chpettit19

Yes, the team needs to get more hits. But as I pointed out, the lineup was built for a more "complete approach to the game." Outside of steals and sac bunts, which are strategies used sparingly across the league as a whole, as they aren't good strategies for scoring runs. But the Twins offense was built with the idea of being able to get hits alongside their HRs. How many of the expected 12 regulars entering the season were HR or bust guys? That's my point. They were bad at getting hits, that's not the same thing as being built for power only. Sano was expected to be a HR or bust guy. Who else? Buxton, unfortunately, turned into one, but didn't come into the year expecting to be that way. Kepler is a power only guy at this point. But Polanco, Correa, Urshela, Arraez, Gordon, Kirilloff, and Celestino aren't. Jeffers and Sanchez came into the year expected to be pretty bad hitters in general, but I don't think I'd count either as power only guys. So 2 out of 12 guys were power only, and Buxton joined them while losing Sano so it was still 2 guys most of the year. That's not a team built to only mash. With Larnach and Lewis as the first 2 guys on the list for injury callups to the OF or IF that's 2 of the top 14 guys being power only. There's a difference between the team being bad at hitting and only playing for HRs. This team was bad at hitting. Not being able to execute a "complete approach to the game" is different than not trying to. The stats show they weren't built for, nor did they attempt to execute, a "HR or bust" approach. They simply weren't good at driving in runs. My point is that there's a misperception that the Twins want HRs and HRs only. Also a misperception that their HR only approach leads to crazy amounts of strikeouts. Neither of those things are true. They just didn't hit well enough with runners in scoring position. Despite being more than willing to go the other way and take singles and all those non-steal and sac bunt strategies people want, they just weren't good at getting clutch hits. So saying the Twins need to learn a lesson from yesterday's playoff games is wrong. Unless all you mean is that they need to get better at doing what they were already trying to do.

Yeah, it looks like Cody had the table filtered on "All Years" and not "2022." The data in this article isn't for the 2022 season its for the last 3 seasons combined. Correa was 4th in average velo and max velo for short stops with at least 300 throws in 2022. To be fair to Arraez, though, his velo from 3B was 84.4 last year (didn't have data this year). The flaw in this data, as others have pointed out, is that guys don't need to unleash cannons on every throw. Arraez had no need to let it rip playing 2B and 1B this year. 84.4 would put Arraez right in the middle amongst 3Bs.

