chpettit19

I believe the move was Vallimont DFA and Megill taking the 40-man spot.

It's a tweet. They're limited on how many characters they have. It's 1 of dozens they send out during a game. And the name is a link to that player's twitter page. Not much they can do about the restraints of twitter unless they have roughly $44 billion and want to buy twitter.

Is the suggestion that Rocco should constantly warmup 2 relievers at all times? Seems like an awful lot of unnecessary throws on all of their arms. When you put a reliever in for a clean inning you're not going to have another guy up and throwing immediately. There's a needed gap in time to get another guy loose and ready to go before you can take a reliever out. The Twins lead all of baseball in bullpen WPA. So arguing that Rocco doesn't manage his pen well is suggesting that they should have an even bigger lead than they already do over every other pen in the entirety of major league baseball. Maybe it's not that he doesn't know how to manage a pen, but that he doesn't manage them the way you want him to ?‍♂️

When it comes to knowing how to play 3B? Did he forget? Are grounders different now? Is the throw further now? Again, quit acting like he forgot how to play baseball or field a grounder. 3B is not so complicated that he needs 12 games of experience now to be able to play it. That's my problem with all of this. People are acting like he didn't play any baseball for 2 years and simply forgot how to do it.

I don't expect him to continue to keep hitting like he did. I expect him to have struggles when the pitchers adjust. Then he needs to figure out how to adjust back. That's the life of a major league hitter. He can't do that in AAA. He needs to learn to adjust to major league pitchers and how they get him out. Sending him down because he's going to have struggles in the future isn't to his benefit it's to his detriment. So you expect him back up in the next 4 weeks or so? If he played half his games at 3B during that time it'd be "like 12 games" at 3B (3 games a week for 4 weeks). So 12 games matters now, but 12 previous games don't? Why are we acting like the kid forgot how to play baseball and hasn't swung a bat or fielded a grounder in 2 years. He played baseball that first season. It's where he adjusted his swing and made strides in his fielding. His rehab from surgery included playing baseball. He's been playing for months now and succeeding. People may have expected him to start slow, but he didn't. He's playing well. Bringing up 2 missed years as a reason why he can't play now even though he's currently playing well blows my mind.

The team has already said he's going to be moving around the field at AAA. Gardenhire confirmed it last night. He's down there to get used to other positions to be ready when he's needed in the bigs again. I haven't seen anyone suggest he's a guaranteed a top half of the order hitter. The claims are he is right now. He is/was currently performing better than over half the team at the major league level. Sending him down because he may (will) struggle later isn't a good reason. His future development depends on being able to adjust to ML pitching, not AAA. He needs to go through those struggles eventually. The Twins have sent him down to work on other positions and get ABs against inferior pitchers when he could be working on those other positions and getting ABs against the pitching he'll ultimately have to adjust to.

For the record Royce played 3B until he was a senior in high school and 109 professional innings at 3B. "Basically never played" is a misrepresentation of Royce Lewis' experience.

I think this next month+ is setup perfect for the team and FO. Build the lead by racking up wins over the next 4 series and build the confidence. Get into the meat of the schedule and see how you matchup against some of the big boys. Hopefully everyone is healthy by then and you can get a good read on where everyone is at. Then you get into July, aka trade season, and hopefully still have a lead in the division while having a clearer picture of where the team stands and you make moves to fill the holes. Certainly not predicting any massive moves that put the future in real jeopardy, but I've seen recent reports that they're still in on Montas and I'd think the Reds pitchers will be available. I don't think the team as it's currently constructed is a great playoff threat, but I think they're close enough to make a trade or 2 once they see how June goes and put themselves in a place to have a team that could make a little noise. Or at least win a game.

I was going to do some work, but now I have to go check out Law's mock, thanks a lot. Johnson, Collier, and Holliday are the 3 I'm hoping for most right now. But would be happy with one of the Cs as well.

And I'm saying it's a failure that they didn't have a plan in place for their top prospect being good. You're in the season. Games are happening. Wins and losses matter. Having to send down a guy who's performing better than all but 3 of your current major leaguers because you need to "recalculate" is a failure. Needing to "figure out a new plan" because your superstar shortstop and your top prospect shortstop are both good at baseball is a failure. I don't get how that's not considered anything but a misfire.

That's a great mischaracterization of my stance. And you literally just suggested they were confused on what to do and needed to pull off the highway to recalculate the GPS. My stance is that it's an unforced demotion of one of the best players they currently have on the roster. I've provided numerous guesses on how they could've come to the decision. I've rebutted reasons given by both posters and team officials/players. Doesn't mean I'm right. But characterizing my stance as "it's all about some misfired plan or expectation and now they are confused" is ignoring a lot and actually a complaint about an argument you literally made 45 minutes ago. But don't characterize my stance that way as it's drastically reducing the ideas I've presented.

