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    Twelve's A Crowd: Twins Are Rolling In Relief


    Nick Nelson
    Image courtesy of Kevin Sousa, USA Today (Addison Reed)

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    Minnesota's signing of righty reliever Addison Reed to a two-year, $16.25 million contract, which became official on Monday, was stunning for multiple reasons.

    Yes, it was the first multi-year contract ever given to a free agent reliever by the Twins. But more strikingly, it adds another guaranteed contract to a bullpen that was already somewhat crowded. In fact, Reed may have removed the last vacancy in the unit, and that would leave some surprising names on the outside looking in.

    As things stand, I think we can safely say that the following pitchers are locks for the Twins bullpen, barring injury: Reed, Fernando Rodney, Zach Duke, Trevor Hildenberger, Taylor Rogers and Ryan Pressly. You might quibble on Pressly but they just signed him for $1.6 million and he's out of options. Despite his disappointing 2017, I don't think they're going to give up on that stuff without at least taking one more long look.

    So if we're square on those assumptions, then there's one spot remaining in a seven-man bullpen. I might be going out on a limb here, but I suspect that spot is also essentially spoken for and filled. Er, Philled.

    One thing that is conspicuously amiss in the group of six above is a long reliever who can bridge the gap over several innings after short starts. The highest pitch total in a 2017 outing for anyone in the group was Hildenberger's 40, in his second career appearance, and I suspect the Twins would prefer not to let him approach that number going forward.

    We haven't heard much on Phil Hughes lately but the most recent reports suggested his recovery was going smoothly and he was amped up to return in 2018.

    He'll be six months removed from his thoracic outlet revision surgery when he reports to camp. His $13.2 million salary and – more importantly – his (albeit now distant) history of pitching well in the majors make him a sure bet to land on the pitching staff, so long as he's healthy and throwing reasonably well.

    As I wrote back in early December, bringing Hughes back as a reliever is almost the only option that makes sense. This only feels more true now, given how the rest of the pen is shaping up.

    So, if that seven-man relief corps is penciled in, it leaves all of these guys out of luck:

    Tyler Duffey, Alan Busenitz, JT Chargois, Gabriel Moya, Tyler Kinley.

    Duffey has spent almost the entire past two seasons in the majors, and posted a 3.72 FIP for the Twins in relief last year. Busenitz posted a 1.99 ERA and 0.98 WHIP in 28 appearances as a rookie. Chargois lost his entire season to injury but is one of the organization's top relief prospects, and he's MLB-ready. Moya has been silly good in the minors, and had the highest K-rate of any Minnesota reliever during his brief 2017 debut. Kinley was the Rule 5 pick that the Twins basically sacrificed Nick Burdi and Luke Bard to acquire, though you could argue one or both might have been lost over the course of the offseason anyway.

    I didn't mention John Curtiss, because I don't think he'll be a viable contender for the Twins bullpen out of camp, but he's on the 40-man roster and has gotten a taste of the majors. Buddy Boshers was designated for assignment to make room for Reed, but if he makes it through waivers he'll still be around. He's spent plenty of time in the majors and has, in my mind, the right profile to get back there.

    The collection of guys slated to miss out on Opening Day roster spots could basically form an MLB-caliber bullpen in Rochester. I might be exaggerating a little, but not a ton, especially if Chargois is healthy and on his game.

    We still haven't yet accounted for Dietrich Enns (lefty starter acquired in Jaime Garcia deal, almost assuredly destined for a relief role), Tyler Jay (potentially back on the fast track after a healthy showing in the AFL), or the inevitability that at least a couple from the Gonsalves/Romero/Littell/Jorge pack will drop out as starters.

    It's a degree of MLB-ready (or very close) depth the franchise hasn't enjoyed in quite some time. And it happens to coincide with bullpens becoming an increased area of focus all around the game.

    Minnesota certainly isn't rich with proven top-tier relievers – a shortcoming they did address nicely with the Reed signing – but on aggregate, their talent at the position might rival any organization in the league. With just a few more guys turning the corner, the Twins could have themselves a self-styled power pen.

    Granted, that's a sizable "if" but at least the team is giving itself a whole lot of reasonable "maybes."