Those scrappy Guardians got to the series against the Yankees by scoring 100% of their runs in the wild card round via the homerun. Then scored their only run in game 1 of the ALDS via the homerun. So 3 of their 5 games so far they scored 0 runs without hitting a homerun. Philly bashed Atlanta out of the NLDS with homerun after homerun. The only run scored in the Astros Mariners game last night by the SS you falsely claim costs more than 40 million less a year (how do you even come up with that stat? He makes 700k, Correa made 35.1 M) came via HR. I get it, the Twins were brutally bad with RISP this season. The entire team should be embarrassed. And the game is more fun when there's action on the base paths and guys are coming up with big clutch singles and doubles with guys on base. But let's be real about what's happening in the playoffs. In almost every playoff game I've watched they've mentioned how high a percent of runs are being scored via the homerun. It was almost HR or bust for the entire wild card round. The lesson is you need to be good at hitting to score. The Twins weren't good at hitting. They've very much changed their "HR or Bust" strategy from the last couple years. Buxton has become pretty HR or bust, but the majority of the team (Correa, Polanco, Arraez, Miranda, Gordon, Urshela, Celestino, Kirilloff, and Larnach) were not HR or Bust guys. The Twins hit the ball to the opposite field 25.4% of the time this season. League average was 25.1%. Those scrappy Guardians were at a whopping 26.4%. Oh, and those mighty Guardians with all their clutch hitting and not just playing for a HR scored an unbelievable 2 more runs than those brutally bad, need to change their whole strategy Twins this season. Imagine how much happier you would've been with those extra 2 runs if the Twins would just have had more sacrifice bunts! Miami had 84 more steals than the Twins this year. And scored 100 fewer runs. The lesson is that the Twins were a really bad team with runners in scoring position. They were 10th in the league in BB% and 12th in K%. They were 12th in BA. 10th in OBP and 11th in SLG. They were 9th in wRC+ overall. They were just brutally, brutally bad with RISP (22nd in BA w/RISP). Stealing more bases with a terribly slow team wouldn't make them hit better with RISP. Oh, and they were even above average at not chasing pitches 28.5% to league average of 29.1%. The lesson isn't always "if they'd just done it 'old school' and ignored the analytics they'd have been better!" As shown by basically any stat (new or old) you can come up with. Sometimes the lesson is the Twins just didn't hit well with RISP. One last stat: the NYY were 21st in BA with RISP this season. .001 higher than the Twins. They scored the 2nd most runs in baseball. 1 of only 2 teams over 800 runs scored. Which offensive stat do you think they lead baseball in? Hint: It's homeruns. It's almost like hitting homeruns is a really good strategy. Ok, I lied, 1 last stat: top 10 run scoring offenses this year: Dodgers, NYY, Braves, Jays, Cards, Mets, Phils, Astros, Red Sox, Brewers. Ranked 5, 1, 2, 7, 9, 15, 6, 4, 20, 3 in homeruns. So of the top 10 offenses in baseball 8 of them were top 10 in homeruns. Ugh, Falvine is so dumb for wanting to hit homeruns! Hitting homeruns is a wonderful strategy. It can't be the only strategy, but it's so unbelievably better when it comes to scoring runs than sac bunts and steals it's not even funny. Having a great all-around offense (and team in general) is the best strategy. That's why the Dodgers put up the crazy stats they do during the regular season. But if you can only have HRs or steals/sac bunts/whatever "old school fundamentals" you want to call for there's no debate, HRs are what you want. Of the top 10 teams in steals 4 of them were in the top 10 run scoring offenses. LAD, NYY, PHI, and MIL. What do those 4 teams have in common? They were all top 6 in homeruns hit. You want one of those 4 offenses or Texas, Miami, Cleveland, Cubs, Diamondbacks, and Royals? Those are the other top 10 steals teams. They rank 12th, 28th, 15th, 22nd, 14th, and 24th in runs scored this year.

The Twins don't currently have many players in the talent level of these prospects the Braves are tying up. It's why there's a lot of comments here about "I'd wait another year and make sure they're the real deal." That's kind of the opposite of the point of what the Braves are doing with a number of these guys. The Braves are signing the Acuna, Albies, Harris, Striders of the world to extensions before they're established so they can save some money while trusting in their own development and internal scouting abilities to know they're extending guys who will produce. Waiting until Arraez is into his arb years to be willing to extend him takes away the savings in the FA years you'd buy out because you're not able to say you're paying him millions extra in his pre-arb years. On a side note, I'm not sure why Olsen is listed in this article. He's not at all the same type of situation as the others. That was just a straight up extension of a soon to be free agent they'd just traded for. They didn't buy out any team control. The Riley situation is more of what people in the comments are asking for. They didn't get him extended until he had a breakout, borderline MVP candidate season last year. And that's why he got 212 mil and not 100 mil like Acuna Jr. That's the big difference here. They're locking up young, likely superstars to significantly below market deals because they're willing to pay them 10 million in their pre-arb years in exchange for their free agency years being 10 mil a year cheaper than expected before they've established themselves as superstars. Suggesting the Twins wait until guys are more sure things defeats that purpose and just means you're signing the Riley type deal which isn't nearly as team friendly as the Acuna deal. But, back to my first sentence, the Twins don't have a bunch of Riley and Acuna's coming up right now. Lewis is the type of guy that would fit that mold, and, to @TwinsDr2021's point, is young enough to make him a candidate for this kind of move. I was a Lewis believer going into this last year and suggested I'd give him the opening day SS job so I understand that my view on him is more extreme than most, but I'd lock him up for 10 years and 100 mil right now. The rest of the guys are either already in their mid-20s so you'd be buying out their decline years anyways, or they're more everyday regulars than all-stars. Maybe Miranda is someone they want to extend? Kirilloff would be if his career weren't in question with the wrist. If Lee debuts next year I'd sign him to 10 years 100 mil as well. Lock him and Lewis up and call the left side of my infield set for a decade. But beyond those couple guys there's not many that would really be a huge benefit to locking in. Maybe Rodriguez becomes a guy like this in a couple years? The guys that this strategy is really for are the young studs that come up and you want to lock in their entire 20s. Twins need to start graduating guys before they're 25 if they want to start buying out FA years early on.

