chpettit19

It's a step in the right direction. A step they should've taken a month ago, but a step none the less. But when Max is sitting there it still tempts Rocco to use him. And he ends up pinch hitting in tight spots, and, shockingly, not coming through. That's a bigger complaint with the overreliance on platooning/pinch hitting, though. I hope the middle, and end, of the end are a much quicker process than the beginning of the end has been.

I don't think that's a crazy idea, but I have concerns over Maeda's ability to get deeper than 5 innings into a start. Gray hasn't been able to get deep into starts frequently enough either. With 2 guys likely maxing out at 5 innings a start, plus a bullpen day, that's a whole lot of innings for an already struggling pen. I'd rather have those 3 work to piggy back off Gray, Maeda, and Varland. But a lot of the question, to me, is about what Varland's struggles are. Is he simply not pitching well enough? Is he too predictable? Is his stuff just not good enough? Is it some fatigue setting in? Maybe he's part of that 6th day bullpen game, but he goes 4 innings instead of 2. Do like yesterday and pair Varland and Balazovic (or Headrick) to get them through 7 or 8 innings, and actually save the pen that day while limiting those two and their exposure to multiple lineup turnover. Let De Leon, and whichever young guy isn't paired with Varland, be 2 inning guys for Maeda and Gray. Provide a little extra rest for everyone on the pitching staff going into the break, and make some decisions on the rotation coming out of it.

Yeah, between Gray spending some time on the IL every year, Ober having some inning total concerns, Maeda having health/stamina concerns, and Varland being his first big league season it feels like a short stint of a 6 man rotation going into the break could be helpful all around. If they start losing starters, or seeing serious decline from them, this team is really going nowhere. Only thing I can see Varland having to work on in AAA as far as the HR ball is concerned is if the problem is something mechanical that they think he could work out over 2 or 3 weeks and get back. Will be interesting to see how they work the rotation the rest of the year. Headrick staying stretched out as their depth in AAA is going to be pretty important, too. He's the only guy looking like he's worthy of spot starts at this point.

I'm pretty good at seeing the angle the Twins may be taking on certain things, and the logic behind it. I annoy plenty of people around here by defending some of their logic. But I literally can't see, or understand, any logic behind Kepler still being on this team. Not just being on the team, but starting basically automatically against any righty, and not just starting, but hitting 5th(!) in the lineup. Or pinch hitting late in the game in clutch situations. The logic can't be because he's good, because he clearly isn't. The logic can't be for depth reasons since he's starting, and he's playing worse than a replacement level player anyways, so you're actively starting a bad player in the name of not having to start a bad player. The logic can't be his defense since he plays an "offense first" position. My "fire or not fire" decision making point on the FO this year was their ability to adapt off "the plan" quickly if needed. They've failed. You wanted Kepler to be good. He isn't. You wanted him to build up some trade value since you apparently turned down offers in the offseason you didn't think were good enough. He hasn't, and can't at this point. He's actively hurting your team. Do your f'ing job and cut him loose. I don't know what the conversations in the FO are like these days, but there's no way they can be looking at this team and think that standing pat until the deadline is smart. They simply can't be thinking that. I don't know what the conversations in the manager's office are like these days, but there's no way they can be looking at Byron Buxton and thinking he should be hitting in the top 4 in any lineup right now. They simply can't be thinking that. But they do it. I don't see any of the logic in what the team is doing anymore. Pinch hitting for your 3 hole hitter? If he needs to be pinch hit for he shouldn't be hitting 3rd. And you shouldn't be pinch hitting for your supposed star in the making when you have at least 7 dudes in the lineup everyday who shouldn't be in any lineup. There's talent on this team. There's talent in the system. But "the plan" clearly isn't working. It's too late in the season to still be analyzing things. Time to start making actual decisions. And I really hope the Pohlads don't let these guys make "job saving" decisions, and do severe damage to the future of this organization.