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    On Thursday in the Fall League, Mercedes went 2-for-4 with his first double and his first homer run of the AFL season.

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    Who is everyone here predicting will be the closer? 7th and 8th inn guys? Or do you think it will be a mixed bag depending on each game's unique circumstances?

     

    I think Rodney starts as the closer but has a short leash. Reed the next guy in place. I think Busenitz/Rogers are the 7th inn guys. I love the depth we have! 

     

    Well, this FO showed last year how they will manipulate the 40-man roster to keep BP arms fresh.  They may break camp with 7 relievers, but we all know we'll see a large number of these guys at some point.  Who comes north may come down to how many options different pitchers have.  The two guys I'm curious about are Hughes and May.  Are they starters?  Relievers?  Where will they be?  This FO has no ties to Hughes...would they dare just release him and eat the $$?

    I doubt they eat Hughes' salary but agree with the overall sentiment.

     

    Depth is good and Kinley is only depth, but if he wins a spot, great stash him. If he doesn't, oh well. There's good pitchers with options who will be up to pitch in the Bigs for significant portions of the season. there will be injuries - there will be performance issues (here's looking at you Rodney, to have one of those two at some point) there's more than enough willingness to utilize the 10 day DL along wit the Rochester Shuttle to get all of these guys good innings.

     

    If the FO acquires a starter, there's still two guys in the bullpen who are likely to blow up regularly. If the FO doesn't acquire another starter, there's 3 questionable starters; short starts would be an issue

    Edited by Sconnie
    Is great having depth in the bullpen.  The bigger question, however, is whether Rochester's bullpen will be better than the Twins?

     

    Interesting comment. I don’t think Rochester’s bullpen will be “better” than the Twins’, but it should have some good talent.

     

    Enns

    Jay

    Duffey or Busenitz

    Chargois

    Moya

    Curtiss

    Reed, Jake

    Kohn (if he returns)

    Melotakis

    Anderson, NIck

    Eades

     

    Vasquez and Hackimer could also be there later in the summer.

     

     

    Interesting comment. I don’t think Rochester’s bullpen will be “better” than the Twins’, but it should have some good talent. Enns Jay Duffey or Busenitz Chargois Moya Curtiss Reed, Jake Kohn (if he returns) Melotakis Anderson, NIck Eades Vasquez and Hackimer could also be there later in the summer.

     

    Agreed.  I've been high on our AA & AAA bullpen for a few years now.  These guys are close, and we've put some solid pitchers in their future spots.  It's a matter of them seizing opportunities and making the FO's job difficult.

     

    Something tells me that Hughes needs to make a FULL recovery, including getting his velo back to 91. He needs to be viewed as a better rotation option than Mejia, Gibson, or Gonsalves.

     

    I think May is more likely to come back and claim a spot in the pen.

     

    Otherwise, I think Falvey releases him. Why plug up a spot in the pen with a guy who can't give you more than what Duffey gives you? I just don't think they'll stick him in the pen, and I don't think they'll lose sleep over the sunk cost. . If he's not good enough for the rotation, he's not good enough for the pen, not when you have so many options that could blossom for you.

     

    That might be a pretty impressive pen down in AAA, especially if they get Burdi or Bard or both back. Jake Reed is still a prospect too..

     

    Agreed. It probably helps that it wasn't Falvine who signed Hughes to an extension in the first place. They won't feel obligated to get any value out of him if he's not fully recovered. 

     

    It would be quite the surprise if he came back throwing 91 or better! I'm not expecting it, but hey, why not hope?

     

     

     

    Who is everyone here predicting will be the closer? 7th and 8th inn guys? Or do you think it will be a mixed bag depending on each game's unique circumstances?

     

    I think Rodney starts as the closer but has a short leash. Reed the next guy in place. I think Busenitz/Rogers are the 7th inn guys. I love the depth we have! 

     

    That sounds right. Rodney starts the year as the closer, and Reed is the fireman coming in at any high leverage situation. Hildenberger/Rogers are the other 7th/8th inning guys, and the rest will fill in at other times. 

    I wouldn't assume Hughes will be in the pen. I wouldn't assume he will be on the team either. Two TOS in two years. I have to think he's done... or at least, I have to think that the assumption is that he's done until he proves otherwise.