Love the Nimmo and Rodon idea. Conforto on a pillow deal is another former Met I've wondered about them looking at.

First off, I just want to say this is a fantastic tool. Thanks TD! This is a mix of what I think is somewhat realistic on what the FO may try to do, and what I would do. I can't say I'd be thrilled with this team going into 2023, but wouldn't be burning down Target Field either. I have Lewis and Wallner officially listed in my sheet, but they're mostly just place holders for Julien, Palacios, etc. as a sign that I'm not bringing in outside guys to fill those spots. Only outside offensive player I'm bringing in is Omar Narvaez to pair with Jeffers behind the plate. I have the Twins bringing back Correa for 35 mil a year for 7 years. Don't think it's overly likely that happens, but it's the deal I'd have on the table now. I've traded Kepler simply for salary relief and would be looking at getting prospects back for him. For pitching I'm bringing Fulmer back and Rogers. They could be swapped out for other 7th/8th inning guys. But I think those are the most likely types of guys they bring in. I put Winder in the pen as I just don't know that his arm can hold up to starting. If he can do what Jax did as a reliever he's still a useful piece. That's the move I'd make to continue to build that pen. Twins are in a weird spot with simultaneously very few holes and a ton of holes open on the roster. There's reason to believe the young guys are ready to take roster spots. But the injuries to them have made it so hard to know who can actually take spots. If I'm the Pohlads I'm making the FO have really good reasons to turn away from prospects at this point. It's a do or die year for the FO for me, but the doing has to include turning prospects into legit core players. Either they've done that or they haven't. So I wouldn't just let them go out and sign a bunch of FAs. Use the available money for stars only (Correa for example). If they aren't producing cheap talent I need a new FO anyways. Time to find out if they've developed well enough and are good enough at supplementing around that development. C: Ryan Jeffers ($0.70M) 1B: Luis Arraez ($4.50M) 2B: Jorge Polanco ($7.50M) 3B: Gio Urshela ($9.00M) SS: Carlos Correa ($35M) LF: Alex Kirilloff ($0.70M) CF: Byron Buxton ($15.00M) RF: Trevor Larnach ($.7M) DH: Jose Miranda ($0.70M) 4th OF: Matt Wallner ($0.70M) Utility: Nick Gordon ($0.70M) Utility: Royce Lewis ($0.70M) Backup C: Omar Narvaez ($5.5M) SP1: Sonny Gray ($12.00M) SP2: Tyler Mahle ($8.00M) SP3: Kenta Maeda ($9.00M) SP4: Joe Ryan ($0.70M) SP5: Bailey Ober ($0.70M) RP: Jhoan Duran ($0.70M) RP: Jorge Lopez ($3.00M) RP: Griffin Jax ($0.70M) RP: Jorge Alcala ($1.00M) RP: Taylor Rogers ($6M) RP: Josh Winder ($.7M) RP: Cole Sands ($.7M) RP: Michael Fulmer ($6M) Payroll is 6.71% under budget

What @jorgenswest said. Correa fired his agent during the lockout.

