Beast

Well, so much for the “we tried and finished second,” narrative that I knew was fraudulent from the beginning. This tells me one of two things: 1) This is one I suspected all along. The Twins didn’t want this sign Carlos Correa. They wanted to be in the negotiations for PR purposes, but have known from the jump they weren’t signing him. This is why they acquired Farmer in what seemed to be a head scratcher if they were all-in on Correa. If they wanted him badly and he wanted to come back, they could easily afford to sign him (vs. the $285). They intentionally find an offer they know will be surpassed, and leak them to the press. or 2) Correa didn’t want to come back here. This is plausible to me also. This franchise has loser engrained so deeply into its DNA, that he knew he had no chance of winning anything over those 10 years. They will never take a significant risk in an attempt to bring a championship here. It’s nothing but fear and loathing over a “bad contracts.” Of course he’s going to publicly say he likes it here. Doesn’t make it even remotely true. Maybe this was all done in good faith by both parties. But, I just don’t see that as likely. If so, it further demonstrates the incompetence of this Front Office to put their eggs in one basket and come up short multiple times.

This seems to be widely considered a successful outcome. Which, just further solidifies my opinion that they need to bring quality players in via free agency if they want to do more than pop up, win a crap division, and be summarily dismissed from the playoffs while offering no resistance once or twice a decade. The development of a talent rich farm went extremely well….and we still stink. Yet, many want to continue kick this can down the road…”the time will be right in a few years when the NEXT prospect group is here.” When they’re here, it will be the NEXT group, and so on.

A step back isn’t an option, it’s an inevitability. They never had all their eggs in the Correa basket. They just wanted us to think that. How do I know? They offered 10 years 285. How that relates to historical Twins’ contracts, etc. doesn’t matter. They weren’t even in the ballpark. If they put all of their eggs in that basket, they’re completely incompetent. You can’t reach these heights in the baseball world and be that idiotic. This was intentional. It’s a tactic we’ve seen them employ numerous times now. They “focus” on one player. Come in second place. Let the whole world know they tried so hard they almost died. Then “oops, all that’s left is Joey Gallo on a 1 year deal.” Theres just no way a reasonable person thinks that deal gets the job after seeing all of the other SS deals out there. They knew it wouldn’t. Another dead giveaway this was BS from the beginning: the Pohlads expresses their burning desire to bring Correa back. They just wanted it so dang badly. Honestly guys. They’re seriously serious about spending so much money…..Thou doth protest too much. Looks to me like they’re desperately trying to cut salary and convince fans they’re doing otherwise at the same time. Aka, swindling us. There’s a fair amount of people who buy it. Some even openly gaslight and coerce others through insults into thinking the attempts were legit, and that they’re just geniuses staying the only path the victory. But, many are rightfully seeing through this charade and are getting fed up. We’ve watched this same story for 30 years. They’re dangerously close to decimating this base more than already have. Levels of fan apathy never before seen here. Mix that in a bowl with an economy going down the crapper…..that stadium is going to be empty.

How dare you? The Twins are a small market team (which definitely is not a self-fulfilling prophecy) that made a genius move by not signing an elite MLB player. Looking at it any differently means you have no idea how to make other people think you’re a good ball guy.

One of the few media members left not so concerned about their place in clubhouse postgame buffet line that they refuse to criticize when due. Those upset about Patrick being there are the same who legitimately believe the Twins are better off signing only league minimum contracts until some imaginary magical star alignment in the distant future. Interesting.

Lol. No they’re not. After dozens of reports like this over the years, and only winding up the rotting corpse of Josh Donaldson for peanuts….these reports should be met only with ridicule.