You disprove your own point in your first paragraph. You start by saying he's going to have struggles and shouldn't be christened to the majors from here on out. I agree with both of those things. But then you point out the obvious counter in that he's going to need to go through those struggles eventually. Sending him down while he's doing well because at some point it's almost guaranteed that he has struggles is just delaying those struggles. Sending him down doesn't change that, it just makes it more likely that he goes through those challenges at a time when the team isn't playing the As, Royals, and Tigers and they're actually counting on him to have made adjustments. Lewis doesn't need to be in AAA to learn 3B. He's played it plenty throughout his life. Including 109 professional innings. There's no reason to send him to AAA to learn 3B. LF you could sell me on. I guess we'll see where they play him in AAA. But the rest of that second paragraph is just an emphasis on 1 of my 3 complaints: being surprised he was good. If it's "whoa" in anyway and they need to send him down to recalculate it means they weren't prepared for him to be ready and better than Urshela and Miranda (a guy with 1 good MLB season, and a guy with 1 good MiLB season). That's a failure. If they signed Correa knowing they had Lewis and are now surprised and confused on what to do because Correa may stay and their best prospect, who plays the same position, is good it's a failure, not an acceptable excuse. How do you not expect, and thus have a plan for, your top prospect to be good? I agree with the premise of your 3rd paragraph. It's not the end of the world. But that doesn't mean it makes sense or was necessary or that the FO doesn't deserve all the heat they're getting (including from their own players if you believe the Dan Hayes article on The Athletic). But I am thinking about June, July, August, September, and October or November when I make my complaints. He's going to struggle at some point in the majors (as we both agree on). I'd prefer that happens in May or June rather than September or October. He's going to have to make adjustments. Let's let him make them early instead of late when he's being counted on during a pennant race late in the year. And for the record this is my objective stance. I have run all the options through my head. I've read pretty much every post on here about the possibilities and read all the Twins quotes from the FO to Rocco to the players. I have yet to see one that isn't easily refuted (outside of maybe them wanting him to get some time in LF). Playing 3B isn't acceptable as he can already do it. Playing SS isn't either as he's already shown he can play it after 2 years off. "The future" isn't as he needs to go through the adjustment period so all you're doing is delaying it. Urshela standing in his way isn't as he's a potential star and Urshela is a utility IFer. It's not the end of the world, but that doesn't make it a good decision through a "neutral stance" thought process.

I expected it, and admit it's quite possible that's why I'm so cranky about the decision to send him back down. I spent all offseason saying I expected him to do what Baddoo did last year and come out of the gates on fire because he's just that naturally gifted. He's an incredibly hard worker and knew what his was holding him back. Having all of 2020 to spend on reworking his swing without having to worry about what numbers he was putting up or getting promoted or whatever else was a blessing to him. I think game reps defensively are highly overrated. It's important to build your instincts and all that, but in terms of straight up being able to make the plays that's all worked on in practice. So, again, 2020 spent doing nothing but working on his glove everyday without worrying about errors and fielding percentage was a blessing to him. Last year was a real bummer for him. But he was training and playing games during the offseason unlike many of the major leaguers were so he was more ready than them because of his rehab process. I fully expected this out of him and I think it's a failing that the FO seemed to be so surprised (or are just being overly cautious/refusing to waiver from "the plan") by his success. They know what he was looking like in 2020 and what he was looking like during his rehab process and should've been ready for this. This feels like 1 of 3 things happened/are happening: 1. They weren't prepared for him to be this good this early. In which case they did a terrible job self-scouting their own player. 2. They're being overly cautious/looking too much to the future at the cost of the present by putting so much emphasis on him getting AAA reps at SS. In my opinion this is also inexcusable as there are plenty of examples of guys moving positions on the fly in the bigs and doing well. Trea Turner being the perfect example. Kris Bryant being another one (just wasn't a SS). It was out of necessity due to injuries for Arraez and Gordon to do it, but they were both successful with it. Teams do it all the time. 3. They're refusing to alter the almighty "plan." This is kind of a combo of 1 and 2. Also find it to be an awful excuse and a major flaw for the FO if it's what's happening. I think they've shown a tendency to hold onto plans too long/be overly cautious with things, and I think it's their biggest flaw. From the outside it looks like they get blinders on and are just going to keep charging in the direction they picked until they get knocked off course and have no choice but to adjust. I think they've been outstanding at setting up the development systems and the general baseball ops practices for a winning organization. I think they need a more aggressive voice in the room to counterbalance what appears to be a large number of "play it safe" voices. Lewis going down isn't the end of the world, and neither is resting Buxton or Correa, but there needs to be some aggressiveness at some point. At least that's how I see if from the outside.