The FO/Rocco (I pair them together because I just don't think there's really that much that distinguishes between who is doing what around there) likely can't win me back during the offseason. Outside of extending/re-signing Correa, signing Rodon, and adding 3 big time pen arms I just don't think there's moves they can make that would get me back on board with them. That's because my concern with them is the inability to make in season changes quickly enough to not tank a season. They get their plans and they just don't recalibrate fast enough. That's my number 1 problem with them and there's very little they can do to show me they've learned and grown from the Colome, Pagan, short start disasters before we're well into next season. But on other topics that have come up...yes, they need to be better at some fundamentals. No, hitting and running, sacrifice bunts, etc. are not fundamentals in and of themselves, they're a different style of baseball that is not really played today for good reasons. In order to steal more bases they need faster (or healthier in Buxton's case) players. You can't just blindly call for more steals when 75% of your lineup is slower than league average. The Twins need to get drastically better at baserunning, though. From coaches to players it was an absolute nightmare to watch this year. Cost them way too many games. I don't know how they fix the brutal RISP stats this season. They were surprisingly good at scoring guys from 3rd with less than 2 outs (don't shoot the messenger, just go look at the actual stats), but the rest of their "clutch" stats are brutal. I don't know how you fix that since they were 12th in the league in K% so it's not like they were just striking out at astronomical rates. But they need to fix that one way or another. I think they're setup with a better pitching staff than they have been in years as they hit the offseason. They have young and inexpensive guys ready for major league innings and money to spend to fill the holes. Coming out of the offseason with more Happ, Bundy, Archer types should get them fired. They have those backend roles filled now as the pipeline starts to trickle. The pipeline has produced 0 front end guys, though, and that's the role they need to fill now. Fill it. For all that is good on this earth, fill it. Get another shutdown reliever. Not a Pagan or Colome type, but a true shutdown closer. Leave Duran in his fireman role to get big Ks as needed in innings 6-8, but get a real closer. Maybe that's Lopez, but I'd prefer not to find out after he semi-collapsed after the trade. They have the rest of the pen filled with young, cheap guys so it's time to spend on the big guy. That's really the key to the offseason to me. Sign the difference makers. The team overall is young and inexpensive. You have the secondary pieces filled in with cheap talent. Go fill the primary spots. #1 starter. Elite SS. Elite closer. Get it done.

Agree with most of this, except the Yankees and Dodgers not bringing him in cuz their fans hate him. Yankees fans weren't big fans of Donaldson due to his interactions with Cole over the years, but they still traded for him and he's nowhere near the player Correa is. Those teams know their fans will get on board as long as they win. That's all they care about. Bring rings and all is forgiven.

I don't think Carlos is going to have any problem finding his big deal. I think the reason he has Boras as an agent now is because the guy he had last year wildly misread the FA situation before the lockout and cost Correa a huge deal then. So out with the old, in with the new super-agent. I think he gets a Seager sized deal, and I think there's multiple teams willing to give it to him. He doesn't care how competitive the Cubs are. If they're at 10/325 and that's the highest he can get he's going to Chicago. I think he put the cheating stuff behind him this year by having his 2nd best OPS+ season of his career in a new location. And that's all blown out of proportion anyways. The teams looking at him know the vast majority of their fanbase will be on board with signing him because he's probably the best overall SS in baseball. Fans just want wins and don't care about garbage cans from 6 years ago. Even Dodgers fans will be happy if he gets them Ws. As for the teams in his market: Yankees: would be surprised if they changed course and went after him hard this offseason, but they're always going to be a player in these things even if it's just to raise the price for other teams Dodgers: I'd guess they bring back Turner before chasing Correa, but if Turner heads back east (I think I saw somewhere there's rumors he'd prefer to be back on the east coast) I'd expect the Dodgers to be on the phone with Boras immediately. Red Sox: Think they're a real player in this. Bogaerts is a terrible fielder and would be best moving to 3B, but they're going to extend Devers for 3B. Don't think they want to move Story back to SS so I think Correa is a big target for them. Along with a ton of pitching. Braves: Would be shocked if he ended up here. Think Swanson for much cheaper is the most likely outcome, but even if they lose him I'd be surprised if they went big enough to get Correa. White Sox: Would also be surprised by this. Think moving Anderson off short would be huge for them, but I don't see them having this kind of spending ability moving forward. Phillies: I think they'll certainly kick the tires. Stott is a big time prospect so they won't just ignore him, and they didn't trade for Sosa for no reason, but they want to win and Correa would go a long ways in helping that. I think he'd make a ton of sense there, but also think they may be more in need of OF help. Especially someone who can defend a bunch of the grass to cover up for Schwarber and Castellanos. Cardinals: I don't know why, but they feel like a dark horse to me in this. I don't know that they have the payroll room to do this, but he'd fit in perfect there. Giants: If they're willing to admit paying Crawford for his last gasp, late in career spike year was a mistake and move on I think I'd put them as the front runners for Correa. They have the finances for it and he'd fit that organization quite well. Angels: Would be surprised if they handed out another mega-deal, but he'd be the best one they did (outside of the Trout extension). They need to spend on pitching, but if the owner decides he wants another shiny offensive toy they won't find one much shinier than Correa. Then there's always that 1 "mystery team" you have to worry about. It just takes 1 owner saying "go get me Correa" and he's getting some crazy deal. I don't think anyone saw Seager and Semien to Texas coming last year. Just takes 1 team. So I'm quite sure he's going to get his mega-deal, and I think there's a number of teams that will be in on the bidding. I actually feel like St Louis and San Fran would be my first 2 guesses on where he goes, but I have no real reason to believe that.

