Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account
  • Twins Minor League Coverage

    It's Time!


    Seth Stohs

    This was supposed to be my article for Monday night, but with the firing (er, dismissal of duties) of Terry Ryan on Monday, this topic could wait a little bit. But I think it is important. Now the article can be framed as a request for interim GM Rob Antony to consider.

    With the Twins already out of playoff contention (probably in early May), every decision made for the rest of this season needs to have its focus to 2017. Any trades made by Antony need 2017 and beyond in mind. But there are a couple of transactions that can be - and probably should be - made right now.

    Image courtesy of Tommy Gilligan, USA Today

    Twins Video

    The Twins need to find a way to promote three players from the minor leagues to the big leagues (and I’ll even argue for a fourth).

    Jose Berrios

    Ahora es el momento para La Makina! Jose Berrios needs to spend time in the big leagues this year, and his recent AAA success is proof of it. The time is now for Berrios to be called up.

    I’ve written several times that I thought it was time for Berrios to come up. I wrote it first about this time last year. I wrote it earlier this season, and now I’m writing it again. I don’t know if calling up Berrios would have helped the Twins in 2015 or not. There is no way to know. His control and command issues hurt him earlier this season, but he did get an opportunity with the Twins before his 22nd birthday in May.

    Those struggles were magnified in his four starts with the Twins. He went 1-1 but posted a 10.20 ERA and a 2.13 WHIP over 15 innings. While we saw glimpses of what he can - and likely will - be (the 12 K/9 looks great), we also saw that there was more for him to learn and that he needed to improve (7.2 BB/9 isn’t going to work).

    Berrios returned to Rochester and after a couple of rough starts, he has been tremendous of late.

    In his last six starts, he has thrown 41.2 innings. He has given up 23 hits walked 12 and struck out 43. That’s a 1.08 ERA, a 0.84 WHIP, 2.6 BB/9 and 9.3 K/9.

    Berrios is not a finished product and when he is called up he is going to still experience some lumps, but he’s got nothing left to prove at AAA. He has now made 27 starts and thrown 168 innings in AAA. He has had a lot of success there. There’s no reason he make any more starts there.

    JT Chargois

    There is also little reason for JT Chargois to continue pitching in Rochester at this point. Sure, he had a rough debut, and when the Twins claimed RHP Neil Ramirez off of waivers, it made some sense to send Chargois back down.

    Ramirez is a guy who was really good for the Cubs for a couple of years. Then he got hurt, and he’s out of options. So, is he the pitcher he has been the last year and a half, or is he the guy who was good? When a team has the right to claim players early, they should take chances on guys like Ramirez. However, it hasn’t gone terribly well, so at this point, Ramirez can be DFAd again to make room for Chargois.

    Again, calling up Chargois doesn’t mean we should think he’s 100% ready, but he’s got nothing more to prove in Rochester. His problem in the past was his control. In 2016, he is walking just 1.6 batters per nine innings over 27.2 innings in Rochester. He has a 1.30 ERA and a 0.90 WHIP. He’s striking out 11.4 per nine innings.

    Chargois, after missing two seasons after being drafted out of Rice University, is already 25. It’s possible that the organization still believes that Ramirez has more in the tank and want to keep him around, hoping he returns to that level. Understandable. If that’s the case, the Twins could call up Chargois when Fernando Abad or Brandon Kintzler are traded in 10 days or so.

    Jorge Polanco

    Polanco had several cups of coffee in 2014 and 2015. Those were 40-man roster decisions. At those times, he wasn’t ready for a full-time gig. He’s ready now.

    He spent a bit of time on the Twins roster earlier this season, and didn’t play, which makes little sense. However, since returning to Rochester, he has hit .279/.345/.471 (.816) in 52 games. He has 12 walks, three triples and seven home runs. He has a good approach at the plate.

    Now, I get that they can’t call up Polanco until a trade of either Eduardo Nunez, Eduardo Escobar or even Brian Dozier. Calling him up and sitting one of those players would hurt (possibly) the value of those players. (Note - The other option is DFAing Danny Santana, but again, that would cost playing time in the short term for three guys that they may want to trade. We can just be patient for 10 more days.)

