DocBauer

Yes to Carmago. The Twins need the depth and he shows some promise still. Once the Twins settle on their co-catcher, they will have to add a 3rd at some point. Might be someone like Leon. Or, they might add after the rule 5. But Carmago should be kept. I'm lukewarm on Javier. He still has a ton of talent and is only going to be 24. Maybe he's better served going elsewhere for a change of scenery. But despite poor results the past 2yrs, when you look at talent and age, I'm open to another year of "maybe this is the season it starts to click". Cabrera does little for me, but OF depth at AA isn't a bad thing so why not? Nothing says you are forced to keep him if he's simply outplayed.

John, 2 things come to mind as I reflect not only on this OP, but your podcasts. #1] No matter how anyone wants to spin the "payroll is potentially unlimited", it still is. I've never heard a Twins FO, or ANY FO, openly state what projected payroll might be. But I find comments from the FO that they have "spent more than comfortable revenue" the past few years to be interesting. (And I know I'm paraphrasing slightly). #2] Post covid, the world has changed, and so have finances for everyone, including the public. Around this time last year, there were many on TD expecting a deep cut payroll around $90M to a max of $120M. If I'm not mistaken, I believe you also fell in line with the $120M expectation. I projected a blueprint...rather different than what happened...for around $140-145M. I believed in the resources of the team and an attempt to right 2021. It didn't turn out, obviously, but my point is the FO and ownership DIDN'T cut payroll. IMO, ownership and the FO will not cut payroll, despite lower than expected attendance, yet again. Attendance is not the only cash flow to be certain. Plus, winning fixes a lot of things. And as far as I know, there is ZERO decrease is media $ or national $. And ownership seems to believe in Falvey and Levine and what they are doing, and have done. Pre-covid, the mean payroll was about $150M. The Twins have danced around 16th to 18th on average, usually within a few $M close to that delta. I believe, IIRC, they were in the top 15 once, maybe twice, in the early teens, especially for the 2010-11 squad, before this current FO, who seems to have ownership's ear. I DON'T see a slip in spending unless things just "plop" in their lap. Winning builds interest and puts butts in the seats. And even when winning works, history has shown the NEXT season puts even more butts in those seats. I expect a legitimate $50M-ish to spend. The HUGE question is whether or not a bulk of that $50M is spent on ONE player. You want to have the best players you can. I would LOVE to have Correa back! I've become a big fan for many reasons. But is the team better to have him back and spend a little here and there to augment the rest of the roster the best you can? Or use the rest of the $ money "saved" to go bigger? And that is the elephant, rhino, whale in the proverbial room! We have a lot of time to figure this all out. It's still VERY early! But for ONCE, our FO HAS to make an early decision on what's going to happen and not drag things out! They got Correa dropped in their lap, but missed out on other opportunities as they were so focused on Buck. And they just can't afford to ONLY be patient yet again. But John is absolutely right that on paper, the 2023 Twins don't have a major hole anywhere to fill other than at least an early SS question. It's very, very easy to play and dismiss the "IF" game. But it isn't very hard to see a very good OF and 1B mix. And it isn't very hard to see a solid rotation with some depth. And it isn't hard to see a pretty nice bullpen. So while there are holes and question marks, there aren't aggresious holes anywhere. But in regard to the WAY TOO EARLY SINCE THE SEASON ISNT EVEN DONE DEPARTMENT part of the conversation: 1] Kepler is NOT a 4th OF. He's a GG type RF who is league average hitting wise. He is NOT a middle of the order bat. He's a quality lower 3rd who should play some CF here and there, and sit against LHP pitching when possible. In that regard, he's 4th OF-ish. But he's still the primary RF unless or until moved. 2] Sorry if you don't like him, but Jeffers is still one of the Twins primary catchers. He calls a good game, has the confidence of the staff, has power, is about average as a hitter these days for his position, and still has upside. He needs a partner and my #1 target right now is Barnhart. He's not great offensively, but is a year removed from his career numbers of being OK with double and some HR pop. He's also a quality defensive backstop with experience. 3] Re-signing Fulmer makes so much sense, unless the FO just likes someone better. He's not a classic set-up man, but he's been damn good since his conversion about a year and a half ago. And he shouldn't cost a ton. Again, you like someone better, no issue. 4] Middle relief is a HUGE need. But when do you sign or trade for middle relief? Look, if the FO wants to sign someone for that role, OK. But shouldn't Sands, Smeltzer, if he's kept, Henriquez, maybe Dobnack, or ANY future SP option getting his feet wet in the ML should be included as a middle relief option. This just shouldn't be a problem with the number of arms on hand. It's not that hard. 6 guys you trust for 1 IP, once in a while 2, and two guys who can do more. 5) A solid, productive RH OF who can play both corner OF spots. Is that so hard to find? It shouldn't cost a fortune and is important. 6] I still believe, if at all possible, the Twins should SIGN a FA SP. If they can trade for one without HUGE cost, OK. But no more Bundy, Happ, Shoemaker types. Trust in what you have and the young arms instead. Verlander is not coming here. Correa NOT coming back, you might just roll the dice on Rodon, for example, who brings risk. Otherwise, just a solid veteran who brings depth in case crap falls apart. Trades bring risk as well. Do we really want to add another #2 and lose what we have vs trusting what is on hand? A lot of risk. It's going to be a very, very interesting offseason. But NOTHING will be known until the FO makes their one very serious move. After that.....we'll see.