He better start 2023 on a high note or he'll continue moving towards the top of the list for guys to be removed from the 40-man next year. He's got too much upside to take him off now, but if he starts next year the way he started this year he'll lose his 40-man spot pretty quick. Little glimmer of hope here in September, but he's got a long ways to go. Hopefully he's able to get his body, and mind, right during the offseason and hit the ground running come February in Fort Meyers. 2023 is a make or break year for him with the Twins. Hope he makes instead of breaks!

At SS? The Astros decided to rely on a rookie who'd never stepped foot on a major league field before instead of extending Carlos Correa. Or are we just going to ignore that? The Astros were/are trying to win the World Series, could have afforded Carlos Correa, but didn't extend him before or during last season. So, by your breakdown of options, they're a "driftless (sic) team." So, yeah, I'm going to stick with you just manufacturing things to be mad about because you dislike the FO and want to pile on another thing they screwed up when the reality of the situation is this is playing out the exact same way that multiple situations play out as each and every season in every major sport in America. I notice you skipped all the other examples I laid out of situations playing out the same way last year, and this very season with players at his very position.

I don't get how anyone is surprised by this kind of comment or that he's going to go wherever he gets paid the most. This was literally always how things were going to play out unless he had a major injury. Corey Seager got 10/325 last year coming off a season with 3.7 bWAR and not having played more than 134 games in a season since 2017. Correa has 5.3 bWAR this year after having 7.2 last year and will be coming off 3 mostly healthy years. He was never going to opt in. He was never going to take any deal that was less than 10/325 before he hit the market again. So the only discussion that should be happening is whether or not the Twins should've just handed him 10/325 instead of this opt-out deal, or if they should've handed him 10/325 during the season, or if they should be offering it to him now. Any numbers below that weren't things that he would've signed. He didn't fire his old agent and hire Boras for any reason other than getting 10/325+.

So the Astros need to fire their FO? They did the exact same thing with Correa last year the Twins are doing this year. Letting him hit the market and see if he can get somebody to pay his asking price. The Braves did it with Freeman. Yankees are currently doing it with Judge. Dodgers doing it with Turner. Braves and Swanson. Red Sox and Bogaerts. Rockies with Story last year. That's a bunch of "driftless teams" who win a lot of games (plus the Rockies). It's almost like this is actually a pretty normal situation that plays out 100% of seasons and it's how big free agents are ever on the market. The FO has plenty of things for us to be mad about, we don't need to exaggerate situations and act like they aren't normal to add to the pile of complaints they've already earned. Correa was never going to accept anything from the Twins before hitting the market again that wasn't at least 10 years 325 mil to match Seager. Should the Twins have given him that? I wouldn't, but maybe people think they should. I wouldn't go over 7 years and I'd wait for the offseason to see if he can get someone to go 10/325 or if I have a shot at 7 years 250. Not everything is just the FO being terrible at their jobs.

