chpettit19

Except, as I've already laid out in this thread, Duffey isn't "prone to coughing up leads." He literally pitched a scoreless 8th inning of a 2-0 game 3 days ago. And he pitched a scoreless 8th against this very Royals team 2 days before that. So I'll go ahead and call you crazy I guess. Although I feel biased is probably the better term here. Whit Merrifield is a .220 hitter this year. Why would we argue that what he's done in the current season doesn't matter? Whit Merrifield didn't have a positive OPS+ last year either. And he's 33. Is it possible he's declined as a baseball player? I'm sorry I'm taking actual happenings from this actual major league baseball season and forming opinions on that instead of just "Whit Merrifield is not a .220 hitter, I don't care what's happened so far (in 2022)" <- assuming that was a typing error there. What a weird argument. "Hey, this guy used to be good so let's ignore what he's been like this season and assume what he's a better hitter than he can show us he is. I mean he is hitting a whopping .231 against the Twins this year so I guess he's really slaughtering them while struggling against everyone else.

I missed the part of his quote that he said they'd decided the day before Smeltzer was only going 7. Like I've even gone back and watched it again now and don't hear him at any point mention that the decision was made the day previous. Is it possible that when he says "once the decision is made" he's talking about in the dugout during the 7th inning and by the time Smeltzer gets to the dugout the in game decision has been made? For the record I would've kept Smeltzer in as well. Disagreed with taking him out. Doesn't change the fact that Duffey, and anyone else in the pen, needs to be able to get a guy hitting .220 and slugging .318 out in the 8th, or any, inning. If the Twins only have 2 guys who can get that guy out (Duran and Smith apparently) they're screwed. What you're describing here is your, very frequently stated, bias against Rocco and the way he and the organization manage the bullpen, and pitchers in general. And also your bias for Duffey. Duffey got through the 8th inning of a 2-0 game on 5/24, but it was crazy to throw him in the 8th inning of a 2-0 game on 5/26? Is it possible that you just don't like Duffey and are ignoring his positive outings to then rage on his bad ones? I've said multiple times now that I would've had someone up and ready for Benintendi and that mistakes were made. I've said I'd like to see other arms brought in to push Duffey down the leverage spectrum. But I'm also able to take 1 blown lead by the pen as just 1 blown lead by the pen and not act like the Rocco is blowing games because the offense can't score more than 2 runs in a game.

You're just as biased about Duffey as Rocco and the FO seem to be, just in the opposite direction. It's more than reasonable that he pitched to Merrifield. Merrifield is slugging .318 this year. That's the same as Nick Gordon. If Duran is the only guy in the pen who can get a guy hitting .220 and slugging .318 out in the 8th the team is doomed anyways. Not having someone ready for Benintendi was the mistake. And I've said that multiple times now.

Why are we assuming Rocco was going to do something he hasn't done with Duffey last night? He hasn't had a 2 inning save all year. Being convinced that was the plan is simply not based on any real evidence. Yes, I agree the 8th in a 2-0 game is high leverage. That's my point. That's the role Duffey has had in most of his appearances. High leverage. I'm not a big fan. I want Alcala back to push Duffey down the line another spot, and I'd like another arm brought in to push him down further. I don't think his success is sustainable anymore. I'm just pointing out that he has been used in high leverage situations in 9 of 11 May appearances. You had stated that Rocco wasn't using him that way since the first week and that isn't accurate. That's exactly how he's been used. The only times he wasn't used in high leverage situations was 5/12 and 5/14 when he hadn't pitched since 5/8 so they had to get him in a game and then he's basically on an every other day schedule so threw in the 5/14 loss as well. I don't like that he's a high leverage guy, but he has been and he's done well more often than not.

He wasn't in a save situation last night he was in a hold situation. Don't get me wrong, I'd like an upgrade on Duffey. Not trying to make this into something it isn't. But Duffey's last 5 outings, including last night, have been in high leverage situations. 5/16 Save in 3-1 win, 5/20 7th inning hold in 6-4 win, 5/22 8th inning win in 7-6 win (he held the score in that comeback), 5/24 8th inning hold in 2-0 win, then last night he was thrown in the 8th inning with a 2-0 lead again.

I agree they should've run for Sanchez. Jeffers would've gone to C and they would've lost the DH. I'm not sure what makes it "in all likelihood, Rocco was hoping he would close out the game." There's no reason to believe that. Duffey has thrown more than 1 inning twice in 18 appearances. There's no reason at all to suggest Duffey was getting a 2 inning save when he hasn't been used like that all season. Closest situation was against the Orioles with a 3 run lead when he finished the 7th before pitching the 8th. The other situation was when they were down 4-0 against the Astros and he pitched the 6th and 7th. Suggesting there was any reason to believe he was getting a 6 out save isn't based on anything that's happened. Again, I would've pulled him after the Merrifield double and I'm not saying the was the right choice to leave him in or that he deserves no heat. Just saying the game was tied before anyone can say they'd have pulled him.