    I imagine that Hughes will start the season on the 60-day DL and go through a rehab process, unless he proves that he’s healthy and strong. If he looks just OK and it isn’t clear that he’ll retain his health, it would be better to have his roster spot and hope he can become healthy enough to be helpful later in the year.

    I think there's more than a small possibility that Hughes starts the season on the DL, and then needs rehab time in the minors to get himself into pitching shape. I love Chargois, but he's got to prove that he's healthy and I'm not betting on him at the start of the season either.

     

    I'm not even a little worried about Kinley; we're at a point where a Rule V guy has to show they can contribute or we won't hold a roster spot for them and if he goes I'm not shedding any tears. the heat loss in missing on a Rule V pick is pretty low.

     

    Rodney's contract is one where if he's not pitching well we can dump him and roll with a different guy from Rochester and I think that's healthy. And as much as i hate it, there's a better than even chance we come north with an 8-man 'pen.

     

    Rodney

    Reed

    Duke

    Hildenburger

    Rogers

    Pressly (who has earned the skepticism)

    Duffey

    Busenitz

     

    That looks like the first cut. May is going to be tossed in the starter pool (good!). Enns, Kinley, Curtiss, and Moya are fighting for spots. Moya has options, and has never pitched at AAA; he starts there unless Duke or Rogers falters/gets hurt and we need another lefty. Duffey could get dealt (he's exactly the sort of pitcher who gets thrown into a deal so that a team isn't getting all prospects for a legit MLB player/star) but otherwise he's potentially the swingman in the bullpen and needs to fight off Enns or Kinley. Curtiss is going to push Pressly.

     

    Those are my guesses right now. Regardless, there's a lot more depth than there was and Reed sure looks like the impact bullpen arm people were complaining the twins weren't gonna sign.

    I wouldn't say that anyone with options is a "lock" for the 2018 Twins pen.  There are 4 pitchers out of options (Rodney, Reed, Duke, Pressly).  If they like to keep Kinsley that makes it 5 and if both Hughes and May ended up in the pen, that's it for Rogers and Hildy, as far as starting the season in the majors...  Not to mention Pineda slated to return after the AS Break, and likely will pitch out of the pen this season.

    I assume that they will get at least one starter.

     

    Log jam.  They need to start trading people.

     

    That sounds right. Rodney starts the year as the closer, and Reed is the fireman coming in at any high leverage situation. Hildenberger/Rogers are the other 7th/8th inning guys, and the rest will fill in at other times. 

    Yep, I think that's the right layout to expect. And it creates a very favorable situation for Pressly to bounce back, because he'll be able to work in more low-leverage situations early on and build confidence.

     

    Interesting comment. I don’t think Rochester’s bullpen will be “better” than the Twins’, but it should have some good talent. Enns Jay Duffey or Busenitz Chargois Moya Curtiss Reed, Jake Kohn (if he returns) Melotakis Anderson, NIck Eades Vasquez and Hackimer could also be there later in the summer.

    I should have clarified my comment.  I meant that Rochester's bullpen may have more upside, guys with higher ceilings, than the big league bullpen. 

     

    I wouldn't say that anyone with options is a "lock" for the 2018 Twins pen.  There are 4 pitchers out of options (Rodney, Reed, Duke, Pressly).  If they like to keep Kinsley that makes it 5 and if both Hughes and May ended up in the pen, that's it for Rogers and Hildy, as far as starting the season in the majors...  Not to mention Pineda slated to return after the AS Break, and likely will pitch out of the pen this season.

    I assume that they will get at least one starter.

     

    Log jam.  They need to start trading people.

    If May begins the season healthy, I would hope he's 5th starter and Mejia starting in Rochester

     

    2 TOS surgeries for Hughes, I doubt he starts the season active, most likely 60 day DL.

     

    there's no log jam

    I'd rather see Buesnitz than Kinley, for two reasons:

     

    1. He was good in the majors, Kinley was barely good in the minors

    2. Buesnitz has options....Kinley does not, effectively.

    Edited by Mike Sixel

     

    I'd rather see Buesnitz than Kinley, for two reasons:

     

    1. He was good in the majors, Kinley was barely good in the minors

    2. Buesnitz has options....Kinley does not, effectively.

     

    The FO effectively thought that Kinley was better than both Burdi and Bard (who btw could be in the conversation if returned),  I'd give them the benefit of doubt.  