Sor not buying in to the trainer as being a sacrificial lamb to cover all of the other coaches. And secondly, despite the staff NOW, that doesn't mean additional changes won't happen in the future. I think it would be a bit absurd to blame one guy for the injury factor unless he was a warlock from either Cleveland or Chicago and nobody fully checked out his bio, lol. But regardless of sport, an athletic trainer is not just a guy who tapes ankles and passes out ibuprofen. They often work hand in hand with strength coaches, and can charge be in charge of, or part of, rehab and general conditioning. I've seen enough soft tissue injuries to believe maybe a different approach was needed. But I hope the FO digs deeper. Seems as though every 4-6 week recovery time turned out to be 6-8 weeks or not at all. Maki, from what I've heard, is a pretty sharp guy who embraced everything Johnson pretty much did, but is a very different personality. So this might be a "continuation" of what is already liked. FWIW, I've heard the young Colby Suggs is considered a fast riser in the coaching ranks and very bright. He was pulled from his job as an advance pitching scout to remain with the staff after Johnson left. Supposedly the players really love Hernandez and I just don't know enough about Popkins to have an opinion. The Twins had batting statistics that were in the upper third of all of MLB and finished near the bottom in others. How can you be one of the very best teams at scoring a runner from 3rd and one of the worst at advancing a runner from 2nd? Makes no sense. There is a disconnect somewhere. But how much of that is a fluke, or on the coaches, or on the players? I have no clue. I also was very, very frustrated with Watkins at 3B and some of the waves home that looked utterly wrong. But I also saw a ton of plays where he read the defense and speed of the play well and made a great call sending the runner home. I think a 3B coach gets a lot of blame when things go bad and very little credit when things go right. It's the nature of the beast. If he's a good instructor...and I don't know that he is or isn't...I'm fine with keeping him and hoping he will do a better job on the plays that just don't look good from the beginning. I just think we sometimes remember the bad calls more than the good ones. Making no excuses for the coaches. I just don't know enough about any of their individual strengths and weaknesses to say "so and so" should be replaced. I DO THINK if they remain status quo going forward, it's up to Rocco to change the emphasis on drills and work on the basics. I don't know that you can "teach" a player to hit better with 2 outs, but by God I think you CAN teach...or at least remind...your players some of the basics of where to throw the ball and run the bases better. If he's got coaches he think can coach, then make them COACH. I am surprised about Tingler being retained. A couple of years ago he was the toast of San Diego. And then the Padres disappointed greatly the second year. So is he good or bad? He might be a really sharp baseball guy in the wrong spot. I really believe Rocco is better served with an older bench coach who has been around and seen a lot who can just offer up a different perspective. And maybe he doesn't have to be an "old timer", but someone who has experience managing in the minors and coaching, maybe managing at the ML level previously, who has just seen a lot, been there and done that, who could offer a different perspective. It's not about hating analytics or dismissing scouting reports, just someone who can offer up a different feel and perspective. I mean, just for example sake, a less firey Guillen or younger Gardenhire type. Rocco needs to make his coaches coach more. But I think they're making a mistake at bench coach.

I did some research on MLB salaries by team about a year ago and then tried again recently only to find I couldn't get more than a couple of years before I was blocked now unless a paying member. But generally speaking, from memory as well as the recent seasons I was able to look at again, you are correct that the Twins are generally in the 16-18 spot consistently in average yearly payroll. Depending on which site you look to for such information...as they calculate differently...the Twins dipped to around 20 in both 2018 and 2020. My memory wants to say they were as high as 15th one year in the teens, but I can't confirm that at the moment. Again, it must all be taken with a grain of salt as different sites calculate their numbers differently. And I must note that with a 15th ranking being the medium when based on 30 teams, several of the Twins 16-18M range has been within just a couple of $M from the mean.

He's not leaving NY. He knows it, his agent knows it, the fans know it, we know it. The question is for how much and how long. How about we talk about realistic options for 2023?