    Could the Twins throw Jorge Polanco at shortstop and stick with any struggles defensively the rest of the season? Sure they could. However, consider this. Here is his playing time by position in 2016:

    Shortstop - 1 game, 8 innings

    Second Base - 59 games, 512 innings

    Third Base - 2 games, 16 innings

    The Twins made the decision after spring training that Jorge Polanco was not going to be able to play shortstop, a decision that is hard to disagree with based on his play at the position the last couple of years. In fact, the one game he played at shortstop this year came in the big leagues.

    The issue is that Polanco is is out of options in 2017. He will need to make the Twins roster or potentially lose him on waivers (they would certainly lose him). If they want him to be a utility player, then he needs to start playing every day at a variety of positions.

    It will be very interesting to me to see how they choose to play Polanco, but in my mind, he needs to be playing in the big leagues very soon, as soon as a roster spot is available following a trade.

    OTHERS

    The three players mentioned above should be up either now, or right after a trade is made (in Polanco’s and maybe Chargois’ case). Here are a few others that either should be up soon, maybe in September, or at least people have been talking about of late.

    Trevor Hildenberger - The right-hander is completely making a mockery of minor league baseball the last couple of seasons. He’s got 16 saves and a 0.79 ERA and a 0.70 WHIP and a 0.5 HR/9, and 1.3 BB/9 and 10.2 K/9 for Chattanooga in 34.1 innings. If the Twins trade two relievers, I have no problem calling him up August 1st to the Twins. He should move up to AAA when Chargois is called up to the big leagues regardless. Despite being drafted just over two years ago, he is 25 because he was a five-year college guy. The reason to not call him up is because of the 40-man roster. The Twins already have some tough decisions to make in November on the 40-man roster updates. Hildenberger doesn’t need to be added for another year. That’s why I’d say either call him up on August 1st, or wait to add him until early in the 2017 season. Invite him to big league camp with a legit shot at an Opening Day spot.

    Byung Ho Park - He has played in just 12 games since being demoted to Rochester. He missed a couple of games with his wrist concerns. He has hit .286/.388/.476 (.864) with two doubles and two home runs. He will come up again at some point, but in my opinion, I’d let him keep playing every day and gaining more and more confidence.

    John Ryan Murphy - If (or when) Kurt Suzuki is traded, most likely John Ryan Murphy, despite a .201/.264/.282 (.546) line in Rochester, will be called up. He just turned 25, so he should still be considered part of the future. He can also work with pitchers that he may work with over the final two months.

    Mitch Garver - Garver is also 25 years old, about four months older than Murphy. Garver has improved defensively, but his offense has been very good of late in Chattanooga too. Over his last 50 games, he has hit .289/.369/.489 (.858) with 14 doubles and eight home runs. Since July 1st, he is hitting .333/.425/.617 (1.041) with eight doubles and three homers in 16 games. He needs to be added to the 40-man roster by November anyway, so it makes sense to call him up either instead of Murphy or with the September call-ups.

    Jason Wheeler - The 25-year-old left-hander was added to the 40-man roster before the 2015 season. He had a tough year and was removed from the 40-man roster late in the season. He began this year in AA but was called up to Rochester when the Red Wings were down three starting pitchers to the big leagues. He has been very good. He is 6-2 with a 2.75 ERA in 15 starts (95 innings). If the Twins are able to trade a starting pitcher or two (Nolasco, Santana and Milone all possibilities), Wheeler could join the rotation for the final two months as a tryout. (Pat Dean could also get another opportunity, though he has struggled since his return to Rochester.)

    Alex Wimmers - The 27-year-old was the Twins top pick in the 2010 draft, which is significant. It’s been well documented that Wimmers has gone through a lot since the Twins signed him. He had a bout with the yips way back and overcame that. He has gone through Tommy John surgery and returned from that. He’s no longer a starter either. That he was drafted in 2010 is important because as soon as the World Series is complete, Wimmers can become a six-year minor league free agent. Sure, the Twins could re-sign him on a minor league deal after that point, but he has been pitching pretty well since his promotion to AAA Rochester’s bullpen early this season. He is 2-1 with eight saves in 28 games (37.1 innings). In his last 13 games (17 innings), he has a 1.59 ERA and opponents are hitting .197/.269/.246 (.515) against him. I would strongly consider calling him up for the final 6-8 weeks and just see how he does. Evaluate whether or not he is someone they want to keep on their 40-man roster or not. Sure, they can do that evaluation while he’s at AAA, but giving him that opportunity at the big league level is so much more valuable.