     

    Busenitz's .212 BABIP and 86.6% LOB, along with the 4.20 FIP and 4.98 DRA are screaming regression at this point. 

     

    Another issue with Busenitz is that he has been a pitch to contact type with only 7.2% swstr.  His contact percentage 85.4% is at Nic_ Blac_burn territory (career 88.4% ave)

    Edited by Thrylos

    The FO effectively thought that Kinley was better than both Burdi and Bard (who btw could be in the conversation if returned), I'd give them the benefit of doubt.

     

    Busenitz's .212 BABIP and 86.6% LOB, along with the 4.20 FIP and 4.98 DRA are screaming regression at this point.

     

    Another issue with Busenitz is that he has been a pitch to contact type with only 7.2% swstr. His contact percentage 85.4% is at Nic_ Blac_burn territory (career 88.4% ave)

    As opposed to a guy with no options, virtually, and wasn't good in the minors, who is 27....

     

    The FO effectively thought that Kinley was better than both Burdi and Bard (who btw could be in the conversation if returned),  I'd give them the benefit of doubt.  

     

    Busenitz's .212 BABIP and 86.6% LOB, along with the 4.20 FIP and 4.98 DRA are screaming regression at this point. 

     

    Another issue with Busenitz is that he has been a pitch to contact type with only 7.2% swstr.  His contact percentage 85.4% is at Nic_ Blac_burn territory (career 88.4% ave)

     

     

    There is no connection between what the FO thinks of Burdi or Bard and what they think of Kinley. They did not swap these guys! Disagree with the decision not to protect them by handing them roster spots, but let's please stop conflating the three decisions. That's not how it went down.

     

    The FO effectively thought that Kinley was better than both Burdi and Bard (who btw could be in the conversation if returned),  I'd give them the benefit of doubt.  

     

    Busenitz's .212 BABIP and 86.6% LOB, along with the 4.20 FIP and 4.98 DRA are screaming regression at this point. 

     

    Another issue with Busenitz is that he has been a pitch to contact type with only 7.2% swstr.  His contact percentage 85.4% is at Nic_ Blac_burn territory (career 88.4% ave)

    This is a pretty deep statistical dive into 31IP. Busenitz is a complete question mark and we have no idea how he will perform. He does throw 95+ and he did have reasonable K rates in the minors as a RP.

     

    One thing I cannot understand is the amount of angst (not necessarily by Thrylos) regarding a Rule V pick. The Twins are taking a shot on a guy with a 95+ FB with 11+ K/9 rates (and awful BB rates). Most likely it doesn't work out but these are the kind of risks (minimal to zero risk) that you should take. I will reserve my angst for the time that he is kept on the MLB roster for too long after it is incredibly obvious that he isn't a MLB caliber pitcher. It is January now so it doesn't matter.

     

    There is no connection between what the FO thinks of Burdi or Bard and what they think of Kinley. They did not swap these guys! Disagree with the decision not to protect them by handing them roster spots, but let's please stop conflating the three decisions. That's not how it went down.

    How is it not? They elected not to add either of those two to the 40-man roster so that they could keep an open spot to draft Kinley, then Burdi and Bard (unsurprisingly, especially in Burdi's case) got taken. 

    I've always been a big believer in Burdi's arm and think he'll be a stud reliever in the majors pretty quickly if he gets his health straightened out, so maybe I'm irrational on this topic. Perhaps the Twins have real reason to believe he'll never get fully healthy, I dunno. 

     

    How is it not? They elected not to add either of those two to the 40-man roster so that they could keep an open spot to draft Kinley, then Burdi and Bard (unsurprisingly, especially in Burdi's case) got taken. 

    But they didn't know that Burdi would get taken and we still don't know if he will be returned. If he makes it through Rule V then the Twins have a big advantage in offseason 40 man roster flexibility for this offseason (and possibly next offseason). 

     

    The Twins also didn't know who would be available at pick #20 in Rule V. I do prefer Burdi to Kinley though but after signing 3 FA RP's this offseason I don't think Kinley's leash is too long and he might not even make it through the offseason if the Twins need to open up a couple more 40 man spots.