The media has been asking, and Rocco has been talking about them. There have been at least half a dozen articles written about them the last couple weeks on The Athletic, MLB.com, all over. He's asked all the time. Rocco says they're a problem, says they're working on it. Now whether or not we believe they can be fixed is one thing, but the media is asking the questions, and Rocco is answering the questions. Even Popkins went on the record, and was available to the media recently to talk about the Ks. Admitted they may be overwhelming players with too much info. They clearly haven't found the answer, though.

A 6 man rotation between now and the All Star break would be an interesting move. I wonder if Louie is tiring just a bit. Not simply from inning totals, but the natural uptick in effort at the ML level over the minors. Maybe the arm isn't feeling quite as good as he'd like. A little extra rest for him, and the rest of the rotation as we get into July may be good. Allow everyone to get recharged coming out of the break and hit the ground running for the second half. The starters need to be really, really good for this team to have a chance so I could see a 6 man rotation for a couple weeks being a decent option to have everybody in as good a shape as possible for the 2nd half of the year.

Oh, I would've let Gray go out for the 5th. And I definitely don't think Rocco is great in game. But I also don't think managers matter much so I don't really give too many strong takes on them. I'm just fascinated by how confident people are that they know what relationships are like based on 5 to 10 second clips of interactions in the middle of games once a year. I argue with people I love, respect, and get along with all the time. 2 arguments in 2 years sounds like a healthy relationship to me.

You're kind of proving my overall point here. You even start by saying you don't actually know about any private complaints before going on to fill in the gaps however you choose. And, actually, Rocco, and the clubhouse atmosphere he creates, has been praised by many on their way out the door. Byron Buxton fought to stay here, and get a no trade clause. Nelson Cruz wanted to come back, and had great things to say about Rocco and the team. Luis Arraez was sad to go. Correa isn't shy about his feelings on things, and I'm sure it'd come out pretty quick if he didn't like Rocco. Shoemaker is the only guy who left and really had bad things to say, but that doesn't mean there weren't more, or that Rocco is great or anything. The fact is we don't really know anything about the clubhouse outside of reports. But people can make whatever assumptions they want about it. Typically their assumptions match their personal feelings on Rocco, and they project their feelings onto the players in the clubhouse. Sonny clearly isn't shy. If he were so upset why hasn't he demanded a trade, or actually blasted Rocco in the media? I agree Sonny is likely gone after the year, but I'm not convinced it's a 1 sided thing all about Rocco by any means. The Twins likely don't want to pay him what he's going to get in the market. They'll get a pick that's likely 10 or fewer spots lower in the draft than they used to take Petty. They'll be thrilled. But I know people will believe him leaving was some indictment of Rocco. So be it. I don't think Rocco's great, and won't shed a tear if he's fired, but I'm not going to pretend I really know what he's like in the clubhouse.

They're actually 3rd. Houston and Texas are at 5.7. Twins are at a measly 5.6. According to B-R at least.

With his health track record, I think I'd rather him have the 4 day vacation this year.

Nobody is claiming this offense is good. Or that hitting .220 with 15-20 HRs is good. It's not. Things don't "have to be" any certain way. But we've advanced. We've gained more knowledge. You're not wiser by refusing to accept new information and knowledge. Nobody has lowered standards, they've changed to a more encompassing set of standards that takes in more important information than your basic hits vs outs equation. You don't have to like it, but it's not impressive, or some badge of honor, to refuse to accept new, and better, information.

Rooker could use all the protection he can get right now. His .216/.306/.374 slash line since April ended has him looking like Max Kepler out there.

Oh, I'm sure this was the thought as well, but when you end up having a starter only go 4, and don't have your long guy, it doesn't look good. Sands being hurt is probably the biggest catalyst for them not moving Winder down for 15 days (well that and the AAA guys currently struggling outside of Headricks). I think if they have both of them healthy they bounce them back and forth throughout the year as needed when one pitches to always have someone capable of 3+ innings around. It's not a super gigantic mistake to not have a long guy, and most of the time him throwing 2 innings here and there wouldn't hurt, but it bit them this time.

They used Winder Tuesday because he hadn't been used in so long, then didn't replace him on the roster. Poor roster management.