I’d be happier with them blowing it up at this point instead of continuing with their embarrassing charade. Nobody in their right mind could possibly think this is a competitive roster. I’m not supporting a half-assed attempt at competing (which is their style). I’m more likely to praise the front office and support the team for growing a spine, admitting they’ve screwed the proverbial pooch roster-wise, and blow it up. This isn’t just Correa that P’s me off, as everyone seems to think. It’s not that they didn’t pay $350 over 13 years. I get that. But, they’ve made a series of awful decisions over a number of years that painted them into a corner where the only move was to get themselves into a bidding war they never had a chance in for PR purposes. Leaking reports of these “offers,” etc. knowing from day 1 they weren’t willing to enter the same universe as real teams (no, I don’t consider the Twins a real MLB team, they’re a punching bag. The fall guy. An NPC). This was BS from day 1. The lead up and sickening bald-faced lip service during the process to try and trick as many fans as possible into sticking around is what pisses me off. Quit the constant twisting and manipulative PR crap, and just do you damn job. Then explain to fans what your actual job is and what you’re actually doing. People respect honesty. These dirty used car salesman tactics the Pohlads keep troweling out disgusts me. I have more respect for franchises like the Royals who don’t try to convince their fan base they’re “all-in,” etc. I never want to hear the terms “all-in” or “compete” or “win” out of these losers mouths every again. The incompetence is just incredible. From top to bottom.

New to Twins fandom?

Nothing, probably. They’ve run this thing into the ground. Nobody cares anymore (or, very few, anyway). They’ve lost the trust of the fan base with the “we’ll go all in when the time is right,” premise. People know they’re swindlers. They just don’t make moves to win baseball. It’s all PR, profit maximization, etc. They didn’t sign Correa because they thought it was lead to success. It was a deal with any easy that they could market and turn into a quick money grab until he opted out and walked. A couple times a decade when they look like they have a real chance, they get left behind at the trade deadline and absolutely obliterated in the playoffs. One of the richest ownership groups in the league once had many fans convinced that spending will destroy the franchise. There’s clearly still many left with severe Stockholm syndrome left that drone that mantra like zombies. But, for many the spell is wearing off. Frankly, they need a wake up call. I hope that place is embarrassingly empty. For one, I won’t invest a dollar until they prove they’re willing to (no, signing a washed up Josh Donaldson, and a once in a lifetime one year deal for Correa after a pandemic, doesn’t negate that fact). There is just no hope, here. Their absolute commitment to being non-competitive and sucking every dollar they can since buying the team has ruined baseball in Minnesota. They lied to our faces in order for us to allow them syphon money from the tax base for their stadium. Again, only to rip us off for a financial windfall for the family. They’ve been one of the most inept franchises in the MLB since that place opened. Then, on top of it, they’re so damn tone deaf and out of touch with reality, they they make some big event out of announcing another massive nepotistic move. “Guys, we gave Joe Pohlad a lofty title that he didn’t earn! Everybody applaud him!” For me, it’s almost getting to the point where the Pohlads are supervillains. Easily on the list of worst ownership groups in sports. I’m terms of results (have they ever made a good decision?, I challenge you to point to one) and just general likeability. This thing is just dead on arrival as long as they’re in charge. Not only does it frustrate fans. But just imagine everyone tied to the franchise. Imagine how it impacts places like this website. Podcasts. Restaurants and bars around the stadium. They’re screwing everybody.

I just don’t get fans’ reactions. It’s not “too much.” It’s market value. This is what these players cost now. If you want to be good, pay it. If you don’t want to pay it, enjoy losing every year, and pray for an outlier every 25 years when you hit the prospect lottery (until they leave for the Yankees or Giants for real money). What bullet did we dodge? The team might stink 8 years from now as Correa declines? It’s dodging a bullet to be a non-competitive franchise every year vs. some hypothetical year down the road? I just want to grab people by the shoulder and shake them. “Wake up! Moneyball is dead - in fact - it was never alive! The As didn’t win anything. Stop it!” It’s not a viable strategy. Never has been. Never will be. I don’t care what their level of “try” was. They failed. Again. Just like they always do. They’re losers. Plain and simple. Quit making excuses and handing out head pats. Get the freaking job done for once. Im glad people take such joy in the Pohlads saving money for something down the road. That hypothetical future year that we’ve been waiting for since they bought the team when they’ll take winning seriously and invest. We’ve talked about that through how many waves of prospects, losing seasons, and playoff ass kickings now? Are we going to keep going down this insane path expecting to win something? If you’re fine with being a perpetual loser with no hope…good for you. As much as you may think it doesn’t make you a superior fan. Same thing every year. It’s like Stockholm syndrome. People here throw a party that we “avoided” signing high-end free agents….and then we proceed to get our asses kicked by the teams that signed them. We ignore all of the success stories, and find the one bust and say “See! you can’t sign free agents!” It’s asinine. Almost to the point of being comical.