Twins in a tough spot with these 3. Wallner hasn't played enough for me to pencil him into a starting spot just yet, but if you have him as your 26th man who plays RF/DH I don't think it's the worst spot to be in for the squad. But if he starts the year in AAA as the first in line for a callup I don't think that's bad either. He's on that border, which is nice to have in a young player with control. Larnach showed he could make some adjustments coming into the year, and was doing well using the whole field before his injuries kicked in. He wasn't lighting the world on fire, and it's 2 straight years of season ending injuries, so he wouldn't be penciled into any sort of starting role for me either. Same as Wallner in that I'd be fine with him as the 26th guy capable of playing LF/RF/DH, or the first callup available from St Paul. Kirilloff is the toughest for me as I think it's pretty clear he's the most talented out of the 3 in the batter's box, but that wrist just isn't something you can count on. Hopefully he's back swinging a bat before the end of the offseason and he can, and does, give honest reports to the team about how the wrist is feeling. If he's back to himself by January (I don't know his expected timeline, so maybe this isn't even possible) and the team can see him swinging like normal I'd be happy with him at 1B/LF/RF/DH on the opening day roster. But you just can't count on this surgery fixing things completely so I wouldn't go into the offseason penciling him in either. Left-handed cOF/DH definitely wouldn't be at the top of my wish list for the offseason if I were the Twins FO, but I also wouldn't have that box checked off in pen. What's Conforto going to get in a deal? Seems like he could be a nice pillow contract guy who just needs a year to show he's back. That'd be perfect for the Twins to give them a veteran who could fill that role early, and be a trade option at the deadline if one, or more, of these 3 show they're healthy and talented in the first half. If none of the 3 claim a spot you can look to extend Conforto if he's back to being himself. I'd focus more on bringing in a right-handed OF bat, but I think a solid veteran lefty should also be brought in for a little more insurance on these 3 being ready, and able, to lock down a starting spot. All too good to just toss aside, but too many question marks to count on. Not an ideal spot to be in.

Which mythical player was hitting .276 with 16 homeruns while displaying excellent fielding skills at the deadline? Cuz Eric Hosmer currently has 8 homeruns on the season. He was hitting .272 at the deadline, and hit .225 with Boston before getting injured and replaced.

How many was he on pace for last year before being traded? Hint: 200. Yes, he only reached 192.1 in 2018. He was only up for part of 2017 and was on a pace that in a full season would've had him right around 190. So, yes, I'm technically wrong. He went from 185 (if you include his minor league innings) to 192.1 to 200 to covid year to 200 innings pace again. Are you suggesting that him being at 190+ innings a year instead of 200 is proof that I'm wrong in my suggestion that they were never limiting his innings? Seems a little funny that you're arguing over 1 out a start.

Again, are the guys they got in return under control for 2023?

The Twins haven't been a good team in the last 2 years! I don't know how to make it more clear and concise. That's the entire point here. You're suggesting they should be acting like last year's World Series winner and one of the top 3 or 4 World Series favorites this year when they were 73-89 last year and on their way to another under .500 record this year. They aren't a good team! I don't understand what you're suggesting. The Twins haven't been a good team for 2 years now. The Yankees traded Chapman (the best closer in the game at the time). The Red Sox traded Mookie Betts. The Rays trade basically everybody. Those are some pretty solid teams from the last half decade plus. Context matters. Pretending a 73-89 team should be acting like a good team is ignoring all context. That's not "lawyering," it's being realistic. Putting your head in the sand and pretending you aren't a bad team is not how you become a good team, it's how you stay a bad team. Look at Colorado.

Are you suggesting Berrios knew the Twins were going to go from letting him throw 200 innings a year to not letting him do what they'd let him do his whole career this year and that's why he didn't want to sign here? I don't know if it was all about money, but I'd be willing to bet the Twins didn't tell him they were going to cut 50 innings off his season inning totals. Rumblings from Gray? You mean that Twitter clip where he complained about not going deeper in games? The one where when he was asked about it later he said he was mad at himself for not being better and not at the team? Look, I haven't enjoyed the pitching strategy this year, and think it played a huge role in ruining the season. But before this season they'd never done anything like this so the suggestion that this particular plan has played a role in FA pitchers not coming here is simply false. They've never done it before so how could it play a role in pitchers not coming here?