    Adam Brett Walker and Daniel Palka - Palka and Walker have both provided a lot of power. Walker is already on the 40-man roster. Palka needs to be added to the 40-man roster after the season, or potentially be lost. It’d be nice to see these guys in September, but it will be very interesting to see if they are. Palka plays right field and some first base and DH. Walker can play the corner outfield spots (not necessarily well) and DH. The Twins understandably will want to keep playing Max Kepler every day. Eddie Rosario needs at-bats, and Robbie Grossman has earned playing time too. At DH, Kennys Vargas is getting what might be his final opportunity, and Byung Ho Park will be up at some point. If Trevor Plouffe isn’t traded, he and Miguel Sano will likely get several DH at-bats, and Joe Mauer could as well. The two sluggers could come up as bench bats and get minimal playing time. The question will need to be whether there is enough benefit from those guys to take up roster spots in September.

    I’m guessing most of you will agree that Jose Berrios, JT Chargois and Jorge Polanco should be up now, or at least very soon. There may be some discussion in the details. But what about some of the others? Who else should be called up and why?


    Interested in learning more about the Minnesota Twins' top prospects? Check out our comprehensive top prospects list that includes up-to-date stats, articles and videos about every prospect, scouting reports, and more!

    View Twins Top Prospects

    Follow Twins Daily For Minnesota Twins News & Analysis

    Recent Twins Articles

    Recent Twins Videos


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

     

    Comparing Dozier to Bryant is like comparing apples to an Apple iPhone. Sure, they may have "apple" in their name, but it's not exactly the same thing. 

    It was about the age thing when drafted part having some sort of meaning...that's it.  If you feel like it didn't make sense, that's fine.  Doesn't matter.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515690
    Share on other sites

    It was about the age thing when drafted part having some sort of meaning...that's it.  If you feel like it didn't make sense, that's fine.  Doesn't matter.

    If you're saying age when drafted (or signed) has no meaning, and to just look at Dozier versus Bryant for proof, well, isn't it possible to have more than one thing have meaning, age AND talent for example?

     

    Talent is what we seek, age provides the context for assessing the talent.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515693
    Share on other sites

     

    If you're saying age when drafted (or signed) has no meaning, and to just look at Dozier versus Bryant for proof, well, isn't it possible to have more than one thing have meaning, age AND talent for example?

     

    Talent is what we seek, age provides the context for assessing the talent.

    Below is the quote I was responding to. I was apparently missing the point, so I guess my bad.

     

    'Heres the funny thing.. slightly better.. Polanco made it to the MLB at 21, Dozier wasn't even drafted until he was just over 22 years old.'

     

    Anyway, my post number on this one thing is extremely disproportionate to the amount I care about it.  :-)

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515695
    Share on other sites

    hes hitting .309 with 35 stolen bases in AA and over his last 38 games he is hitting .369. Nothing special, most likely true... but he could easily end up being a starting Center fielder if he hits like this and he's young, 23. scouts have compared him to Burns which isn't too bad considering Burns had a 2.3 WAR last year..

    Granite's AA numbers equate to a sub-700 OPS in the majors. He has limited power, so pitchers aren't afraid of him and he would draw few walks in MLB. Mediocre OBP, poor SLG . . . Fourth OF potential is there but 2.3 WAR, not likely.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515708
    Share on other sites

     

    I'm not sure you can compare their minor league numbers for many of the reasons mentioned here.  Context matters and they don't have much in common. That said, Dozier has shown the ability to be an elite hitter and above average defender at the major league level for long periods of time. While Polanco to be fair hasn't had the opportunity to do so, those types of players don't exactly grown on trees.

     

    I think at the end of the day, trading Dozier is the right answer, especially with only 2 years left under contract, but I don't pretend to think that Polanco can walk in and out produce him in 2017. He may never put a season like Dozier.