Just to get the massive elephant out of the room some food and water and tucked away safe and sound, let's just get the injury/health factor put aside. The Twins made a major turnover in their training and medical staffs 2yrs ago, IIRC. To debate, as outside visionaries, that said change was erroneous and should be done yet again is a fools errand at best. We simply don't know if they made a lateral, poor, or upward improvement. We simply aren't close enough to know or understand what has taken place on that front, IMO. Maybe the injury issue has just been a fluke. Maybe the current roster has a number of players simply prone to injury. And I allow that some player acquisitions were made for players with an "expected" injury factor. (Paddack is easy, I'm talking in general). To "predict" injuries or second injuries in many/most situations is impossible. Kirilloff's wrist injury was impossible to predict. So was each of Larnach's unrelated injuries. Nobody expected Lewis to blow out a knee once, much less twice. Sudden shoulder inflammation can't be predicted, etc, etc. Does the FO need to take a long hard look at everything from training habits to rehab to EVERYONE in the system perform pilates on a regular basis to ensure better flexibility and health? Absolutely! (I understand my pilates comment is a bit flippant, but I use it as an example where you need to look at EVERYTHING)! So let's let the poor elephant get some rest and look at what the FO needs to change and do going forward. #2] And you're reading that right, I'm starting with #2. Being patient is a sound approach that has paid SOME dividends. Cruz was brought on board by being patient. Donaldson was brought on by being patient. Correa was brought on by being patient. Both fell in their lap by being patient. So being patient does work. Donaldson was actually pretty good, and they moved him in order to move forward, which required some smart maneuvering, and allowed for Correa. Being patient allowed them to sign Lynn to the rotation which didn't turn out. Lynn was good before coming to the Twins and good after leaving. We've heard he might have had a "disappointing" attitude in his tenure, but he was a good signing initially. Waiting, being patient with the market, CAN pay dividends. But.... #1] Make a plan for 2023! And this has been maybe my biggest problem with our FO. While working out details with Buxton last offseason, it felt like they let the rest of the world just pass by. They would not have destroyed the 2022 payroll with ANY acceptable Buxton extension, yet they just ignored the pitching FA market while doing so. So the second large animal in the room is Correa. Do we name this the "hippo" in the room in order to grant the elephant some peace? He'd be very happy to stay from everything he has said and done. Are the Twins in or out? Payroll is always in flux due to attendance and media rights and MLB deals. I state fronting more $ up front makes the most sense while payroll is under control and you allow for extensions and the such, others argue about future value and future expensive contracts won't be as costly due to future media money. I still argue spending more early in a deal for more $ flexibility later. But regardless, put out a legitimate offer, and go from there. You either want to spend $30-35M a year for about 7-8yrs for a top player who would like to stay, or you don't. But you make a LEGITIMATE offer to keep him and let he and Boras decide its fair and he wants to stay or you MOVE ON. And quickly! The Twins have either 15-20M to spend for 2023 or $50-55M. But you can't let yourself be handcuffed. Terry Ryan used to go shopping early for what he wanted, though usually small deals. Falvey and Levine have adopted a patient "wait and see" attitude. What needs to happen, IMO, is a combination of BOTH. My biggest problem with our current FO is they should, each and every offseason, TARGET that one or two players they really like and want and be AGGRESSIVE to get something DONE. And THEN, be patient, sit back, and see what falls to you. Each and every season there are SP and BP arms and solid position players that are good performers who just don't get the big deals. Which is great to wait for AFTER you get what you need and want. Unfortunately, the FO, right now, is stuck in a conundrum they haven't faced before. In previous years, including 2021 and 2022, my "demand" to select who you really need and want and "go for it" and then sit back and wait for the rest works. However, the Correa situation approaching 2023 complicates what I believe to be a rather simplistic approach in general. But at the end of the day, it still comes down to "making a plan". You're either going to get this done, or you aren't. I'm honestly torn as a fan of Correa as to whether the 2023 Twins are better with or without Correa. But make a plan and stick to it. Either sign Correa and augment the rest of the roster as best you can, OR, be aggressive without Correa and move forward. Either way, be aggressive early, get what you want and need, and then be patient. There's room for both. But JUST being patient is not going to bring what this team needs to move forward.

Do I tend to be an optimist? Yes. Was I happy with all the moves made...and not made...to build the opening day roster? Absolutely not. I was OK with Sanchez as the 2nd catcher for 1yr? Yes. Did I accept Garlick as the "offensive" RH OF instead of the upgrade I've been yelling for? Not really, but I could live with him. But I was very disappointed in not only moving Rogers...not going to rehash the trade again...but they didn't add another quality RH to ADD while wanting to keeping Rogers. (In his role, not the 100% closer). I was HUGELY confused they didn't take advantage of the FA SP market, even if they didn't sign Strotman...my preference...or ANYONE other than Bundy. And Bundy would have been fine as a secondary signing, but he AND Archer was just WAY TOO LITTLE. BUT, Gray and Correa and the bulk of the team, some young talent I expected to take steps forward or at least contribute, I saw a good offense, and an OK staff that really just needed a couple young arms to help out, and I predicted about 86-88 wins and a shot to challenge the Dirty Sox for 1st. Decent health...cough-cough...and some of that young talent really stepping forward, (Larnach, Kirilloff, Miranda, Winder, Alcala, etc), and I thought they could jump to 92-92 wins. Or, an improvement of another 6 wins. My prediction looked pretty sound for the first couple of months. Even when they began to slip around July, I still saw hope with a couple guys getting healthy, some help coming from the trade deadline, and thought we'd be OK and start to "ramp up" again come August. My goodness, we were still tied for 1st to open September even with all the injuries and AAA players filling out the roster! Not sure I can remember all the wheels coming off in a season so dramatically and suddenly as this one! Whether it be for the sake of solace or perspective or simple conversation sake, I utterly dismiss the notion of Vegas predicting the Twins at around .500 and that's how it ended it. No matter any prediction, this team looked pretty good the first few months, even with some warts. Projections changed for just about anyone and everyone at that point. I have no idea what Vegas predicted for the Giants in 2021, but I doubt it was 100 wins, much less 107. So predictions are just that. Things change. Things happen. The 2022 Twins were not built as well as they could have been, or should have been. Period. But they were still better and more talented to be better than they ended this season had they been remotely healthy. And I don't think my predictions were out of line based on what we saw those first few months. Better health will be a HUGE factor in 2023. But not skimping or ignoring the margins are important to reach that 90+ win potential and be legitimately competitive.

Absolutely move on to a better option. I've been saying for at least 2yrs now we needed a RH OF who can produce and play some decent corner defense. If he could cover CF now again, that's just a bonus and not a prerequisite. Kepler and Gordon can cover CF with Buxton taking a day or two off. Celestino should be in AAA remembering how to hit again, and just "settle down" and remember how to do the small but important things that are so necessary, like running the bases and throwing to the right base. I still believe he was rushed and his head was swimming. I'd like Gaelick back on a milb deal as insurance. He does hit LHP well. His .600+ OPS against RHP isn't killer when you realize the league wide OPS, on average, for LH vs LHP is worse. But shouldn't we be aiming higher? Someone who can stay in the lineup? Someone who can play better defense and perform better to balance our LH bats? Someone who isn't a black hole when pressed in to regular duty if/when injuries happen. Time to find someone better, and it doesn't have to be some All Star, expensive stud. Just a better overall player. Period!