Again, I'm not talking about going into the 2021 season, I'm talking about the day they traded Berrios. I don't know how more plainly to state that. I mean I literally gave you their record on the day they traded him. At that point in the season did you think they should be acting as if they were going to win the 2021 World Series? Because that's the argument you're making when you compare that trade to not trading Judge this year. Did you notice that everyone the Twins traded for since 2021, outside of Fulmer, are also under control for 2023? Correa fell in their lap and allowed them to appease fans by spending to their budget, and gave them a season to sell him on the Twins organization and perhaps sign him long-term. They traded Rogers for a starter. Drastically underestimated the injury risk of that starter, but they were attempting to fill a bigger need by adding a guy who would throw 150+ innings for a guy who would throw half that. And they apparently think Pagan is actually good, which is clearly a miss on their part. Not finding any difficult questions to answer here.

I'm not telling anyone not to push back on the front office or suggesting changes aren't needed. I'm pointing out that the 4 players/moves that you and h2o are/were comparing have far more context than either of you are willing to acknowledge. When the Twins traded Jose Berrios were they in legitimate contention for the 2021 World Series title? Not asking if they went into the season trying to contend, but on the day he was traded did they have a legitimate chance of winning the 2021 World series? They were 43-61 and in last place in the central. Trying to compare that to not trading Aaron Judge in a season where he's going to win the MVP when the Yankees were 70-35 at the deadline and 11 games up in their division is disingenuous. Those are not comparable situations. Then, forecasting ahead, did it look like they had a reasonable chance to fill their many, many roster holes for 2022 and have a legitimate chance at contending for the 2022 World Series? What are the other moves beyond those 2 that create this pattern and philosophy of moves? Trading away vets you aren't going to be able to afford to resign during seasons when you aren't a good team isn't unique to the Twins, or a bad strategy. It's actually pretty global, especially amongst teams that can't/won't spend $200+ million on payroll. But back on July 25th, 2016, when the Yankees were 51-48 and in 4th place in their division, they traded away Aroldis Chapman. Why would they do that when winning organizations are willing to hold onto their players because it gives them a chance to win the World Series? Or is it that the strategy of trading players in a season you're not competing is actually the right strategy? I'm pushing back on you 2 because I believe you've failed in your attempt to unpack the philosophy and are ignoring all context in trying to compare things so they fit your narrative. Provide actually comparable situations and I won't push back. These are simply bad comparisons you 2 are attempting to make.

What would you like to bet that Aaron Judge wins the MVP award in 2022? I'll take any bet you want. You suggested it makes sense to compare the Yankees not trading Aaron Judge in the middle of a division winning season while he's literally playing like the MVP and very well might win the triple crown in the AL and the Twins trading Berrios during a completely and totally lost season with another one on the horizon that was likely also going to be a massive struggle with or without him. It's a bad analogy.

Were the Twins competing for World Series titles last year or this year? If they had both Berrios and Rogers this year would they be at 100 wins? Did the Twins trade away guys in 2019 or 2020 when they were winning? It's a bad comparison in basically everyway, and I pointed out multiple of the reasons it's a bad comparison in that post. The context of those 4 player's situations is completely ignored in that post. And now you're actively ignoring the same context. The Twins were the last place team in the worst division in baseball last year. Ignoring that and pretending they should've held onto Berrios because that's what "winning organizations" do feels quite disingenuous to me.

"The plan" was taken too far this year with their refusal to change it as the season progressed, but linking this year's plan to FA pitchers not coming here is inaccurate. Berrios was amongst the league leaders in innings pitched the whole time he was with the Twins. He was on pace for over 200 innings last year before he was traded. Typically the Twins, and Rocco, haven't been this extreme about pulling starters. I don't know what they were doing this year, but it was outside the norm, even for them. But you can't claim "the plan" is why FAs never come here when this is the first year they've run so aggressively with "the plan."