The Twins' Top Hitters Have Been Among Their Worst

1 hour ago, Road trip said:

Sure, Wallner would bring something.  But if you trade him now you are selling low.  If you have concluded Wallner is not part of the long term plan I think you hold him for now, hope he has a better 2nd half, and then sell high(er) in the off season.

If you want to sell an outfielder now I think I would move either Bader or Larnach.  Bader is likely gone next year anyway, and for a contending team that needs a CF he is an obvious fit for the duration of the season.  Larnach, meanwhile, is having a season that is exactly in his expected range of outcomes.  He won't be worth more in the off season than what he would be worth today.  Larnach likely won't bring back as much as Wallner though, as after 1500 plate appearances everyone kind of knows what he is, so you can't sell any blue sky...

Both Wallner and Jones had very similar high values and now both have similar lower values. I'm asking whether a Wallner-Jones trade is a good idea now for the future of the team. Wallner is strictly a DH. I don't see the Twins using him solely in that role.

25 minutes ago, ToddlerHarmon said:

Pretty much this. It wouldn't qualify as "much", but getting an average-hitting backup catcher might be exactly what the Twins need. Would Larnach even fetch that?

No, he would not. Believe it or not, Larnach has more value as a DH/PH/1X per wk LF/RF to the Twins than to other teams. Larnach will not bring back anything worth discussing.

To be frank, the roster just isn’t that good.  Expecting a .900+ OPS out of Correa is just wreckless.  He’s never done that.  He performs adequately during the regular season offensively, but plays exceptionally during the playoffs.  He started incredibly slow this year, but had been serviceable ever since.  He could be better defensively, but that’s not really the discussion here.

Anyone else people are expecting to be world beaters, like Wallner, Larnach, Jeffers, Lewis, France, etc. are just way out of whack with reality.  These guys aren’t that good.  Wallner goes on a month long tear every year, and is abysmal outside of that.  That’s not changing.  Larnach is just a league average hitting outfielder.  That’s not changing.  Lewis has seemingly never played two consecutive games healthy in his life.  One short hit streak had everyone expecting him to be an elite level power hitter indefinitely.  That wasn’t reality.  When looking at this lineup from top to bottom, what did people really expect here?

A player not living up to unrealistic expectations isn’t always an indictment on the player, but of the expectation itself.  It was never realistic to think Lewis and Wallner were going to be the player we’ve seen in small samples.  Chris Parmelee comes to mind.  Great start to his career set the expectations way out of whack.  That’s an extreme example but it’s valid.

At the end of the day, who cares what the fans think.  They’re not paid to evaluate players.  If a front office is wrong consistently, that’s a problem.  Their job is to analyze and predict, why don’t they ever catch any heat on this?  Literally none.  In a real baseball market, they’d be getting lambasted for running some of these guys out there regularly.  We accept the excuses for their limitations, but rag on Royce Lewis for not hitting .320/.430/.700.  The FO being immune from any an all responsibility/accountability is starting to be even more exhausting than the milquetoast performance of the team.

Honestly, we’re going to roast guys like Ty France, but not the incompetence who signed him to be a key piece in the lineup?  How is it that the FO never catches any heat for anything?  They assembled this trash.

1 hour ago, Beast said:

To be frank, the roster just isn’t that good.  Expecting a .900+ OPS out of Correa is just wreckless.  He’s never done that.  He performs adequately during the regular season offensively, but plays exceptionally during the playoffs.  He started incredibly slow this year, but had been serviceable ever since.  He could be better defensively, but that’s not really the discussion here.

Anyone else people are expecting to be world beaters, like Wallner, Larnach, Jeffers, Lewis, France, etc. are just way out of whack with reality.  These guys aren’t that good.  Wallner goes on a month long tear every year, and is abysmal outside of that.  That’s not changing.  Larnach is just a league average hitting outfielder.  That’s not changing.  Lewis has seemingly never played two consecutive games healthy in his life.  One short hit streak had everyone expecting him to be an elite level power hitter indefinitely.  That wasn’t reality.  When looking at this lineup from top to bottom, what did people really expect here?