Very excited to see what Martin and Julien do. Naturally, I'll be following all the pitchers as well. But I think Isola will be very interesting to follow. Does he keep hitting the way he has been? It just feels like there a little more HR power just waiting to be tapped in to. But most importantly, how does he look behind the plate? The Twins, obviously, need to bring in a backstop to team with Jeffers. But they've got to have a 3rd one on the 40 man. Could that be Isola or Carmago, who I'm guessing will play winter ball?

I was not aware of a new pitch. I have been aware of much better numbers as of late. And Ted makes an interesting point in the OP. But it's one I just can't buy in to. A 3 year history of poor performance and a preponderance of hanging/grooving at least one pitch each appearance, I'm just not willing to buy in after 16 IP. We have other, younger, less expensive arms with promise to be auditioning and using in middle relief. We also have to take a 52 man player roster down to about 30 in order to sign at least a couple quality FA and protect 4-6 young players eligible for rule 5. Do we really want Pagan taking up one of those spots??? It gets a lot harder once you get past those first dozen or so that are pretty obvious. I think it's time for everyone to move on.

Miranda was about everything I think we could have hoped for, once he settled in. He also got much more comfortable at 1B as time went on. IMO, he's OK at 3B and will only get better. It's actually his most familiar position. Too many health questions, unfortunately, for some of the young players, I'd like to keep Urshela around another year, if possible, and let Miranda rotate between 3B and 1B like this year. While I believe he would be just fine at 3B, I'm not sure someone like Lee doesn't push him to 1B on a more permanent basis e eventually. I remain convinced Lewis is a special player if healthy and has all the tools to be a fine SS. I'm not going to predict greatness with the glove, but at least good with the potential to be very good/great. When the Twins were desperate for offense, I felt Wallner should have been brought up sooner as a hopeful wild card. His early adjustment seems to warrant that notion. Most impressed by his continued production and season long improvement across the board at 2 levels. In an ideal world, good health for the OF might allow him to begin 2023 at St Paul to just refine a couple of things before he comes up for good. But I think his bat will play at the ML level. Contreras disappointed me. The defense looked solid, as advertised. And I didn't expect a lot from his bat, but I did expect more. His future is probably with a different club and a different opportunity, but still, I liked having him around as a potential AAAA type. And I was definitely disappointed in Palacious as a hitter. He hit in A ball, suddenly couldn't hit a lick in the Tampa system, and then really turned it around back with the Twins in 2021. After a great winter, his bat again looked solid in AAA this year. But he did next to nothing in his brief time with the Twins until his last few games. Was it just SSS and adjustments as well as sporadic play? I was really hoping he might show enough to be OK as a temporary SS option to begin 2023 as the glove plays.

I think it goes without saying Duran looks pretty special. I really liked what little I actually saw of Varland. I think the composure really impressed me. I don't know if he starts with the Twins out of the gate next year, but I expect him to see a lot of action. SWR looked good in his lone start. But what's impressed me was how good he was at 2 different levels while being so young and rebounding from a very crazy 2021. Like Varland, I expect him to get time in 2023 with the Twins. I believe Moran was still a rookie and I liked what I saw. His control seemed better as the year moves along and he was just nasty at times. I think he's a keeper. Even though his K's were down, I liked Winder a lot before his shoulder barked at him. Really hoping it was just a fatigue situation and he'll be 100% next year. I think he's got a shot to be as good as Varland, SWR, or anyone else. Do Henriquez and Sands move to the pen? I don't like to move a young arm out of the rotation too early, but these 2 and everyone else could fill an important role as middle/long men, at least initially. Can always move back to the rotation later, much like the Cardinals are noted for doing. Sands disappointed this year overall. Terribly inconsistent. But when I look at a rookie arm I'm looking at velocity for sure, but also, does he have a breaking ball? Sands has both. Can he harness his stuff? We'll see. Some very solid work and some disappointments from this class. But you can see the arm talent. Who am I looking forward to seeing next year? Festa, Balazovic, Enlow, Headrick, and Prielipp are at the top of my list, even though I'm leaving out a couple of others. I don't expect Festa or Prielipp to debut, but i want to see how close they can get. Balazovic to rebound. Enlow to re-establish how good he was looking before his injury, (his trajectory was looking way up). And Headrick because he's LH, and might be an outstanding arm for one of the middle/long spots in the pen very soon.