    I've always been a big believer in Burdi's arm and think he'll be a stud reliever in the majors pretty quickly if he gets his health straightened out, so maybe I'm irrational on this topic. Perhaps the Twins have real reason to believe he'll never get fully healthy, I dunno.

    I guess it boils down to if a person thinks durability is an attribute, or just random luck.

    I feel it's an attribute, no different than a 95 mph fastball. Not everyone is capable of staying healthy, and I think Burdi is one of those guys.

    No loss, IMO.

    I feel that someone like Duffy should be the long guy. I hope they put Hughes in Rochester to get some rehab starts in before they decide what to do with him. He's getting paid 13 million I can't really see him arguing about it too much given how he has pitched recently, and given that he is recovering from injury.

    I feel that someone like Duffy should be the long guy. I hope they put Hughes in Rochester to get some rehab starts in before they decide what to do with him. He's getting paid 13 million I can't really see him arguing about it too much given how he has pitched recently, and given that he is recovering from injury.

    I'm not sure they'd have him pitch in Rochester in April if he's rehabbing.

    Ft. Myers or Chattanooga would be more likely.

     

    How is it not? They elected not to add either of those two to the 40-man roster so that they could keep an open spot to draft Kinley, then Burdi and Bard (unsurprisingly, especially in Burdi's case) got taken. 

     

    That makes it sound like they had a specific premeditated plan to draft Kinley. They didn't.

     

    I can't explain their thinking on Burdi and disagree with the decision on the surface. We'll see if anything illuminating surfaces that helps explain it, but it's confounding, I agree.

     

    They clearly wanted to keep some open slots. There's no admission by Falvey that they had Kinley in mind going in, or anyone else for that matter. I can't explain THAT call either.

     

    They probably still think Bard makes it back to the Twins.

     

    But I'm 100% sure that Derek didn't turn to Thad and say" "Hey, I have a good idea. Let's swap out Burdi and Bard for Kinley, since he's obviously better." 

    Edited by birdwatcher

     

    The FO effectively thought that Kinley was better than both Burdi and Bard (who btw could be in the conversation if returned),  I'd give them the benefit of doubt.  

     

    Busenitz's .212 BABIP and 86.6% LOB, along with the 4.20 FIP and 4.98 DRA are screaming regression at this point. 

     

    Another issue with Busenitz is that he has been a pitch to contact type with only 7.2% swstr.  His contact percentage 85.4% is at Nic_ Blac_burn territory (career 88.4% ave)

    If Busenitz keeps those numbers up, his ERA is going to rise. However, I think he can take another step forward in year 2 and up that K rate because his stuff suggests he can get more strikeouts. If it doesn't happen, ship him off to AAA and try out someone else. Busenitz is projecting to be cleaning up games and not pitching a bunch of high leverage situations, so it's not as if he'll be pitching in high leverage situations right off the bat.

     

    I guess it boils down to if a person thinks durability is an attribute, or just random luck.
    I feel it's an attribute, no different than a 95 mph fastball. Not everyone is capable of staying healthy, and I think Burdi is one of those guys.

    Personally I think it varies. Some guys have runs of bad luck. Others have chronic issues that are predictive. If the Twins assessed Burdi as the latter, then that's that. Maybe his elbow's never going to be able to handle how hard he throws. But plenty of players have gotten past early injury issues to fulfill their potential.

     

     

    But I'm 100% sure that Derek didn't turn to Thad and say" "Hey, I have a good idea. Let's swap out Burdi and Bard for Kinley, since he's obviously better." 

    You're probably right. I just don't get the thought process really, and can't figure it out. What did they expect to get with the 20th pick in the Rule 5 draft?

     

    If they cut one of those guys to sign Addison Reed, fine. But they could've made every move they've made so far with one of Burdi and Bard on the 40-man roster. Why not wait until you have to give them up? Especially Burdi, whose 40-man spot opens up again as soon as the season starts? 

     

    There's no rule against adding a guy to your roster ahead of the Rule 5 and then dropping him a month later when you sign a free agent, is there? (That's an honest question, maybe there is.)




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