    Dozier has never had a season with an OPS better than .761 in MLB.. Thats easily doable for Polanco. I think Polanco is capable of an .800+ multiple years

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515713
    Share on other sites

     

    Well, yeah, Dozier didn't get drafted till he was 22.  He went to college, like Kris Bryant (also drafted at age 22).  You think Polanco is better than Bryant too, based on how old he was when he was drafted?

    no I dont, Bryant had an OPS over 1 at every level. I'm saying for their ages at their levels, Polanco is more impressive. Kris Bryant also made it to the MLB in 1.5 years.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515715
    Share on other sites

    I've thought about this for a bit now and here's how I'd go about things if I were the GM:

     

    -I'd have called up Berrios and Chargois yesterday. Dump Ramirez. And I might consider sending Trevor May down to Rochester (if he has options left) to get stretched out as a starter. Move Nolasco, Milone, or Duffey to the pen to make room for Berrios.

     

    -I'd work on trading Nunez ASAP. Then call up Polanco. Have him split time between 2nd, SS, and 3rd the rest of the season. 

     

    -Trade Suzuki, sounds like there is some interest in him right now. Call up Murphy. Add Garver to 40 man.

     

    -Trade Kintzler and Abad for whatever we can get. Call up Boshers, add Hildenberger to 40 man and call him up. 

     

    -Trade Ervin Santana for best available package, eating salary is a must. Move Milone, Nolasco, or Duffey back to the rotation. Call up Melotakis. 

     

    August: 

    -Dump Nolasco for whatever we can get. Eat salary if we must. May should be stretched out by now. Recall him and insert into the rotation.

     

    - Dump Milone for whatever we can get. Add Wheeler to 40 man- call him up, insert into ration.

     

    - Dump Plouffe for whatever we can get. Add Beresford to 40 man. Call him up to be UTIL player.

     

    End of August- If my math is right, there should be 33 players on the 40 man (38 today, removed 9 players, added 4. The rotation will be Duffey, Berrios, May, Gibson, Wheeler. C: Centeno/Murphy 1B: Mauer/Vargas/Sano 2B: Dozier/Polanco SS: Escobar/Polanco 3B: Sano/Polanco RF: Kepler/Grossman CF: Buxton/Santana LF: Rosario/Grossman DH:Vargas/Sano/Mauer/Grossman

     

    SEPT:

    -Call up Garver and Park on the 1st. 

     

    -Add Granite, Wimmers, and Baxendale to 40 man and call them up. 

     

    -Once MiLB season ends add Palka to 40 man, call him and Walker up. 

     

    40 man at 37 players

     

    Offseason: 

     

    -Trade Dozier. Appears that 2B at the deadline is a buyer's market. With his two years of control left, offseason might be a better time to trade him.

     

    -DFA Danny Santana. 

     

    -Remove Dean from 40 man

     

    -Centeno, Landa, R Rosario other candidates to be removed from 40 man. 

     

    40 man at 32-35.

     

    Tentative Roster for 2017 ST:

     

     C: Centeno/Murphy/Garver/FA?

    1B: Mauer/Vargas/Park

    2B: Polanco

    SS: Escobar

    3B: Sano

    RF: Kepler/Grossman

    CF: Buxton

    LF: Rosario/Grossman

    DH: Park/Vargas

     

    Bench:

    IF: Beresford

    OF: Grossman/Granite?

    Bat: Vargas/Park

    Catcher #2

     

    SP: Berrios

    SP: Gibson

    SP: May

    SP Duffey

    SP: Buy Low High Risk/Reward FA. (Wheeler in AAA, Hughes potential return in second half)

     

    Bullpen: (Very Fluid)

    CL/SU: Chargois

    CL/SU: Hildenberger

    CL/SU:Pressly

    MR: Boshers

    MR: Tonkin

    MR: Melotakis

    LOOGY: Rogers

     

    In AAA:

     

    Hitters: Murphy/Garver/Stuart, Vielma, Granite, Palka, Walker

     

    Pitchers: Wheeler, Jay, Gonsalves, Slegers, Wimmers, Baxendale, Reed, Jones, Bard

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515721
    Share on other sites

    Honestly, with further reflection on all matters, I think what the Twins should be doing is trading/cutting the obvious and then staying pat. The obvious moves are to be rid of Nolasco, Milone, Kinzler, Ramirez, Plouffe, D Santana and Suzuki. Get what you can, probably A ball players with some potential, eat salary that is already spent anyway, and just clear space.