I like Correa. I've become a fan of his. Despite his final numbers looking good, I don't believe he produced up to his contract and reputation. He was just too often invisible at the plate the 1st half. And I know a late start and his illness was probably part of that. But I think he's a great player, better than his production in 2022, and has a very good career going forward. He's not old! But he is one year older now. I've always had a hard time buying in to the 10yr $350M idea. Just because Texas did almost the same with Seager doesn't mean someone else will be willing to do the same, or better that deal. The Yankees have to re-sign Judge. Period! And they've been very protective of their young SS prospects. Even with their ultra deep pockets, they've been best when building from within. And even they have a budget. So I say no. Boston, LA, and Atlanta have what they need already in place if they just re-sign and keep continuity. Why would they spend, potentially, even more rather than keep what they have? Of course, I'd they did, now there's a new SS player in the field looking for a team and a deal and that changes the complexion of things. I don't buy in to the Cubs or the Cardinals. Despite deep pockets, the Cubs ownership seems to have a history of being frugal. They went all in a couple years ago and then tore things down. Just a hunch, but I don't think they feel they are ready to make that kind of 1 player splash right now. The Cardinals have ALWAYS been one of the best run franchises in all of MLB. And they haven't been adverse to spending good $ on a great ballplayer. But they are already very good, and don't they have to try re-sign Arenado? The Phillies, Angels, Giants and Dirty Sox make sense to me as competition. The Philles haven't been shy lately about spending to chase winning. They're chasing both Atlanta and the Mets right now. Are they willing to add another big name and contract to get it done? The Giants have made splashes before. But after riding career highs from just about everyone in 2021 and then falling way back this season, are they looking a re-build or re-load? The Dirty Sox have Anderson at SS already. They are an interesting mix of veterans and youth. Can they convince Anderson to move to a different spot? They might be a real player to help erase 2022. And the Angels, to me, are the mystery team. They have $! They need pitching and keep losing despite having 2 of the best players in all of MLB. The SP FA market isn't as good as last year, and their huge run at drafting only pitching isn't going to pay off for a couple of years. But they seem to have a history of making moves well outside the box. Might they just blow Correa and Boras out of the water to add a 3rd star player without having a complete team and hope pitching turns out soon? IMO, the teams to seriously sign Correa, in no exact order are the Phillies, Giants, Angels and MAYBE the Dirty Sox. This makes sense to me. (I think it would be a mistake for the Angels and Sox, but who knows). I'm thinking depressed value, only slightly, due to one year older and post covid attendance, etc, etc, at 8yrs and $280M. (Remember, he already got $35M this year). Going to say this one more time and then I promise myself I won't get drawn in to yet another "Correa what if" thread ever again. The Twins will not get a hometown discount from Correa/Boras unless we're talking about very close numbers and Correa and family really, really liking Minnesota. The only way he re-signs here is: 1] The market is depressed due to existing payrolls, low attendance affecting payrolls, teams up against their numbers, potential landing sites wanting to keep their own players, etc. 2] Even with factor #1, the Twins will need to go at least 7yrs, possibly 8, which would take him to age 34-35, at around $30-35M per...depending again on factor #1...which means a MINIMUM of $210M and probably closer to $270-280M. And they would have to probably front load the deal, which they could, at $35-40M the first few years to help offset the last few years when Correa probably declines and maybe changes positions. That's it. 7 or 8 years and front loaded and knowing he won't be the same player in his last couple of years, probably. Hell, maybe he pulls a Ripken and can still be a quality SS who produces at that age. And MAYBE, for various reasons, the market just goes unexpectedly dry and he has to "settle" for 6-7 years only and "only" $30M on average per year. I know, fantasy land, right? But I've seen crazier things happen. Sorry, but unless the market or the Twins go nuts, he's not coming back. Time for plan B. Honestly, as much as I'm a fan of Correa and would love to keep him somehow, are the Twins maybe better off spending his salary over the entire ark of the team rather than the one player????

How can Rocco regain Twins fans favor? Win. But even that won't change opinions already entrenched in some people's minds. But imploring him to "win" is so simplistic. He needs the players to be good enough to WIN. Again, rather simplistic. Too simplistic. There IS talent on this roster, and talent still arriving, and soon, as well as still developing. I.E., the young arms in particular, who seldom if ever arrive as a finished product. A couple solid moves to augment what is already here and better health than the almost historical amount of injuries actually makes this a pretty good team. Look, I like Rocco as a person, but I'm no defender of his. Personally, I think he's a pretty average manager at this point. Can he adapt and learn and grow? Hopefully. On the positive side of things, I think his players like working under him. Since he's been in charge, the clubhouse has largely been a harmonious one. Other than some comments made by Shoemaker after he was gone, I've never heard a single player speak ill of Rocco, or the FO for that matter. And I don't buy that the players don't play hard or "give up". I've seen too many games, including this season, where they lost to better teams but still showed effort and took some of those games to extra innings by battling back. We have to remember, back up and AAA or AAAA players are what they are at times, because they aren't as good, or not good enough YET, to be regulars. When you play lesser talent, you get poorer results. But there is, IMO, a definite poor side to Rocco as a manager. I believe some of the basic fundamentals of good defense, throwing to the right base, backing up properly, running the bases properly, are things that ARE in control of a manager and his staff. Should players...good players...already know that stuff? ABSOLUTELY! But that doesn't mean good, sound, fundamental baseball can't or shouldn't be drilled and worked on. And I don't mean being a drill sergeant on days off or pre-game, I just mean continuing to work on and do the basics and improve on them. That's on the manager and his staff and I don't think there's been enough of that. Small ball is not an answer, to those who miss it. As pointed out previously, bunts lead to outs. Stolen bases only work when you have guys who can be successful at least 75% of the time. Now, that doesn't mean there aren't times when a bunt is a good strategy. Leon pulled off a couple great bunts once he came to us, because he knows how to. (It's a lost art really). And when your team is struggling to score, or advance runners from 2B, YES, it's OK for the manager to call for a bunt or play some hit and run once in a while. But it's not going to be a daily strategy, nor should it be, and not only does the situation matter, but so does the guy up to bat. Not much worse than a SO throw out type of scenario to kill an inning. The ML average of a SP is 5.2 IP. The Twins were 4.8. That's a full IP difference. Not good. But when Archer and Bundy are in your rotation, and you're brining up rookies and AAAA starters your hands are going to be tied. A healthier and stronger rotation allows 5-6 IP and not 4-5 IP. That's not on Rocco. NOW, I DO AGREE that Rocco has pulled a SP having a very good performance too early at times. I understand the 3rd time through an order numbers, as well as a reliever having a clean inning. The numbers are there to prove those approaches. But there ARE times to trust in that SP having a really good day and at least sending him out to see. And if anyone didn't notice, he's given Gray and Ryan both increased opportunities to go 6 or more the second half of the year. And Ober was cruising against the Dirty Sox recently and went 7. Load management is one thing, but sometimes, yes, you trust your guy and let them at least start the extra inning. I think Rocco has positives as a manager and is OK. Not great, but OK. I think just feeling the flow of the game and letting his starter get a longer shot once in a while would be good. I think trying a bunt or hit and run once in a while in a close game, or with the offense struggling is worth a shot to shake things up. And I ABSOLUTELY believe he and his staff should run drills here and there and just focus on the nuances of the game not being performed properly. He's not a great manager. But he can get better by using his experience as a player and do a better job of just "feeling the flow" of the game and drilling in the important daily parts of how to play sound baseball. I don't know how you evaluate the coaches. For every "throw your hands up" send from Watkins at 3B, there's been at least as many aggressive moves that were smart and paid off. But we really don't see what they all do, much less how well they do it. No offense to Tingler, but is he really the right guy to have Rocco's ear? After Shelton left and Bell passed away, I've been concerned about the bench coach situation. How much input does Rocco have in coaching decisions? Again, I don't know. But he DOES have control of how things are run. He doesn't have to, and really can't, change how the Twins play ball. But he DOES have the ability to take charge to work on the basics that have seemed lax at times. And he CAN trust his "player" gut more in regard to trying a few things once in a while to "make something happen". Those are the things in his control to be better at his job, hopefully help the Twins win a couple more close games, and MAYBE, gain back fan support.