A player not living up to unrealistic expectations isn’t always an indictment on the player, but of the expectation itself.  It was never realistic to think Lewis and Wallner were going to be the player we’ve seen in small samples.  Chris Parmelee comes to mind.  Great start to his career set the expectations way out of whack.  That’s an extreme example but it’s valid.

At the end of the day, who cares what the fans think.  They’re not paid to evaluate players.  If a front office is wrong consistently, that’s a problem.  Their job is to analyze and predict, why don’t they ever catch any heat on this?  Literally none.  In a real baseball market, they’d be getting lambasted for running some of these guys out there regularly.  We accept the excuses for their limitations, but rag on Royce Lewis for not hitting .320/.430/.700.  The FO being immune from any an all responsibility/accountability is starting to be even more exhausting than the milquetoast performance of the team.

Honestly, we’re going to roast guys like Ty France, but not the incompetence who signed him to be a key piece in the lineup?  How is it that the FO never catches any heat for anything?  They assembled this trash.

A couple of people have been making suggestions for several years now that changes to the roster needed to be made to have a competitive team worth watching by the wider public. Perhaps a dribble instead of a torrent. However, your general point is acceptable. Talent plays. The time to strike was during each of the last two winters when  any number of Twins had high value. There was that brief moment when the front office did engage in the Lopez-Arraez trade. Did Miami initiate those conversations? I actually don't believe that matters. Currently the roster carries too many players suited for the DH position which is an anchor on the pitching staff.

Don't despair though because opportunities pop up on a routine basis. Perhaps the interest in some current Twins from other teams will awaken a pulse in the front office. The next two weeks should be a final exam for them (FO).

15 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I don't really want to pile on, but I can't remember an important homer that Wallner has hit all year. His home runs have come when the game was pretty much decided most of the time. The fact that he has driven in only six runs outside of his homers is mind boggling to me.  

Maybe, that is because when they game probably lost, the pressure is off and then just does what he then finds easy.

OR - just misfortune.

11 hours ago, stringer bell said:

His home runs have come when the game was pretty much decided most of the time.

Exactly.  He's not able to hit when it matters the most. The pressure to perform gets to him and he fails.

Hopefully he grows and figures it out.

Like Roy Smalley said about Wallner. 

" The balls he hit stay hit a long time"

Bottom line: lots of room for improvement with this bunch. But is it realistic to expect that better performances will happen in the second half?

14 hours ago, ToddlerHarmon said:

If you don't think tearing it down makes sense, why are you trading away Festa and ERod, who have a chance to contribute to winning as early as (checks watch) immediately?

Festa and ERod are still prospects at this time.   Selling them isn't tearing it down it is supplementing a core that can win.   Fest will never be more than a mid-rotation arm and ERod is enticing and could bring back some good value.    Tearing it down is sending away Duran, Jax, Ryan, etc.    I am suggesting trading value for need.   We can't just dump the Mirandas/Juliens of the world and expect to get high level talent

The only way a team makes a run in baseball is if multiple players have "career years" during the same season.  Right now, the Twins have Buxton doing it, Clemens (kind of), Castro, and Ryan.   That's it.

Sorry my friends, that ain't getting it done.

Another lost season during a long run of generally average to poor baseball. 

It is indeed sad to grow old and not have the pleasure of watching good baseball.  But, hopefully, there are other pleasures generating joy to get us through.

13 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I don't really want to pile on, but I can't remember an important homer that Wallner has hit all year. His home runs have come when the game was pretty much decided most of the time. The fact that he has driven in only six runs outside of his homers is mind boggling to me.  

The lack of RBI's is indeed becoming mind-boggling, no doubt.

The narrative on Wallner has been set I guess, but he has hit some valuable home runs this year.  I have too much time (apparently), so I'll list them here:

July 12, Wallner homers with the Twins already up big.

July 9, Cubs, Wallner homers in the 2nd to put the Twins up 3-0.  They won 4-2.

July 3, Marlins, Wallner homers to go from behind 4-0 to behind 4-1, which was the final score.  I suppose this one isn't worth much if you think a 4-0 lead is insurmountable.