     

    These moves allow the team to instantly promote Berrios, Wheeler, Chargois, Wimmers (Boshers and Hildenberger are possibles), Polanco and Murphy as direct replacements. Promote as necessary to AAA, but especially include Garver, Granite and Hildenberger, plus probably Melotakis. (I've stated this before)

     

    I can see arguements for and against trading Abad vs re-signing him, but I'm on the fence there but OK either way. What I would not do, unless offered something pretty darn nice that I'd be silly to refuse, is trade E Santana, Dozier or Nunez.

     

    Why?

     

    Santana provides a solid, decent, still relatively cost controlled veteran SP for 2017 to help fill and stabilize my staff which probably includes Gibson, Duffey, Berrios and either Wheeler or May. (Meyer and Hughes on the outside looking in for now) Despite some arguements to the contrary, there is no reason to expect Santana to suddenly decline dramaticly. He may have even greater trade value this time next season with only a year and a half remaining on his deal. Further, he could still be traded during the offseason once teams begin to set their rosters.

     

    Dozier is good. Dozier is not old. We're still not 100% sure what we have in Polanco. (Twins own fault there) We are hedging our bets by keeping Dozier for now as Polanco auditions and gets experience. Perhaps he grows in to a full time slot gradually? I also feel the same about Dozier in trade value this time next year, or the offseason.

     

    And I'd keep Nunez. And not just because he's having this great season. What if Sano gets hurt? While I fully believe in Sano playing 3B, and only getting better, what if you move him suddenly to 1B/DH? What if Polanco struggles, especially if you've traded Dozier already? What's wrong with Escobar, Dozief, Nunez and Polanco all opening 2017 as your starting middle infield and utility reserves?

     

    And by not trading Santana or Dozier...at least now...you can audition Murphy, Polanco, Wheeler and a host of RP the remainder of the season, as well as how your other prospects finish AAA and AA, fairly assess their time table after a complete season and possible September audition, and then re-assess your top needs in the offseason and still look to move Santana and/or Dozier at that time.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515754
    Share on other sites

    Yes, let's trade Dozier for a decent return...

    But someone needs to tell me what teams in the playoff hunt would give up something that would make you happy.  Royals? Doesn't strike me as likely. They need rotation help before anything else so unless they go big there they likely won't give up much to improve second. 

    Bluejays? They're adequately staffed there at the moment, and possibly the future with Travis.

    Sorry, but barring multiple injuries or other major issues on competitive teams, we likely won't have many suitors.

    P.S. I would love to be wrong.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515772
    Share on other sites

    If Berrios isn't up yet (and as of 1:07 CDT 7/20/16, that is the case), then I leave him down there until August 1st. It's a lost season and Jose could be making major league starts. I get that, but two more starts in AAA isn't going to change anything about his future. 

     

    Waiting until Aug 1 allows Nolasco and Milone to get two more starts. We all want them gone, but none of us think we can get anything for them. I mostly agree, but if they pitch decent over those couple starts (like they did the last two games), then you might get a desperate team either willing to take on salary (mostly a Nolasco issue) and/or part with a lottery ticket prospect.

     

    Benching them takes that possibility away.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515773
    Share on other sites

     

    If Berrios isn't up yet (and as of 1:07 CDT 7/20/16, that is the case), then I leave him down there until August 1st. It's a lost season and Jose could be making major league starts. I get that, but two more starts in AAA isn't going to change anything about his future. 

     

    Waiting until Aug 1 allows Nolasco and Milone to get two more starts. We all want them gone, but none of us think we can get anything for them. I mostly agree, but if they pitch decent over those couple starts (like they did the last two games), then you might get a desperate team either willing to take on salary (mostly a Nolasco issue) and/or part with a lottery ticket prospect.

     

    Benching them takes that possibility away.

     

    Then, we can keep him down for another month while they try to do a waiver deal......there is always a reason he's not up here, none of them seem to be about the present or his future.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515778
    Share on other sites

     

    If Berrios isn't up yet (and as of 1:07 CDT 7/20/16, that is the case), then I leave him down there until August 1st. It's a lost season and Jose could be making major league starts. I get that, but two more starts in AAA isn't going to change anything about his future. 

