not just back end rotation pieces signed in FA. Those guys might get them to a one game wild card or even the ALDS but they aren't winning playoff series with rotations like that. We've watched the Twins waste MVP and Cy Young talent with subpar rosters. I don't want to see a promising young core exit the playoffs early or fail to make them altogether, because the pitching staff is a disaster. They had a moveable piece at a position of depth and they had a chance to bring in a pitcher with front end rotation potential. I get that I'm in the minority here, but unless they're giving up prospects (which they'll need to keep unless they're planning on a KC like contention window) they aren't going to acquire those types of pitchers, and certainly not for that many years of control. Is it a "win," in the short term? Yes, they made the one game wild card and Dozier was a big part of that but I'm not putting a ton of stock in that. A short playoff appearance this season was a pleasant/unexpected surprise but it shouldn't mask just how uphill the climb to building a playoff caliber rotation is. I feel like they missed out on a chance to do that.

The Twins pitching is horrible and there isn't a ton of help on the way. I get that everybody is thrilled by making the one game WC but if anything that game showed just how far behind the Twins are in terms of pitching. Hell, their "ace," couldn't get past the second inning. They can't rely on a young core to drag a staff that sports a revolving door at the 4 and 5 spots for an entire season. If they moved on from a 2B coming off a career year that very likely will never be repeated and they snagged a pitching prospect who at worse projects to be one of the FA "options," the Twins are looking to hand 12-15 million a year I can't get too upset. Everybody rages about SSS on here but we're now sure JDL is a bust? I hope not making the move for JDL does turn out to be the right decision, but I feel like if you're calling this a "win," already it's more because you want it to be.

This is the only post I've seen in multiple threads that brings up fat shaming. That isn't the reason the article is drawing criticism. I have the same issues with the piece as a majority of other posters do: it's a hot take article filled with unsupported claims, and it was published at a convenient time in order to elicit a specific reaction.

So we're certain that Sano isn't at a healthy weight? All I see so far is speculation that he isn't and somehow that is enough to uphold the article and support the claims about about his recovery time.

Organizational depth certainly isn't a sexy return, but for a rental starter and a reliever they weren't likely to resign I can't complain too much. I had next to no faith the Twins were going to make it into the postseason, but the fact the regular season is already over still bums me out. The moves were better than the half measures we've become accustomed to but I was still hoping for a little more noise whether they decided to buy or sell.

If this FO is making franchise altering decisions based on only 3 games then this team is in serious trouble. There is a lot more that should (and certainly does) go into deciding whether to buy or sell.

They shouldn't suddenly sell after a 3 game sweep in LA, just as they shouldn't remove themselves from the sales floor if they win 2 or 3 in Oakland. I'm pro sell, but I'm also not entirely opposed to buying if they're willing to get long term pieces for the pitching staff. I think the worst thing they can do is exactly what they've done so far; add a rental pitcher and nothing else. Either sell veteran players at peak value, or sell of some of the younger guys to bring in pitching help, but enough of the half in half out stuff. I don't have much faith in them acquiring much help at this point, so hopefully they buck the trend of the past and actually move Ervin and/or Kintzler rather than watch their value depress to preseason levels.

Pat yourself on the back then. There was an entire thread devoted to earlier in the season.

I think at this point he's just holding out for that contract extension everybody wanted to give him in early May...

"Jason Castro’s overall impact can’t be overstated." It can, and it often is. Removing Sano and Grossman from the OF and replacing them with Buxton and Kepler is HUGE. Polanco has surprised a bit at short, and we already knew Mauer could play above average defense at 1B. Castro can be solid behind the plate and that plays a part in the equation as well. However, there is extreme dissonance between the "Castro has brought this staff out of the depths," narrative and reality, which is that the staff is still horrible, and without a career year from Ervin it would've already imploded.

LMFAO true...and probably for good reason but hilarious nonetheless

"Minnesota can expand their opportunity to take over by supplementing what they already have going. At some point, top Twins prospects close to making an impact will be called upon. Nick Gordon, Stephen Gonsalves, and Fernando Romero all look like difference makers for a big league club. If that means spending big on a top tier starter, making a splash to get a superstar in return, or rounding out the 25 man with some A-list pieces, it would seem that now appears the time to do so." Any trade discussion for pitching is going to start with those three. I don't see any way in which they're able to bring in talent and hold onto their top young players. Actually spending $$ in FA would be great, and it would save this team prospect depth that it desperately needs, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen. "Whether the Twins operate on the trade market in 2017, or look to free agency prior to the 2018 season, there hasn’t been a time in recent memory that looks more like a “go for it moment” for the organization. Asking the Twins to spend money at any point since at least 2010 seems like an avenue for wasting dollars to improve by a marginal value at best. Now however, one or two big additions could be enough to have this group take the next step." There NEVER is a perfect moment to "go for it." The post above said it best, building is a constant process, and acquiring talent is a massive part of that. If the Twins had gone the route of slashing payroll for a few years, trading off all valuable veterans, drafting smartly, and cornering the international market (they did do this to an extent,) and then signing proven MLB players supplementing the team with the youth acquired then I would've been behind withholding on signing FAs. That clearly wasn't the case. We've watched the payroll drop over the course of 6 season now but the team has been filled with AAAA players and washed up veteran signings over that time period. I guess they get credit for dabbling in the mid level FA pitching market even if it didn't come up roses. Honestly, there is no excuse for being that bad over 6 seasons; and they're still dealing with the same issues in the 7th season!