I said I wasn't saying it's the right decision. The game was tied before anyone can say they'd have pulled Duffey. I said having someone ready for Benintendi would've made sense. Duffey has made 18 appearances this season. He's allowed even 1 run in 5 of those. Can we not act like he's been getting shelled left and right? He hasn't allowed a single run in 73% of his outings. Before last night he'd allowed runs in 2 of his last 13 appearance. 3 runs in 13.1 innings. It's more than reasonable to have expected him to get out of an inning that started Out, 1B, Out unscathed. After the double I'd have pulled him. All I'm saying is it's not some crazy situation. The Royals pulled their guy after he loaded the bases with no outs. That's very different than 1 on 2 outs after 3 hitters. Rocco should've pulled him before they lost the lead, but Duffey has been good at not giving up runs so it wasn't like he left me out there to give up 15 runs with a 14 run lead.

Dang, I missed that. Thanks for the info! I certainly won't say it was the right decision last night, but I don't think it's as egregious as others do. It was 2 outs guy on first after the first 3 hitters. No reason to get anyone up and throwing then, right? Then you get a single. 2 out, guys on 1st and 2nd. Certainly a little nervous, but just needs 1 out and inning over. Whit Merrifield is a good baseball player, but he's also hitting like .220 this year. No problem with letting Duffey face him, but definitely a point in time that you'd think it's probably good to get someone up just in case he doesn't get Merrifield and things start getting ugly. After Merrifield doubles I'd definitely have someone up and throwing and I don't believe that happened so Rocco deserves some heat there. I think it's also reasonable if people think he should've had a lefty ready for Benintendi. Witt is also hitting about .220 this year so you'd expect him to get the out there. Then he gets Dozier. I get why people are upset, but I think when you look at how it played out it's not a terribly egregious decision. Guy on first, 2 outs turned into 3 runs in in a matter of 4 more hitters. If your relievers can't get 1 out in 4 hitters you're in trouble no matter what. Certainly reasonable that people would want someone ready for Benintendi, but by then the game was already tied. Tied is certainly better than trailing, but nobody can argue in good faith that they'd have taken Duffey out with 1 on 2 outs or 2 on 2 outs before Merrifield doubled. Offense not scoring with the bases loaded 0 outs is far more egregious in my mind.

Buxton playing through injury and getting mandatory rest/completely out of the game days, Correa getting rest days, and now Polanco being out for multiple days in a row is why they don't have 14 pitchers. If you're going to shorten your bench by 1 guy every game you need an extra bench guy. But they need to be at 13 pitchers after this weekend anyways. I do agree it's not great that they haven't been carrying 14 arms when they could be with these 18 games in 17 days or whatever the number is.

I can understand getting him some work in left since he's never played it before, but don't agree that he needs to get extra work at 3B if he's ready to hit in the majors. He's a better 3B now than Arraez is and they play Arraez there to get his bat in the lineup (before he was forced to 1B where they were ok with him playing a new position to get his bat in the lineup). Don't think it's the end of the world to get Lewis more work, but if Gordon continues to look like he does or Polanco continues to struggle with his ankle hurting or Urshela doesn't get his OPS up to at least .700 or Miranda keeps struggling and they start losing games while Lewis is mashing in AAA it's a massive mistake. This offense isn't good enough to ignore Lewis if he's one of their best bats.

Will be very interesting to see what they do with Lewis and Kirilloff. What will it take for Kirilloff to convince the FO that he's healthy/ready? If they feel he's ready would he replace Miranda even though he's not a righty? What does it take for Lewis to supplant Gordon knowing Gordon is likely lost to a rebuilding team if they try to send him back down? Is the only hope for either of them an injury to a current big leaguer? Be interesting to follow for sure. Hajjar looks like he's mastered A ball and is ready for a bump up to A+. As a 2nd round pick college arm I'd think they'd be willing to make that move pretty quick and challenge him a bit with relatively quick promotions as earned. Has anyone been watching games and know what Martin has been looking like? Are there changes to his swing and/or approach? That'd make me less concerned with his overall numbers if he's trying to make adjustments on the fly.

They are definitely going to need bullpen reinforcements. Maybe sooner than later. Problem is I don't know where that comes from. A trade sounds all well and good, but there has to be a team willing to deal in May, and you rarely find that. I sure hope there's internal conversations about a plan to bolster the pen, though. Canterino ready soon? Alcala still has 2 weeks on the IL, if I'm not mistaken. If Canterino could come up and be a 2 inning guy a couple times a week and Alcala can come back and resemble the guy he was at the end of last year that'd be huge. But I think some prospects need to head out for more established arms at some point. I'd prefer soon, but it's difficult to convince another team to trade guys in May.