     

    Waiting until Aug 1 allows Nolasco and Milone to get two more starts. We all want them gone, but none of us think we can get anything for them. I mostly agree, but if they pitch decent over those couple starts (like they did the last two games), then you might get a desperate team either willing to take on salary (mostly a Nolasco issue) and/or part with a lottery ticket prospect.

     

    Benching them takes that possibility away.

     

     

    Then, we can keep him down for another month while they try to do a waiver deal......there is always a reason he's not up here, none of them seem to be about the present or his future.

     

    I never would have sent Berrios down in the first place, but at this point, I'd wait out the 10 more days hoping upon hope that a few teams get desperate.

     

    This is about what I would do. I'd wait 10 more days. 

     

    If the Twins are of the mind to try to get value from Nolasco and Milone, would they keep Berrios down longer? I can't answer that.

    Edited by amjgt
    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515781
    Share on other sites

     

    I never would have sent Berrios down in the first place, but at this point, I'd wait out the 10 more days hoping upon hope that a few teams get desperate.

     

    This is about what I would do. I'd wait 10 more days. 

     

    If the Twins are of the mind to try to get value from Nolasco and Milone, would they keep Berrios down longer? I can't answer that.

     

    Fair.

     

    i too would not have sent him down......

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515783
    Share on other sites

    Next year's bench possibilities right now look like: Escobar, Santana, Grossman, Polanco, and then one of Vargas/Park, plus the catcher. 

     

    Santana looks like the easy DFA candidate, and I'd be on board with trading one of Dozier/Nunez, preferably before the deadline in oreder to get Polanco some playing time. So basically what I'm saying is some moves need to be made.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515808
    Share on other sites

     

    Dozier has never had a season with an OPS better than .761 in MLB.. Thats easily doable for Polanco. I think Polanco is capable of an .800+ multiple years

     

    True, but he has gone long stretches with OPS over .800 (and to date has one I might add).  Granted the slumps count to, though some of that is explainable.  I think Polanco can be a good player.  I don't think it's a given he will be better than Dozier. I do think he can be an above average 2B, which is why I trade BD every day.  2 more years, even if BD puts up a .900 OPS while playing GG defense, and then he's an FA taking the highest dollar and entering his decline... right when the team is entering its prime.  Makes little sense to keep him. 

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515814
    Share on other sites

     

    Tentative Roster for 2017 ST:

     

    C: Centeno/Murphy/Garver/FA?

    1B: Mauer/Vargas/Park

    2B: Polanco

    SS: Escobar

    3B: Sano

    RF: Kepler/Grossman

    CF: Buxton

    LF: Rosario/Grossman

    DH: Park/Vargas

     

    Bench:

    IF: Beresford

    OF: Grossman/Granite?

    Bat: Vargas/Park

    Catcher #2

     

    SP: Berrios

    SP: Gibson

    SP: May

    SP Duffey

    SP: Buy Low High Risk/Reward FA. (Wheeler in AAA, Hughes potential return in second half)

     

    Bullpen: (Very Fluid)

    CL/SU: Chargois

    CL/SU: Hildenberger

    CL/SU:Pressly

    MR: Boshers

    MR: Tonkin

    MR: Melotakis

    LOOGY: Rogers

     

    Going into 2017 with this team you are giving up on another year. It is loaded with guys that strikeout out and don't really get on base. It is kind setup up like this years lineup. (I can't even come up with a major league lineup with that group)You are basically gambling on all 9 positions and expecting at minimum league average from guys that have never really done that. On top of that the bench is terrible.

    Same with the bullpen, nobody in that Pen has really ever had any real major league success.

     

    I like all are young prospects but I don't think you can run out a full team of them at the major league level and win.

     

    Looks like 2017 will be more of the same as 2016.

     

    I am not trying to insult you, I guess I am saying sucks for us Twins fans!

     

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515936
    Share on other sites

    The time was weeks ago.  

     

    Berrios and Chargois are no brainers.  So is Hildenberger to tell you the truth because he is already 25 years old.

     

    Polanco is a no-brainer but you need to have a plan on how to play him.  I would use him as a utility guy that plays almost every day.  His future is 2B, but give him time at SS and 3B too.  That experience might pay dividends down the road.