Jun26, Mariners, Wallner homers with the Twins already up big.

June 20, Brewers, Wallner homers with the game out of reach.

June 10, Rangers, Wallner homers with the game out of reach

June 7, Toronto, Wallner homers in the 6th to put the Twins up 3-2.  They went on to lose by a run.

June 5, A's. Wallner homers in a game out of reach.

May 31, Mariners, Wallner homers in the 2nd to put the Twins up 3-0.  They lost.

April 9, KC, Wallner homers in the 8th to put the Twins up 3-0.

So...likely 4 clearly valuable homers, and maybe a 5th on July 3rd out of 10 total HRs.  I don't know if that is pretty typical or pretty bad.  Obviously we'd all prefer he'd save all homers for tie games, but it rarely works that way.

2 hours ago, saviking said:

in a team strapped for cash. I woukd give him away for nothing if someone would take him and his salary. But you wouldn't find any takers and that's the issue. 

These are the things that make you shake your head and wonder, "what were they thinking"?

The Twins gave Donaldson 4 years, $92 million at age 34, a total misfire. Somehow got lucky and escaped. Then what do they do? Turn around and hand Correa 6 years, $200 million… Mets and SF bail on him,  and yet, Twins bite. You’d think one expensive lesson would’ve been enough. Guess not.

Twins are now stuck with C4 till the end—unless they’re willing to eat half the contract just to give him away.  

My only hope is C4 seems to have a lot of respect for himself, being a leader, etc. His work ethic may bail him out to some degree. But not to the tune of 30+ million per year. 

3 hours ago, Road trip said:

So...likely 4 clearly valuable homers, and maybe a 5th on July 3rd out of 10 total HRs.  I don't know if that is pretty typical or pretty bad.  Obviously we'd all prefer he'd save all homers for tie games, but it rarely works that way.

 


Also, Wallner has a career total of 39 homers, but only 60 rbi's to go with them. 

24 minutes ago, BillyBallLives said:

Thanks for putting that together....just strange. All solo shots. 

 

Actually, not quite.  2 run HRs on 5/31, 6/20, and 6/26.  

thanks for the info....my source is incorrect then. 

The Twins are fielding a lineup that would be lucky to average .250 a game, which doesn't win you games unless you do have one of the five best rotations/bullpens in the biz, which  the Twins ahd before June 1.

They have no leadoff hitter or cleanup hitter. Buxton ad Correa are bette served btting, say, second and third.

Thank goodness for Bader and Castro coming off the bench allowing others to bat in the DH spot, not that the Twins have fulfilled that position with any great numbers. The bench is weak.

Looking at the Twins 40-man roster, there are 20 names that shouldn't be there come the off-season. Right now, you could replace five of them with guys looking to make the majors in St. Paul, replacing deadwood or potential free agents that NEED to be traded to add to the system.

5 hours ago, mickster said:

Selling them isn't tearing it down it is supplementing a core that can win. 

Every team has to have 8 position players and a pitcher on the field and bat 9 people. There are teams with a number of really good players that they can count on and a few teams with nearly nobody valuable. Byron Buxton and Carlos Correa, because he plays shortstop and has a no trade contract, are the only core players on the roster. That is it. Naming others is a complete reach. The next best player is utility player Willi Castro. Castro is a fine utility player. He is not a core player.

David Festa has good stuff. He was called up late last June and has less than a year's worth of starts. Plenty of teams would love to have him. 

In order for the Twins to "fix" the imbalances on their roster, they need change. Maybe some comes from their minor league system, such a Kaelen Culpepper. However, some will need to be via trades which may require moving a valued relief pitcher or a starter. A team of DH's hasn't worked to date and will not work in the future.

59 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Every team has to have 8 position players and a pitcher on the field and bat 9 people. There are teams with a number of really good players that they can count on and a few teams with nearly nobody valuable. Byron Buxton and Carlos Correa, because he plays shortstop and has a no trade contract, are the only core players on the roster. That is it. Naming others is a complete reach. The next best player is utility player Willi Castro. Castro is a fine utility player. He is not a core player.