What is debatable about it not being an either or situation? It is entirely possible to look to the future and the present. It's literally the FO's job. The Nats sat Strasburg his rookie year with a look towards the future and not wanting to hurt his arm. He's been hurt for nearly his entire career. They also played Turner in CF (a position he'd never played before that year) when he first came up to get his bat in the lineup while he fine tuned his glove at SS. He's now the SS for the best team in baseball after a stint at 2B as well. The idea that the only way to prepare for the future is to send Lewis down is false. Sending him down also doesn't ensure his future. I agree with the general idea that fans don't have nearly as much knowledge or info as the FOs we complain about, but don't mistake that for meaning they're always right or that there aren't fans out there with a whole lot of info.

Let's break this argument down (and I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to find a way to respond coherently) 1. He missed 2 years. 2. He's the shortstop of the future so needs to be ready. 3. Can't be ready to take over for Correa unless he's playing SS "nearly EVERY day." I agree with 2. But doesn't his current performance render points 1 and 3 moot? What about his performance suggests he isn't ready to be the shortstop of the present? If Correa wasn't here he'd be the starting SS now and he was doing awfully well at that job. How does keeping him in the majors so he can go through the necessary adjustments over the course of the year as ML pitchers adjust to him hurt his future? I'd argue sending him down delays his ability to be ready to take over for Correa. He can field the position. He's shown it. He'll continue to work on it no matter where he is even if he isn't starting at SS everyday. The struggle rookies face is that eventually the league adjusts to you and pitch you different. That's what he needs to work on to be prepared to take over for Correa. All sending him down does is delay that adjustment opportunity.

The thing with the Lewis situation though is that it's not a focus on the present OR future situation. You can be focusing on both the present AND the future. I don't believe keeping him in the majors playing 3B while training everyday with the best fielding SS in baseball is hindering his future at all. He's played 109 professional innings at 3B already. That's not a ton, but let's not act like he's never played there. He played there most of his HS career as well. So he could help the present team by playing 3B and providing what is currently one of the best bats they have going, and he can learn the habits of Correa and train with him everyday. It's not a this or that situation. He can help the present and still be set to take over SS in the future.

Except they've openly stated that the plan isn't to have him play SS everyday, it's to move him around the field so he's comfortable playing other positions when he's needed again. He played a more than serviceable SS in his short stint and was doing quite well at it in St Paul. Plus they watched him take an insane amount of grounders during the 2020 season and have been watching him in Florida for months as he's rehabbed. If they aren't sure if he can play SS or not by now they have their answer and it's that he can't play SS.

But that would go against the idea of not having guys learn a new position on the fly in the bigs since Larnach has never played 1B in a professional game. I'm not arguing with you or anything. I'm mostly just trying to figure out a way to make this move make sense.

Royce has played 3B many times in his life. He played 3B in HS until his senior year. He played it in the AFL. He's played 109 professional innings at 3B. If the plan is to call him back up anytime soon an extra 27 innings or whatever he gets at AAA isn't going to be the difference maker. Which to me makes me think they don't plan to see him up again anytime soon. And that's my biggest problem with this. Him going down to learn LF is the only thing that makes sense to me since he only has 54 OF innings and those were all in CF (although he looked great there). So the plan seems to be putting him in AAA until somebody else gets hurt. That's not a winning plan to me. If Urshela goes down today do they move Miranda back across and let him continue to get sliced and diced by major league arms? If so I'd tip my cap to their dedication, but if the move would be to put Lewis over there he should be there today.

The answer to his playing time is that he takes over for the starter (like Urshela) who then moves to the bench. Lewis jumps to the top of the depth chart and everyone else moves down a spot, including someone to AAA.

There's no trades or DFA type moves that need to be made. Miranda needs to go down. Don't know anybody who would argue that. Garlick is a bad defender who only hits against lefties and has an option left. Those are 2 reasonable moves that could be made while putting Lewis at 3B to start over Urshela who has a great glove, but about a .600 OPS. There's no need to reduce any depth to keep Lewis in the majors.

Do you think that's the plan (comes back when they have to send out a pitcher at the end of the month) or do you expect an injury or something to open a spot?

The trade point was made as a proposition for clearing space for Lewis, which was on topic for this thread. We shouldn't have taken it any further than that here. Let's get back on point and that's Lewis being optioned back to AAA.

Winder is an MLB pitcher, Arraez is an MLB hitter, and Miranda is a top prospect. That's far more value than the Twins got for Berrios.

He played CF in the AFL and looked like he'd been doing it his whole life. You should go watch the highlights. They're fun. Nick Gordon figured the outfield out on the fly at the ML level and, no offense to Nick, Lewis is the better player so I'm not sure why he'd struggle greatly with that. He'd be a better LFer right now than Kyle Garlick or Brent Rooker or Trevor Larnach have been for the Twins.