     

    Mitch Garver needs to be brought up right now.  Make whatever roster moves need to be done and install him as the starting catcher.  Like Hildenberger, he is already 25 years old.  Bringing him up aint rushing anything.  

     

    At the same time, I would bring up Stuart Turner.  He might not be able to hit much but his defense should be more than adequate as the backup catcher.  I would play Garver 2/3 of the time as the catcher and give him games as the DH if he is hitting and play Turner the remainder of the games.

     

    Let these guys play and get experience at the big league level.  We might not win a game the rest of the year, but what is the big deal.  Why continue to lose playing replacement level journeymen and delay the rebuilding process.

     

    Then, next season, a total committment needs to be made to youth like the Twins did in 1982.  We might lose another 100 games but if we can get these guys the expereince in the ML lineup they might develop like the 87 Twins squad.  Takes time, but the time is now.

     

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515946
    Share on other sites

     

    Can anyone explain to me, please, why Neil Ramirez is in the Twins roster today, over any of the relievers mentioned (or not mentioned) above?

     

    And please could the explanation reflect some opinion about the person who put him and the person who kept him on that roster?

     

    Thank you.

    Simple.  Because it is very likely a couple players will be traded in the next ten days and that will open spots for them.  I don't think much of Ramirez but he might be needed for awhile if Kinzler or Abad or both are traded.  Chargois moves up to the ML club and Hildenberger goes to AAA.  If Abad and Kinzler get traded, Chargois and one of the others mentioned get moved up.  It just does not make sense to debut guys right now when the landscape will be considerably more clear in 10 days.

     

    Plus ... Ramirez was just sent to AAA and replaced by Boshers.

     

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/minnesota-twins

     

    Edited by Major Leauge Ready
    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-515973
    Share on other sites

    If Berrios isn't up yet (and as of 1:07 CDT 7/20/16, that is the case), then I leave him down there until August 1st. It's a lost season and Jose could be making major league starts. I get that, but two more starts in AAA isn't going to change anything about his future.

     

    Waiting until Aug 1 allows Nolasco and Milone to get two more starts. We all want them gone, but none of us think we can get anything for them. I mostly agree, but if they pitch decent over those couple starts (like they did the last two games), then you might get a desperate team either willing to take on salary (mostly a Nolasco issue) and/or part with a lottery ticket prospect.

     

    Benching them takes that possibility away.

    Nolasco and Milone have pretty long and established track records. There is no way that 2 more starts, no matter good good or how bad they are, is going to change their value either way.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-516002
    Share on other sites

    Nolasco and Milone have pretty long and established track records. There is no way that 2 more starts, no matter good good or how bad they are, is going to change their value either way.

    Yes. You are spot on. Nobody is going to see 60 starts out if Nolasco at a 5.50 ERA and want him after two shut outs.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-516009
    Share on other sites

    Yes. You are spot on. Nobody is going to see 60 starts out if Nolasco at a 5.50 ERA and want him after two shut outs.

    If a trade is in the works then the additional starts would be to demonstrate there's no damaged goods, not to increase the trade value. If there's no trade imminent, then investing further starts doesn't accomplish much IMO.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-516015
    Share on other sites

     

    It was about the age thing when drafted part having some sort of meaning...that's it.  If you feel like it didn't make sense, that's fine.  Doesn't matter.

     

    Age doesn't necessarily matter when drafting (although a 17 year old high schooler may turn a few more heads than one who is about to turn 19), but it is a huge factor when evaluating prospects. If a guy is two years younger than the competition, his stats carry more weight than if he was two years older than the competition. That's why a guy like Daniel Palka is a fringy prospect. Yes, he's crushing the ball, but he spent most of the year at Double-A, where the average age is slightly over 24 (Palka, as of his move up to Triple-A, was 24 years, 8 months, and 7 days old--so, a few months above average). A guy like Max Kelper, on the other hand, dominated the Southern League as a 22 year old. Kepler was obviously the more highly regarded of the two before either wore a Lookouts jersey, but he was also kind of fringy when he began at that level. The fact that he owned players generally older than him caused him to stand out among his peers.