After making him an overslot priority draft choice and protecting him post surgery just as he was looking like the player you drafted and then having an expected OK but not great re-hab 2022 year, do you NOT protect him again? And I'm sure you're right about DFA vs rule 5. But the end results remain the same, don't they? You keep him or risk him.

It's, late. The season is done. There's a lot of apathy I know. And the lineup is filled with AAA players and reserves. But it's still been interesting and I hope, important to see a few kids getting their opportunity to grow these last couple of weeks from Wallner to Varland to Rodriguez to the "re-habbing" Winder, etc. Very, very nice to see Ober have a solid game after a tremdous start his last time out. I really think the Twins missed Ober as much as anyone this year. He had a really nice rookie season in 2021 and is absolutely better than either Bundy or Archer. The guy mystifies me. He puts up video game numbers, but is hurt a lot. So then he re-vamps his his mechanics and adds velocity and health. He's just as good, or better, than rookie sensation Ryan in 2021, adjusting his mechanics on the fly, and gets better as the season goes on. But there is debate about IP for a rookie doing well. As if doing well isn't good enough. And he starts his 2nd season looking good before injury. And then he finishes 2022 looking very solid yet again. Ober looks like a legitimate #3-4 if healthy. Nobody wants to hear it, but with little exception, every prospect is a mid rotation starter until they prove otherwise. Pitching pipeline? Ryan is GOOD! So is Ober if he can STAY healthy, which he was in 2021 as they built him up. You want an ACE to come through the system? I do too. How many #1 ACES come up through anyone's system? You have 10 arms and 5 turn out. Two or three go to the pen. A couple turn out to be quality starters. After a couple of years, one of them turns in to a #1 starter and potential ACE. Ryan has the "attitude" of being a #1, but is an un-finished product. Ober has as good or better stuff, but is also un-finished, and needs to stay healthy. Varland and Winder and SWR and others have the ability to be top of the rotation arms at some point. But to think ANY arm is SUPPOSED to be some kind of ACE is blindingly ignorant to me. Every single young and promising young arm is still a pitcher learning and adapting. How good could Ryan, Ober, Winder, Varland and others be 2-3yrs from now? But, of course, we want the to be STUD #1 or #2 starters NOW!

Almost an impossible task to speculate since we just don't know about 2023 payroll, or how the coaches and FO feel about certain players. I mean, just as an example, do they really value Smeltzer as a 7-9 SP option with the idea he might be a great fit as a middle/long man in 2023, something they need but have been lacking the past few years? If so, he's probably a keeper. But maybe they see him as a split contract milb contract and ML invite. Just an example. 52 guys rostered right now. Just to re-hash, Archer, Bundy, Coulombe, Fulmer, Sanchez, Sachez, Hamilton, Hamilton, Leon, Correa, Sano, Cave, and Contreras all gone. 52 minus 13 brings us to 39. Personally, despite their stubbornness to hold on to Pagan, they need to add from within and they need from without. He's questionable, but I think he's gone or traded for a bag of balls. Palacios just hasn't shown anything with the bat, unfortunately, in SSS to indicate he should be kept. Romero spent almost the entire year on the IL, as did Stashak. Even if you like their arms when healthy, neither has shown enough to warrant being protected. Megill throws hard, has a really nice breaking ball, looked good early, and then looked bad. Do you keep a 31yo Garlick when you really need to find someone better? And then you come to the Smeltzer question I mentioned as an example. You MIGHT keep EITHER Pagan or Megill. But I don't see it. A healthy Alcala is better than both. You need middle arms and have a bunch of guys to look at in that role that Pagan and Megill don't fill. Smeltzer might be kept because he can potentially fill a certain role. So that's a good 6 more spots you can free up. That 33 spots with 7 open slots. Let's assume 1 quality SP to have a good rotation and depth because there are so many question marks attached to what's coming back. Add Fulmer back in, or MAYBE someone you like better. We need a catcher, and probably have to have a 3rd on the roster, which MIGHT be Leon back, or Isola, or Camargo. MAYBE. And an actual, quality, RH hitting OF is a MUST. And you almost have to find a temporary SS. So that's at least 5 you need to add, if not 6. The roster suddenly jumps to 38 or 39. One more spot opens if you leave Smeltzer off, in my isted scenario. I've counted the roster numbers 4 times and I keep coming up with 52, not 50. Is my math off? Is the Twins website showing incorrectly and a couple guys already DFA'ed are being listed? Please tell me if I've made a mistake because I keep seeing 52, letting everyone go except maybe Smeltzer, in my example, adding 5 or 6, and suddenly you're at 38-39 before you want to add someone else besides a #3 catcher. So you have room to add just 1 or 2 prospects? Unless my math is just wrong, another 2 or 3 will have to be removed in order to add. Despite a preponderance opinion the Twins have a lot of "dead weight" to let go, I don't think that's true. Do you let someone like Enlow face rule 5 after coming off surgery and risk him? Do you not protect Canterino while rehabbing him? Despite recent debate/discussion that the Twins milb system is weak, there are some good players facing rule 5 you'd like to keep and might not have room to protect, hoping they aren't selected, or are returned. And there are a couple AAAA players that might turn out OK and helpful that might look elsewhere rather than coming back on a milb deal. But ultimately, this team is not devoid of talent, even with the obvious deductions, and they might have to roll the dice on a couple of young players not protected in order to keep others.

