chpettit19

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-guardians/payroll/2022/ The Cleveland Guardians literally just won the division, and took NY to a do or die game 5 in the ALDS, with a guy making 26.81% of their payroll. Guess the condescension wasn't so needed after all.

What good came from Aledmys Diaz being on the Astros roster (he was received in a trade for a 25 year old minor league pitcher, weird how identical this is to the Farmer trade)? How did he get the Astros to a WS? It's almost like every team in baseball, including WS champs, need to have backups, and preferably good ones.

September stats are very different now than in TK's day. Rosters are expanded to 28, not 40. The narrative that September stats are tainted cuz of facing AAA talent isn't nearly as true now. The reports are that Pagan had more teams calling the Twins asking about him than Gio did. Which is then quite frustrating that Pagan wasn't also moved. Or maybe those were Twins FO leaked rumors to draw more calls on Pagan moving forward? But there are reports that teams want Pagan, oddly enough.

James Rowson was let go by the Marlins and is now the assistant hitting coach with the Tigers.

I don't buy the argument that teams should be less likely to sign a guy because he was bad for them if multiple other teams think he's a useful player. The only argument against it would be if the Twins simply don't have the ability to get the most out of the player. If they think that (not fans, but the team themselves) they should be making changes to get people in there that they feel can improve players. It doesn't make sense to me to say "we were the team he was bad for so we shouldn't give him a shot and instead let another team fix him" if they think he's fixable. If he's fixable, and I don't think he is thus I don't want him on the Twins, it shouldn't matter that he was with the Twins or the Royals or the Dodgers or the Diamondbacks or what team he was on. That shouldn't play any role beyond they have more knowledge of him than the other teams so should actually have an advantage in fixing him. I hope he's not on the roster come spring training time, and wish he wasn't on the roster now. I would've DFA'ed him in July. But if multiple teams around the league think he's fixable, and the Twins are one of them, then it makes sense to keep him to be the one to reap the possible benefits of fixing him. He was bad for the Padres the last 2 years, but they still tendered him and had him all the way up to opening day. Guess that's a dumb front office, too.

I understood the analogy, I'm saying it's wrong. The K rate and "stuff" is what makes the engine go, it's not the wheels. A pitcher can't be good without those "shiny things." So the Twins, and other teams apparently, see Pagan as a car with an engine that needs a little tuning up, and they hope they're the mechanics to make it run like "name your favorite fancy car here." I hope he's not on the opening day roster, but their process is still sound, and is the same process every well run team follows. Liam Hendriks was a "lemon" until he was tweaked and became the best closer in baseball. Matt Wisler was a "lemon" until the Twins tuned his engine and he's been a bullpen weapon for them and Tampa now. Max Muncy was a "lemon" until the Dodgers got him in the hands of their mechanics. Shoot, Gio Urshela was a "lemon" until the Yanks got their hands on him. Jorge Lopez was a "lemon" until the O's moved him to the pen. My point isn't that the Twins should rely on Pagan, or even should've tendered him, it's that this is something every team in baseball does. And they're clearly not the only team that sees something in the "shiny stuff" that they think they can turn into something useful. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong. Maybe they're right that he's got more in him, but they aren't the ones to bring it out. But guys like Pagan get deals every year from every team because they all think they can take the raw talent and produce something out of it. I don't like that the Twins are continuing to employee Emilio Pagan, even for just right now, but the process isn't dumb in anyway. It's what teams do. They scout and then try to teach. I don't want him, but this is how baseball works. Literally every team does this.

Not sure why Bleacher Report listed him as a 3B, this is the Twins getting a depth SS piece. Makes sense to me. Doesn't stop them from bringing in a top SS, but now they have 1 other guy on the roster who can play SS at a major league talent level. That's a piece this team was going to be missing heading into opening day. They filled that for a 25 year old that not many people really understood why he was on the 40-man. It is fun to have people already making every move out to an indictment on the whole offseason in November, though. With the Twins doing basically nothing before the lockout last year we had to wait so long before people freaked out about depth moves and acted like they were planning on using Tim Beckham as their opening day SS. I look forward to getting a full offseason of overreactions this season. Should be fun.

Problem with your analogy is that the other clubs don't like "the shiny wheels," they like the engine. Maybe there's multiple bad mechanics running teams and the Twins happen to be one of the teams with a bad mechanic. I certainly won't rule that out. But, to me, the teams that would be looking to trade for Pagan (who's still trade eligible, by the way, it's not like they're locked into him forever now) are either rebuilding teams who think they can pull a Jorge Lopez with him and spin half a great season into some prospects, or they're contenders who think he can help their bullpen. We don't know which teams were interested so maybe it was just all the terribly run teams who called about him. Or maybe it was the Dodgers and Astros and Braves. Again, I don't want Pagan back and wish they would've traded or non-tendered him. But the idea that the Twins are dumb for wanting a player that other teams want doesn't make sense.

I don't want Pagan back, so don't yell at me for what I'm about to say, but...it's an interesting situation when the front office is seen as being dumb and incapable of evaluating talent when they keep a guy multiple teams wanted to trade for.

If they weren't going to pay that money this is a great move. Why not take a flier prospect instead of just non-tendering Urshela? I liked Gio and would've been happy with him on the team to start 2023, but can also understand clearing 3B for Miranda, and hopefully Lee before long. This becomes a terrible trade if they don't spend that money, though. For me, this entire offseason comes down to them actually being aggressive and signing some top end talent with the money they should have available in their budget.