I'm not arguing about his ranking. I honestly don't care where anyone ranks him. I think he's a really solid pitcher, and if he makes the All Star game I'll be happy for him. I'm simply pointing out that there are people outside of Twins Territory that think highly of him.

I don't think Lopez would've seen the field at all if Moran had thrown 2 scoreless innings, but that's not really here nor there. I don't know what kind of clubhouse the Twins have, and how Bass would fit into it. Pretty well accepted that Donaldson's personality didn't work in the Twins clubhouse, and that was a large part of why they wanted to move on so badly. Bass also hasn't been very good this year. 1.4 WHIP, 4.68 FIP, and fewer strikeouts than innings pitched isn't somebody I'd bend over backwards to get. I think it says a lot that he went unclaimed on waivers, and still doesn't seem to have any suitors. I don't really agree that putting Maeda in the pen is the smart move either. They're going to need starts from guys outside their current rotation still this year, and Headricks is the only other guy I see who may be a possibility there. They have a lot of work to do on the pen, but I'm not sure those 2 are the answers I'd go with.

I'm not arguing about his ranking at all. I was simply showing that it isn't just Twins fans who have him ranked highly, and as a possible all star. I don't really care where people rank him. Was just providing a national, non-Twins centric source that also rates him highly.

Yeah, my question is why you think that isn't what they did? They used 3 pitchers to get them through the last 5 innings. They've shown they trust Moran to go more than 1 inning. But he was bad in his 1 inning, and with it still being just a 1 run game they didn't want to put him out there again to give up more runs. So they went to a different middle guy in Pagan who got them the 2 innings you wanted, and kept the game a 1 run game. Are you saying you would've left Moran in for the 6th or that you don't think Moran was going to be used for 2 innings no matter what? I'm not really seeing the difference in what you're asking from what they did.

The point was simply that it isn't just Twins fans who rank him in the top 4-5 in the AL. That's a national ranking by people who have no investment in the Twins at all, and they rank him 5th in the AL. I wouldn't have him 5th, but him being a possible all star is very real.

For what it's worth, MLB.com has him ranked 6th overall in baseball right now. https://www.mlb.com/news/fifth-starting-pitcher-power-rankings-of-2023

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. That's what I was saying in the part you cut off. The Twins believe their relievers are better than many of us believe they are. That's the big disconnect in the "fresh reliever vs laboring starter" equation. You not trusting Moran vs them trusting Moran is the biggest difference in this, not the idea that a fresh arm is better than a laboring one.

Totally fair. I think it's a tough spot for a manager. I'd have put Gray back out for another inning with Moran ready to go if needed. I'd have tried to get that 5th inning out of him, though. But I don't see a lot of easy answers for a manager in a 2 run game when your starter only goes 4 (or even 5). I don't know that Moran would've been my choice if I were set on taking Gray out there, but I don't see a huge difference in him vs the other options. When you only have 3 semi-reliable relievers in close games it's awfully difficult for me to put too much blame on a manager who has a starter who just doesn't have it that day, and an offense you can't trust to score anymore runs in the game. Very few brilliant decisions to be made for this team in my opinion.

I think the general consensus was that Gray is likely gone after this year anyways. They got a deal done with Paddack. Got a deal done with Lopez. If they were looking hard at keeping Gray I'd think there'd already be reports of them discussing things, but I don't remember any (totally possible I've just forgotten, though). I think the plan was always to put a QO on him, and take their comp pick. He's never been a big inning guy. In terms of game to game, or total on the year. Well at least not since 2015. Has he been upset a couple times about individual game quick hooks? Obviously. But this is who he's been for 8 years. Throws way too many pitches, and just generally doesn't go deep in games. I think this is much ado about 2 complaints in 38 starts.

Who needs CES when you have Chris Williams?! (mostly sarcasm as I know this is a very small sample, but just wanted to have a little fun while we face CES)

That's actually the exact question that's asked in this situation. It's the Twins belief that a fresh reliever is almost always better than a laboring starter (with a whole lot of variables that make up the definitions of fresh, and laboring). I think the disconnect between them and many of us is the quality of their relievers. They seem to be bigger believers in them than many fans tend to be, and that's where the disconnect comes.