I believe the move was Vallimont DFA and Megill taking the 40-man spot.

It's a tweet. They're limited on how many characters they have. It's 1 of dozens they send out during a game. And the name is a link to that player's twitter page. Not much they can do about the restraints of twitter unless they have roughly $44 billion and want to buy twitter.

Is the suggestion that Rocco should constantly warmup 2 relievers at all times? Seems like an awful lot of unnecessary throws on all of their arms. When you put a reliever in for a clean inning you're not going to have another guy up and throwing immediately. There's a needed gap in time to get another guy loose and ready to go before you can take a reliever out. The Twins lead all of baseball in bullpen WPA. So arguing that Rocco doesn't manage his pen well is suggesting that they should have an even bigger lead than they already do over every other pen in the entirety of major league baseball. Maybe it's not that he doesn't know how to manage a pen, but that he doesn't manage them the way you want him to ?‍♂️

When it comes to knowing how to play 3B? Did he forget? Are grounders different now? Is the throw further now? Again, quit acting like he forgot how to play baseball or field a grounder. 3B is not so complicated that he needs 12 games of experience now to be able to play it. That's my problem with all of this. People are acting like he didn't play any baseball for 2 years and simply forgot how to do it.

I don't expect him to continue to keep hitting like he did. I expect him to have struggles when the pitchers adjust. Then he needs to figure out how to adjust back. That's the life of a major league hitter. He can't do that in AAA. He needs to learn to adjust to major league pitchers and how they get him out. Sending him down because he's going to have struggles in the future isn't to his benefit it's to his detriment. So you expect him back up in the next 4 weeks or so? If he played half his games at 3B during that time it'd be "like 12 games" at 3B (3 games a week for 4 weeks). So 12 games matters now, but 12 previous games don't? Why are we acting like the kid forgot how to play baseball and hasn't swung a bat or fielded a grounder in 2 years. He played baseball that first season. It's where he adjusted his swing and made strides in his fielding. His rehab from surgery included playing baseball. He's been playing for months now and succeeding. People may have expected him to start slow, but he didn't. He's playing well. Bringing up 2 missed years as a reason why he can't play now even though he's currently playing well blows my mind.

The team has already said he's going to be moving around the field at AAA. Gardenhire confirmed it last night. He's down there to get used to other positions to be ready when he's needed in the bigs again. I haven't seen anyone suggest he's a guaranteed a top half of the order hitter. The claims are he is right now. He is/was currently performing better than over half the team at the major league level. Sending him down because he may (will) struggle later isn't a good reason. His future development depends on being able to adjust to ML pitching, not AAA. He needs to go through those struggles eventually. The Twins have sent him down to work on other positions and get ABs against inferior pitchers when he could be working on those other positions and getting ABs against the pitching he'll ultimately have to adjust to.

For the record Royce played 3B until he was a senior in high school and 109 professional innings at 3B. "Basically never played" is a misrepresentation of Royce Lewis' experience.

I think this next month+ is setup perfect for the team and FO. Build the lead by racking up wins over the next 4 series and build the confidence. Get into the meat of the schedule and see how you matchup against some of the big boys. Hopefully everyone is healthy by then and you can get a good read on where everyone is at. Then you get into July, aka trade season, and hopefully still have a lead in the division while having a clearer picture of where the team stands and you make moves to fill the holes. Certainly not predicting any massive moves that put the future in real jeopardy, but I've seen recent reports that they're still in on Montas and I'd think the Reds pitchers will be available. I don't think the team as it's currently constructed is a great playoff threat, but I think they're close enough to make a trade or 2 once they see how June goes and put themselves in a place to have a team that could make a little noise. Or at least win a game.

I was going to do some work, but now I have to go check out Law's mock, thanks a lot. Johnson, Collier, and Holliday are the 3 I'm hoping for most right now. But would be happy with one of the Cs as well.

And I'm saying it's a failure that they didn't have a plan in place for their top prospect being good. You're in the season. Games are happening. Wins and losses matter. Having to send down a guy who's performing better than all but 3 of your current major leaguers because you need to "recalculate" is a failure. Needing to "figure out a new plan" because your superstar shortstop and your top prospect shortstop are both good at baseball is a failure. I don't get how that's not considered anything but a misfire.

That's a great mischaracterization of my stance. And you literally just suggested they were confused on what to do and needed to pull off the highway to recalculate the GPS. My stance is that it's an unforced demotion of one of the best players they currently have on the roster. I've provided numerous guesses on how they could've come to the decision. I've rebutted reasons given by both posters and team officials/players. Doesn't mean I'm right. But characterizing my stance as "it's all about some misfired plan or expectation and now they are confused" is ignoring a lot and actually a complaint about an argument you literally made 45 minutes ago. But don't characterize my stance that way as it's drastically reducing the ideas I've presented.