It's all about price to me. How long, and how expensive, is Xander's contract going to be. I'm guessing he's looking for 6+ years and I'm not interested in that for him. I think his decline is coming soon. If you can get him for 3 or 4 years I'd be all over that, but more than that would be a hard no for me.

My thought as well. I wouldn't say it's super likely, but also not impossible. If he's non-tendered I'd scoop him up and say goodbye to Garlick.

I wouldn't give up anything to get IKF, but if he's non-tendered today he'd be worth looking at if they aren't able to get one of the top SS on the market.

Bellinger is an interesting player this offseason. If he were on any team outside of the few big spenders he'd be an unquestioned non-tender, but he plays for the Dodgers so there's a chance they risk the 20 mil on 1 more shot at getting MVP Bellinger back. I'd think that their decision on Bellinger is based on how they feel about their chances to sign Judge. If they think they have a legit shot at bringing Judge to the west coast I'd think they'd be more likely to non-tender Bellinger and shift that money to Judge. If they don't think they can get him it probably makes it more likely they just hold onto Bellinger and hope he figures it out. As for the Twins bringing him in if he's non-tendered...much like the Gallo article yesterday, if they're moving Kepler Bellinger wouldn't be a bad guy to bring in on a 1 year deal to see if he can catch lightning in a bottle offensively while not losing the defense in RF. I wouldn't be tripping over myself to sign Bellinger Saturday if he's non-tendered Friday, but he's someone I'd keep my eye on later in the offseason as I make other moves such as a potential Kepler trade.

Bauer is just about the only top free agent pitcher the Dodgers have brought in in recent memory. They built their rotation almost entirely internally. I'm not saying they aren't a threat to sign Rodon, because they're a threat to sign literally everyone, but spending big money on FA pitchers isn't their MO at all. They traded for Scherzer midseason, but also got Trea Turner in that deal, and then didn't extend Scherzer. They traded for David Price, but that was to get Mookie Betts. They've extended their homegrown HOF pitcher Clayton Kershaw, but they really don't bring in any long-term, high priced FA starters frequently. Grienke in 2013 and Bauer in 2021 (both of which will be only 3 year deals) are the only truly big money signings they've made in the last 10 years for starting pitching. Since they're the Dodgers they're always capable of these kinds of signings, but they most certainly aren't "always throwing money at top free agent pitchers."

Ah, the old Sano debate. Sano was an above average hitter for the Twins overall, but was the very definition of streaky. When he was "on" he was the scariest hitter on the planet. When he was "off" he was basically a pitcher hitting. There were very few in between times. To me, he was mostly a victim of the hype train. He was tabbed as a savior for this team from the day he signed. They made a documentary about him. They were calling him the next Miguel Cabrera. He was going to come up and win MVPs and carry the Twins to World Series titles. Then it turned out he was simply a poor defender, above average hitter who helped usher in the "strikeouts don't matter" movement in baseball. There's no argument that he was a "bust," but at the end of his time in a Twins uni he's certainly been disappointing. I expect Sano to sign a major league deal somewhere. And probably not have a ton of problems finding one. He's a 29 year old who makes harder contact than anyone in baseball. Not sure why people think that guy is going to struggle to find a big league deal. I know he was disappointing here, but 29 year olds with his batted ball data and a 116 OPS+ and 115 wRC+ get major league deals.

Way to just leave me hanging here, Brock! Although, that's pretty much the exact summary of what I think a lot of us are expecting with this saga anyways. Solid fifth-place offer.

I see. You not quoting them made it appear that you were saying you didn't think they needed Gallo cuz he was a DH. I follow now. I sure hope they don't accept any "dumbest move they've made" challenges! From me or anyone else.

Gallo isn't a DH. He's a multi-time gold glove winning outfielder. If they signed him and put him at DH it'd be the worst move they've ever made.

Would I be out there trying to get him signed today? No. Not at all. But if February rolls around and he's still sitting there and I can get a decent deal for Kepler I'd certainly consider it. Wouldn't lose anything defensively or offensively with swapping Kepler out for Gallo. They're different offensive players and get to their OPS numbers in different ways, but overall they've been awfully similar in terms of OPS type stats in their careers. Strong no to just adding him to the team, but if you can get something valuable for Kepler while replacing Kepler with Gallo in right it'd be an interesting plan with some real upside.

Just an FYI, but Shewmake was added to the Atlanta 40-man. I'd guess there's very little chance any real AAA SS will be left off 40-mans today.

I mean this is just flat out incorrect.

I didn't say loath anywhere. I don't think he's a player worthy of a major league roster spot on a contender because he brings 1 thing, and 1 thing only to a roster. And hitting against lefties is the smallest role possible on a roster. So, no, I don't like him as a player taking up a spot on the 26-man roster and I hope that doesn't happen. But signing him to barely above league minimum deal isn't hurting anything so I have no problem with that. Just expect a major leaguer to be able to hit righties, run, field, throw, or literally be good at any other part of the game besides hitting lefties.

I still remember last year when people freaked out about signing Tim Beckham to a minor league deal. I don't like Garlick and hope he's not on the Twins next year, but there's no reason not to keep him around until you have someone who's better. They'll DFA him in an instant if they can sign a Haniger type, but why not keep him until you do?

Thielbar and Rogers are on the same level for me for 2023. Thielbar is going to be 36 next year and I'm not betting my season on him being a late inning, shutdown guy. Same feelings I have on Rogers. Willing to go into the year with them as middle relievers, but I want better guys than either of them for the late inning/closer roles.