     

    In other words, no one said Polanco is better than Bryant because the latter went to college. It would be crazy to think that. The OP's point was that Polanco's minor league track record is more impressive than Dozier's. Which it is. While Dozier was still at Southern Mississippi, Polanco was making top-100 lists.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-516019
    Share on other sites

     

    . The OP's point was that Polanco's minor league track record is more impressive than Dozier's. Which it is. While Dozier was still at Southern Mississippi, Polanco was making top-100 lists.

    Well, that's not true.  Dozier was drafted at 22 and the two top 100 lists Polanco made were both pre-2016 (BA and MLB) when he was 22. Unless there are others you're talking about other than BP, BA and MLB dot com.

     

    In any event, if you follow the conversation, this has been discussed at length and like I said earlier, the amount of posts I've written on this is was out of proportion to the amount I care about it.  If people want to keep hashing it out, they can do it without me participating.

    Edited by jimmer
    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-516034
    Share on other sites

     

    Well, that's not true.  Dozier was drafted at 22 and the two top 100 lists Polanco made were both pre-2016 (BA and MLB) when he was 22. Unless there are others you're talking about other than BP, BA and MLB dot com.

     

    In any event, if you follow the conversation, this has been discussed at length and like I said earlier, the amount of posts I've written on this is was out of proportion to the amount I care about it.  If people want to keep hashing it out, they can do it without me participating.

     

    Right. Dozier turned 22 about a month before he was drafted. Polanco, 22 at the start of the 2016 season, made both the BA and MLB.com top-100 lists. Yes, Polanco being 22.9 vs. Dozier being 22.1 is different, if a person wants to be pedantic. I guess I'm not sure what point you're making. Do you think Dozier was a better prospect? As far as me following the conversation, you made an argument that gave me a strong reaction, so I wanted to post something. I don't care if you respond or not.

     

    As far as the Twins roster is concerned going forward, I fall into the camp that we should try and trade Dozier. Whether that's at the deadline or in the off season might not matter so much, unless a team on the cusp thinks he can help with a pennant run and is willing to pay a premium for that chance. His homerun power would definitely be missed, but there are other guys in the lineup who could make up for it. I also like Polanco's ability to get on base better than Dozier's. Considering that Dozier is likely to decline in the very near future, I'd rather take a chance on the rookie.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-516044
    Share on other sites

    Great article, Seth. "It's Time!" is a fitting title for both the minor league prospects and also for the young players settling in with the Twins. Amidst all the woulda/coulda/shoulda of the past and speculation about the future, there are some good things happening right now.

     

    The Twins hit rock bottom on June 25th at 23-51. Since then, they've managed a reasonable 12-8 record. They're winning with better pitching as well as hot hitting by Suzuki and Dozier. But the best thing happening is the performance of the youngsters. Since returning to the bigs:

     

    Vargas    .344/.462/.813  (recalled July 4th)

    Kepler     .232/.306/.483  (recalled June 1st)

    Rosario   .357/.364/.571  (recalled July 3rd)

    Sano       .268/.359/.482  (returned from DL July 1st)

     

    Small sample size, but it looks like it's time for them to get established.  I've really enjoyed watching them develop since their return. I'm ready for Berrios and Chargois to join them in the very near future.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-516053
    Share on other sites

    Yes. You are spot on. Nobody is going to see 60 starts out if Nolasco at a 5.50 ERA and want him after two shut outs.

    I respectfully disagree. Milone for sure and Nolasco to a lesser extend would be viewed, by teams that are desperate, as stopgaps. Short term success might not portend long-term success, but the short term success could continue. Analytics might not recognize that players can "get on a roll" but you'd be niave to think that it's not a real thing

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-516056
    Share on other sites

    I respectfully disagree. Milone for sure and Nolasco to a lesser extend would be viewed, by teams that are desperate, as stopgaps. Short term success might not portend long-term success, but the short term success could continue. Analytics might not recognize that players can "get on a roll" but you'd be niave to think that it's not a real thing

    Nobody thinks that short term, where they are going to give up something of value (money or prospects) for Nolasco or Milone at this point based on 2 starts.

    Link to comment
    https://twinsdaily.com/forums/topic/23263-article-its-time/#findComment-516060
    Share on other sites




    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...