You disprove your own point in your first paragraph. You start by saying he's going to have struggles and shouldn't be christened to the majors from here on out. I agree with both of those things. But then you point out the obvious counter in that he's going to need to go through those struggles eventually. Sending him down while he's doing well because at some point it's almost guaranteed that he has struggles is just delaying those struggles. Sending him down doesn't change that, it just makes it more likely that he goes through those challenges at a time when the team isn't playing the As, Royals, and Tigers and they're actually counting on him to have made adjustments. Lewis doesn't need to be in AAA to learn 3B. He's played it plenty throughout his life. Including 109 professional innings. There's no reason to send him to AAA to learn 3B. LF you could sell me on. I guess we'll see where they play him in AAA. But the rest of that second paragraph is just an emphasis on 1 of my 3 complaints: being surprised he was good. If it's "whoa" in anyway and they need to send him down to recalculate it means they weren't prepared for him to be ready and better than Urshela and Miranda (a guy with 1 good MLB season, and a guy with 1 good MiLB season). That's a failure. If they signed Correa knowing they had Lewis and are now surprised and confused on what to do because Correa may stay and their best prospect, who plays the same position, is good it's a failure, not an acceptable excuse. How do you not expect, and thus have a plan for, your top prospect to be good? I agree with the premise of your 3rd paragraph. It's not the end of the world. But that doesn't mean it makes sense or was necessary or that the FO doesn't deserve all the heat they're getting (including from their own players if you believe the Dan Hayes article on The Athletic). But I am thinking about June, July, August, September, and October or November when I make my complaints. He's going to struggle at some point in the majors (as we both agree on). I'd prefer that happens in May or June rather than September or October. He's going to have to make adjustments. Let's let him make them early instead of late when he's being counted on during a pennant race late in the year. And for the record this is my objective stance. I have run all the options through my head. I've read pretty much every post on here about the possibilities and read all the Twins quotes from the FO to Rocco to the players. I have yet to see one that isn't easily refuted (outside of maybe them wanting him to get some time in LF). Playing 3B isn't acceptable as he can already do it. Playing SS isn't either as he's already shown he can play it after 2 years off. "The future" isn't as he needs to go through the adjustment period so all you're doing is delaying it. Urshela standing in his way isn't as he's a potential star and Urshela is a utility IFer. It's not the end of the world, but that doesn't make it a good decision through a "neutral stance" thought process.

I expected it, and admit it's quite possible that's why I'm so cranky about the decision to send him back down. I spent all offseason saying I expected him to do what Baddoo did last year and come out of the gates on fire because he's just that naturally gifted. He's an incredibly hard worker and knew what his was holding him back. Having all of 2020 to spend on reworking his swing without having to worry about what numbers he was putting up or getting promoted or whatever else was a blessing to him. I think game reps defensively are highly overrated. It's important to build your instincts and all that, but in terms of straight up being able to make the plays that's all worked on in practice. So, again, 2020 spent doing nothing but working on his glove everyday without worrying about errors and fielding percentage was a blessing to him. Last year was a real bummer for him. But he was training and playing games during the offseason unlike many of the major leaguers were so he was more ready than them because of his rehab process. I fully expected this out of him and I think it's a failing that the FO seemed to be so surprised (or are just being overly cautious/refusing to waiver from "the plan") by his success. They know what he was looking like in 2020 and what he was looking like during his rehab process and should've been ready for this. This feels like 1 of 3 things happened/are happening: 1. They weren't prepared for him to be this good this early. In which case they did a terrible job self-scouting their own player. 2. They're being overly cautious/looking too much to the future at the cost of the present by putting so much emphasis on him getting AAA reps at SS. In my opinion this is also inexcusable as there are plenty of examples of guys moving positions on the fly in the bigs and doing well. Trea Turner being the perfect example. Kris Bryant being another one (just wasn't a SS). It was out of necessity due to injuries for Arraez and Gordon to do it, but they were both successful with it. Teams do it all the time. 3. They're refusing to alter the almighty "plan." This is kind of a combo of 1 and 2. Also find it to be an awful excuse and a major flaw for the FO if it's what's happening. I think they've shown a tendency to hold onto plans too long/be overly cautious with things, and I think it's their biggest flaw. From the outside it looks like they get blinders on and are just going to keep charging in the direction they picked until they get knocked off course and have no choice but to adjust. I think they've been outstanding at setting up the development systems and the general baseball ops practices for a winning organization. I think they need a more aggressive voice in the room to counterbalance what appears to be a large number of "play it safe" voices. Lewis going down isn't the end of the world, and neither is resting Buxton or Correa, but there needs to be some aggressiveness at some point. At least that's how I see if from the outside.