David Festa has good stuff. He was called up late last June and has less than a year's worth of starts. Plenty of teams would love to have him. 

In order for the Twins to "fix" the imbalances on their roster, they need change. Maybe some comes from their minor league system, such a Kaelen Culpepper. However, some will need to be via trades which may require moving a valued relief pitcher or a starter. A team of DH's hasn't worked to date and will not work in the future.

This is why I'm all for tearing down this team. The core is a pitiful collection. Looking ahead to 2027, who would you want to make sure was on the Twins roster? 

Buxton and...??

Correa I would trade away in an instant if anything came up, but let's say he's designated as the immovable veteran, a la Javier Baez. 

Royce Lewis was always thought of as vital and now has proven himself now 26 years old to be a fairly unathletic, poor fielder that has hit .206/.267/.324 since last June 22nd in a not small sample of 412 PAs. 

Brooks Lee has always looked like a someone that will top out as a fine every day player, now a 24 year old that has barely hit better than Royce Lewis in even more playing time. 

Larnach and Wallner, both DHs thrown into the corners and neither with good enough of a bat to outshine their terrible defense. One of these types of players is fine for a roster, but the Twins have a plethora. 

So, aside from Buxton you're looking at a batch of mediocre players and then hoping on the prospects. Not exactly the brightest of futures in the Twins organization. Perhaps refusing to choose a direction for 2 (soon to be 3) seasons had some ramifications. 

On 7/14/2025 at 2:11 PM, LA VIkes Fan said:

Agree with the concept except I think Keaschall plays 1B. There's nowhere else to play him with the guys we have unless either Lewis or Lee goes to the bench. I would put in Keaschall for France and Martin or Julien for Keirsey depending on whether you want a RH hitting corner OF/5th OF, or another LH hitting 1B/2B. I would go with Martin, especially since he is tearing up AAA, but I could see either one as an add over Keirsey. 

I think the trade deadline will hopefully bring an end to Julien's reign of iron glove terror with the twins.  He is hitting pretty well and some team might want him.  It seems like Matthews will be back soon and perhaps Ober.  I doubt the Twins can get much for Paddack, so moving him to the pen could accomplish the need to lengthen the back end of the pen where he can work long or short relief.  Too late for this season, but I think Royce Lewis would look good with a first baseman's glove...unless he can no longer hit.  While I would love to see Castro stay, I doubt the Twins will re-sign him for the money he will deserve.  Consequently, they ought to be able to get something in return for him at the trade deadline.  Martin and/or Clemens would then fill his role.

50 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

This is why I'm all for tearing down this team. The core is a pitiful collection. Looking ahead to 2027, who would you want to make sure was on the Twins roster? 

Buxton and...??

Correa I would trade away in an instant if anything came up, but let's say he's designated as the immovable veteran, a la Javier Baez. 

Royce Lewis was always thought of as vital and now has proven himself now 26 years old to be a fairly unathletic, poor fielder that has hit .206/.267/.324 since last June 22nd in a not small sample of 412 PAs. 

Brooks Lee has always looked like a someone that will top out as a fine every day player, now a 24 year old that has barely hit better than Royce Lewis in even more playing time. 

Larnach and Wallner, both DHs thrown into the corners and neither with good enough of a bat to outshine their terrible defense. One of these types of players is fine for a roster, but the Twins have a plethora. 

So, aside from Buxton you're looking at a batch of mediocre players and then hoping on the prospects. Not exactly the brightest of futures in the Twins organization. Perhaps refusing to choose a direction for 2 (soon to be 3) seasons had some ramifications. 

I will take a different look at this, and maybe seeing it a bit to on the optimistic side but I see this differently.

Buxton is solid and so is Correa.  He is not the bat we do need, but his defense is too valuable now and may be our future 3B.

I am with you on Lewis.   If we could ever sell high on him, we should not hesitate.  I like Lee better and think he will be solid and is switch hitter who can play multiple spots.  I like Larnach over Wallner.  I think Larnach gives enough to be considered a must keep.   Wallner is enticing but needs more plate discipline and needs to pick up a 1B mitt.  However, saying one must go is understandable and I prefer that be Wallner.