I like the initial list and generally agree. I waiver on Severino as a strong pssible. There's a lot of talent and potential there. Is he about ready to unlock it? Would be a shame to risk losing him so close to perhaps doing so. I just don't know that he's a strong possible. Canterino has to be a lock doesn't he? TJ fixes his arm, there is just so much talent there I think you have to give him a spot. And Headrick is a virtual lock for me. Is he really a future rotation possibility? I'm not sure. But being LH and breathing and coming off a solid year, I'd be willing to bet someone grabs him. And I see him as being a perfect LH middle/long/,swing man, perhaps as early as sometime in 2023. Don't they just have to keep at least one of Carmago or Isola at catcher? Carmage is the better defensive player, it appears, and has played there more. But Isola has the better bat and is going to the AFL. Does that mean he's kept depending on his performance? Gotta keep one of them. Sisk is 100% grabbed by someone if not protected. The BB remain high, but LH and productive, I just don't see how you don't keep him. May not have room for Helman, which would be a shame if someone snagged him. At his age, he's old for a "prospect" but he's only played 4yrs of pro ball. His ability to play all over and hit, get OB, provide pop and speed has to make him intriguing as a utility player. IMO, he should have been up a month ago over some of the other promotions that have languished on the bench. I just don't know there is room to protect him. But it sure would be nice to have him back in the organization next year.

I believe Fulmer is a re-sign. Gut feeling. Unless they can grab someone better, but I'm not sure they can without serious $ being involved. I like Fulmer, but either way, he or someone better is added and Pagan is ultimately traded for a bag of balls or dropped. He's not only bad, but he doesn't have a role, IMO, going forward. The Twins have a number of young SP candidates for depth and competition and any of them could be a very good middle/long bullpen option, which is needed and been abhorantly overlooked. Which is why I think Sands is kept over Pagan. I have a good feeling about Palacios, but he hasn't shown enough in his audition to be protected unless the Twins are just convinced he will hit better given every day, or nearly so, as a fill-in while waiting for Lewis. I see him kept then. But if not, or they do sign someone on a 1yr, then he's off the 40 man. Would be nice to keep him around on a milb deal if possible.

Cave has been much better of late, more like the player he was hus first 2 years. No matter what his future in baseball, Contreras will be able to point to 2022 as being a ML ballplayer with some HR's and runs scored and knocked in. I wouldn't mind seeing both back next season for St Paul on milb deals but their future might be elsewhere. Wish Bundy had gotten his winning record for 2022, and he's been an average pitcher this season, he's taken the ball every 5th day and largely given the team a chance, but he should be in a different uniform next year. Despite getting hung with the loss today, Henriquez seemed to finish his time at St Paul on the upswing and hasn't looked bad with the Twins. I don't like pulling SP candidates out of the rotation too early...understanding they can still return...but I think he might be a mid/long relief candidate in 2023. No matter how the pen is ultimately constructed next year, the Twins simply can't ignore the role of middle inning arms any longer. It would be nice to have 2. Having a LH would be a bonus, but not a necessity. Any starter not in the rotation should be under consideration for such a role. Henriquez is one of those to consider. Really looking forward to SWR's ML debut Sunday!

I could have been a little more clear in some of what I said. Too many thoughts all at once. I'll try to sort it with a little more clarity and brevity. Yes to keeping Urshela. No to an extension as he's not part of the future. Yes, I think Miranda is OK at 3B and will get better, hence, younger and the better bat, he's clearly the better overall player and part of the future, or the "new core". Maybe, that Miranda is the full time future 3B. He can be! But Lee just might end up an even better fit there, or possibly Lewis depending on how SS turns out. (Which is still obviously a mystery). AK is also in the mix at 1B and could be outstanding there and at the plate. He might take a while after this surgery to get back, he might be 100% right away, and it might not work. So Miranda could end up at 3B or 1B or do what he's doing now and play both. My whole was an attempt to say good players and depth is needed, wanted, and a good thing. That's why having Urshela back is smart. It's why Miraanda's flexibility is a good thing. In an ideal world, at this point next year, we'll have Kirilloff, Arraez, Miranda, Polanco, Lewis, Lee, and Gordon all ready to be part of 2024 is some configuration. You can never have enough good players. I'm not with you on moving Polanco. He was great last year and good again this year until injured. I want to say he was leading the team in RBI and 2nd or 3rd in OPS before he went down. Anyway, I'm not sure yet when Julien is going to be ready, and is he sticking at 2B? I think Martin is headed to the OF and will cover some INF, but not be a fixture there. (A hunch). And while Lee or Lewis could also be excellent 2B, until we see how the rest of the INF shakes out, the last thing I want to do is create another potential hole. Besides, a healthy Polanco is just damn good and I'm not ready to move on at this time. But, I'd be willing to re-visit your idea next offseason, if not the trade deadline this upcoming season.