We need to give the guys in the FO some credit. They are not dumb enough to focus on one player that they have little chance of signing (Correa), and don’t notice as everyone else flies off the board. It wouldn’t take a genius to see this play out, and pivot to salvage something. There’s two possibilities, here: They’re extremely confident they’ll get Correa back. Or, they’re employing a PR strategy by which they can CYA. They stay in the conversation, but never cross a threshold that would get something done. Then, in the press conference, we get the usual “we pushed hard but came up short,” “it’s a two-way street, they players need to want to play here,” etc. etc. In other words, lying right to their fanbase’s face.

I think it’s fairly likely he’s peaked. I don’t think the guy will be able to stay healthy, unfortunately. It’s already an issue. Its possible he finds a way to hit for more power and keep his knees/legs healthy. I certainly hope so.

You think the Phillies’ fans would trade places with Twins’ fans? Lol. No way. Add the Angels to that list. Probably even the Rangers. Their FOs are aggressive and give fans hope. The Angels currently have arguably 2 of the 3 best players on the planet. The Rangers are signing everybody. It would be fun as hell. Nobody cares about squeaking out the worst division in baseball and getting absolutely pulverized out of the playoffs. 2 of the last 3 you mentioned have won the World Series more recently. All have won a playoff game more recently. Nobody on the planet is envious of Twins’ fans, dude. We’re thought of in the same category as the Pirates, Royals, etc. Cannon fodder for teams that invest in their players.

Can’t be true. Only large market teams can spend.otherwise the franchise will self destruct. Why do we act like the TV deal is something outside of the Twins’ control? Generate more interest in the team. Negotiate better. It’s not an excuse, it’s another level of indictment. And who cares what the rest of the division is doing?

If we’re never going to sign good players because it needs to meet this irrational, unattainable threshold of “making sense” and “fitting into the process,” how can you give away prospects for a player like d’Arnaud with a straight face? If we are going into spring training with that being the marquee off-season move - shut the whole thing down for all I care. See if contraction is still an option, move to Vegas, whatever. I’m done. If they do that to supplement bringing back Correa and a quality bullpen arm or two - I’m listening. I still won’t feel good about the way this steaming heap is being run, but I may be somewhat interested in the team’s performance.

They love and would do anything to keep him. Buuuuuut….at the end of the day, it has to make sense. Theres it is. By that he means he has to fall into their lap for peanuts. This off-season will end the way it always does. Some “leaks” to Wolfson or Beat Writer Du Jour that, “honestly serious, guys, we were in second place for Player X by $50….we’re are willing to spend so much money. The dice just came up snakeyes again….”

I don’t really care one way or another. He’s just not a needle mover in terms of achieving the ultimate goal. With DeGrom, Turner, Verlander, etc. already off the table (before our FO has even gotten out of bed for the off-season), I’m not optimistic about the Twins securing a true high impact player through free agency. I think we needed to be more aggressive early. Someone like the Dodgers will likely blow any offer we make to Correa out of the water. Best case scenario free agency-wise is probably something like Chris Bassit and Xander Bogaerts. More likely something like Jose Iglesias or Elvis Andrus and Andrew Heaney is the ceiling at this point. I just don’t see a realistic path that gets this team to a contender at this point. They just won’t spend enough. The bottom line is that we’re going to stink either way. Best case scenario is winning a crap division and getting nuked by a real baseball team in the playoffs. So, trade Kepler or don’t. Who cares. As you can tell, my Twins’ fan soul is crushed right now. Zero optimism they’ll make an honest attempt. If they do, zero optimism they’ll get it right. It’s really hard to get excited, or even care, about this team right now.