Jeffers is solid at catcher.   Not great, but there are much worse and is a keeper.

The bullpen is a strength and the rotation is above average.   Ryan, Lopez, Ober, Paddack/Mathews, SWR I like all better then Festa.  We still have 2 years before a lot of FA's appaer and prefer to use that window to win.

Then we will know if Keaschall was a flash in the pan or the real deal and have other reinforcements coming.

22 hours ago, ToddlerHarmon said:

Pretty much this. It wouldn't qualify as "much", but getting an average-hitting backup catcher might be exactly what the Twins need. Would Larnach even fetch that?

Castro might.  And I would do that if the catcher has a couple of years of control.

24 minutes ago, Jeff K said:

I think the trade deadline will hopefully bring an end to Julien's reign of iron glove terror with the twins. 

I would like to see Julien moved as well. My suggestion is to send him along with Matt Wallner to Pittsburgh for the rehabbing Jared Jones (TJ internal brace surgery in late May/early June - out until next June at the earliest). Pittsburgh needs some bats. 

FWIW, Julien iron glove had a ton of equal company and he has been in AAA since May 2 this year, thus not much of a factor in the current situation.

Jones and Wallner have had nearly similar values when doing well and now too. So, neither selling high nor low seems like a fairly even gamble. Julien as a throw may help. Maybe add C. J. Culpepper to sweeten the deal for the Pirates. They need sweet.

1 hour ago, NYCTK said:

This is why I'm all for tearing down this team. The core is a pitiful collection. Looking ahead to 2027, who would you want to make sure was on the Twins roster? 

Buxton and...??

Correa I would trade away in an instant if anything came up, but let's say he's designated as the immovable veteran, a la Javier Baez. 

Royce Lewis was always thought of as vital and now has proven himself now 26 years old to be a fairly unathletic, poor fielder that has hit .206/.267/.324 since last June 22nd in a not small sample of 412 PAs. 

Brooks Lee has always looked like a someone that will top out as a fine every day player, now a 24 year old that has barely hit better than Royce Lewis in even more playing time. 

Larnach and Wallner, both DHs thrown into the corners and neither with good enough of a bat to outshine their terrible defense. One of these types of players is fine for a roster, but the Twins have a plethora. 

So, aside from Buxton you're looking at a batch of mediocre players and then hoping on the prospects. Not exactly the brightest of futures in the Twins organization. Perhaps refusing to choose a direction for 2 (soon to be 3) seasons had some ramifications. 

Brooks Lee and Jaylen Nowlin to Milwaukee for Jeferson Quero and Jared Koenig. Milwaukee gets a guy who can play around the infield as needed, the Twins get a catcher.

15 hours ago, mickster said:

I like Lee better and think he will be solid and is switch hitter who can play multiple spots. 

14 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Brooks Lee and Jaylen Nowlin to Milwaukee for Jeferson Quero and Jared Koenig. Milwaukee gets a guy who can play around the infield as needed,

Brooks Lee is maturing into a very poor man's Brice Turang. 

Brewers love their group of lighter hitting younger players filling out their IF but unlike Brooks, they've prioritized athleticism in their roster construction meaning faster, more dynamic, and better defense. 

Brooks Lee biggest shocker is that he's so slow.

He would have been the perfect prospect to flip after the 2023 playoffs or at the 2024 trade deadline to improve the team. The mediocre skills are very pronounced meaning you have to think his bat is going to become special, which could still happen but I don't see it. 

17 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

 

Brooks Lee is maturing into a very poor man's Brice Turang. 

Brewers love their group of lighter hitting younger players filling out their IF but unlike Brooks, they've prioritized athleticism in their roster construction meaning faster, more dynamic, and better defense. 

Brooks Lee biggest shocker is that he's so slow.

He would have been the perfect prospect to flip after the 2023 playoffs or at the 2024 trade deadline to improve the team. The mediocre skills are very pronounced meaning you have to think his bat is going to become special, which could still happen but I don't see it. 

Agree, but wonder if the Brewers see an immediate need/help and would deal from strength. Also willing to drop Koenig from deal. Just wondering what can be done.