Stringer, first off, just an excellent post and I think you hit just about everything on the nail head. Honest truth, robbed a little thunder of what I'm wanting to post myself in a blog. I really appreciated one of your initial comments about trying to figure out how the Twins can possibly fit all their position players on the roster at one point. I'm in the same boat both then, and looking at next year. Despite the naysayers, I'm very excited about the POTENTIAL of the lineup in 2023. Other than SS, there isn't a major hole anywhere on the roster with a return to health. Amazing that a team can hit, get OB, and be amongst the best in all MLB getting a runner in from 3B but be amongst the worst at getting runners advanced or IN from 2B. There is a disconnect somewhere that is hard to quantify. I think, in retrospect, the early SP was a bit of an illusion. Bundy has actually been about what most teams would love to have in a 5th starter. The problem was, that role fell to Archer, who never took a step forward. And while Gray was very good, and Ryan had a wonderful rookie season, they were doomed by not adding someone from a tremendous FA class. My goodness, how much better would the rotation have been if they had signed Cueto, as rumored. Ignoring the pen was ridiculous. Even with a healthy Alcala, the pen needed an arm, and NOT Pagan. The lack of middle relief was a maddening downfall! And despite a team not exactly put together anything close to perfect, I just don't understand anyone not looking at injuries to just about everyone and anyone as not being a devastating blow to a contending team. And I don't think I even have to discuss injuries to the staff. (Ober was vastly missed and nobody talks about that). But how much better is the lineup with potential hitters like AK and Larnach and a healthy Kepler and Polanco beyond July? Instead, August and September, as you stated, the lineup was filled with a pair of Hamiltons and Cave and Contreras. And let's not forget having Beckham as an "emergency" player off the bench. Sheesh! How do you score runs at that point! Agreed there will be some roster turnover. It has to happen. Jeffers needs someone. A quality RH OF is needed. Fulmer needs to be re-signed or replaced adequately. And if Correa is not re-signed, not only do we need to figure out a temp situation, but we have to decide if there is a SP available to add to hedge bets vs just filling in with a young arm and hoping for the best. Agreed there is just too much talent on hand to tear things down. My goodness, with health and just a handful of smart additions, this team could be primed to win the ALC and make noise in the playoffs. But the FO HAS to make those few smart additions to add to the roster as well as hedging bets against injury. I'm an optimist about 2023 if the FO is smart and fills a couple holes and "over does" the roster a bit.

Just want to say I'd give this post a double LIKE if I could!

I absolutely keep Urshela around for that $10M unless there is just a $ crunch where that $ could be spent as part of an even better addition somewhere. You need depth, options, and good ballplayers across the board. And Urshela is a good player. Period. But he's not great, and not part of the future. He makes great plays and passes my eye test. He's fine defensively, but also fails to make some average plays at times. And that's fine! Some of us are just going to have to agree to disagree in regard to Miranda's defense. I've watched enough of him at 3B to believe he's just fine, with room to get better. And that happens by playing. Just really surprised by a rookie being pigeon holed so quickly as being "bad" because of a couple bad plays and a few more at a position, 1B, that's still relatively new to him. Miranda is OK at 3B and has the better bat. But the Urshela, Miranda, and Arraez grouping between 3B/1B/DH worked really well this year and can again. But as much as I like Urshela and want him back, it would only be on the 1yr deal. Miranda is flatly the better bat and part of the future. All that being said, I'm not 100%,convinced that Miranda WILL BE the 3B of the future. That just might be Lee or Lewis with Miranda doing what he is doing now, playing both 1B and 3B. We ALL hope AK will get right and have the kind of career always projected as a 1B/OF. But until we KNOW, Urshela gives you a quality player to plug in at 3B and in the lower 3rd of the lineup. I think Martin is destined to be a part of the OF picture with the ability to plug a spot here and there in the INF. That still leaves Miranda, Lewis, Lee, Arraez, and maybe Julien somewhere to cover all across the INF along with Gordon and HOPEFULLY AK. But that's the future and not NOW. Urshela IS a "bird in the hand", and a pretty good one. The one thing I WOULD DO with Urshela in ST is move him around some. He has very limited experience at 1B and 2B, but he's definitely played some SS before, including with the Yankees. I don't know how good/bad/average he is there. But if he's at least average, or "ish" there, it increases his value when putting together a lineup, especially early in 2023 waiting on Lewis, potentially. If things break right, and Lewis comes back reasonably early, and AK is ready anywhere from early to June-ish, what's the worst case scenario??? You suddenly have too much talent and not enough room??? Boy, that's a problem I'd love to see the Twins have! KEEP HIM! But no extension at this time.

No question he's a keeper. Too talented for anyone to give up on after a bad year. He's got a great frame, velocity and some solid secondaries. His 2021 was solid, but a mixed bag. He was dominate at times, pretty average at times, but had a decent year overall. A few bumps in the road, especially if he's working on things or trying something different, aren't unexpected. I was thinking his early setback in 2022 was a knee. The bad back makes more sense. He started late, may have been stiff, hard to know, and I've been of the belief that his mechanics were just really screwed up. If he was actually still injured, he would have been put on the IL. I've said before and say again, I think his biggest problem was between the ears. Mechanics are out of whack, you fight to get them right, all the while you're frustrated because nothing seems to work right. But no question 2023 will be big for his future. He's talented enough and young enough a little time at St Paul won't be a bad thing. But we do need to see the Jordy Blaze of old and maybe some ML time, even at the end of the year, to see that he's still got the future envisioned for him.