If he wants out of Pittsburgh, he’s not coming to the Twins. They’re probably in contention for the last team he wants to play for. Just the sad reality right now. Zero chance.

Likely higher than it actually ends up being.

My first big move: Fire Falvey and Lavine. Back the brinks truck up for Click from Astros. At least he still has the illusion of competence (whether true or not) and would get the fan base excited. Then worry about the roster, which will stink this year no matter who’s running it.

Same things that’ve gone wrong with all of their experiments. Poor roster construction and poor management. There’s nothing deep or philosophical, here. There’s nothing out of their control. The front office and management just aren’t good at their jobs relative to their peers. It’s really that simple.

I don’t see any relevance to these numbers. They can be largely attributed to uncontrollable inputs (on his part). Games played can be discarded. If management elects to not play the platinum gold glove winning shortstop for 30 games a year - they’re just morons. Some of this year’s issue is due to injury - but he’s largely durable, thus should be playing 150+ at shortstop going forward (for anyone but Baldelli). Double plays and things like that require good players and pitchers around you. Put outs in general is unusable in terms of projecting. There is no way of correlating anything there. So, do we need him? Do we need him to continue being losers? No. Would bringing back one of the best all around players in baseball (very durable and consistent) improve our chances of winning? Of course. No brainer. This pattern of numerous fans attempting to somehow “debunk” Correa as a premier player, while simultaneously fawning over the already broken down body of Luis Arraez as if he’s a first ballot Hall of Famer, is something I’ll never understand. I know the comeback will be “but the money.” Here’s what I say: Nobody cares a slap hitting first baseman, to be frank. The two aren’t even on the same planet in terms of marketability. So, how much more does he really cost the team than your next guy? How many season tickets were sold in the days following the Correa signing? How many people have gone and bought season tickets because they love watching Arrawz flip a single in front of the left fielder? People look at these things in the context of salary cap or limits, which isn’t completely valid. A dollar spent on Carlos Correa has more utility than the same dollar spread across 3 middling players. Both on and off the field.

I’d take do any three of those deals without blinking. I think people overvalue Twins prospects way too much. Wouldn’t do a deal that includes Lewis? The guy hasn’t played in 3 years. He’s a tweener defensively who isn’t a lock to stick at shortstop long-term. He has significant offensive question marks. Also, what’s his ceiling at this point? I’d you’re not protected to be lights out on either side of ball, can you realistically be projected as a star player? If the Brewers want a package containing Lewis for a durable, relatively young, front line starter - done.

There’s a telling misconception in this comment. How does a contract like that “crush” the Twins? We’ve been told for our whole lives as Twins fans this is the case. Where is all the hardware to show for that conservative approach? All that I see is squandered opportunities and a world record for playoff incompetence. What “crushes” this franchise is that narrative that been pushed and accepted by a lot of fans here. Personally, I’d rather see actually them try and fail than pretend to try and market the hell out of it (which, don’t kid yourself, has been the case). It’s been lip service. Desperate attempts to get people in the seats while knowing full well there is no hope. The Astros have gone and built one of the best dynasties in the history of sports by being aggressive and getting Justin Verlander. So, I guess my question is, a bad deal crushes what? What exactly do we have to lose? We’ve sucked for decades with this approach, but as the definition of insanity states, we keep looking for the same path to different results. We should be begging for something in this stale, hapless organization to be crushed.

Just fold this franchise. My God. We should have like $60 million to spend and we’re clamoring for “cheap options” and Iglesias? What the point? Do fans think they get bonus points for takes like that? It sure as heck isn’t going to win baseball games. We’ve been playing this “get cheap options and wait for someone” game for like two decades now. It’s gotten us a bunch of crap teams and a world record for playoff incompetency. On top of it, our farm system stinks right now. What the hell is there to lose? Its like some weird baseball masochism that’s unique to Twins fans. They should start giving away gimp masks as promotions at the games.