The Twins’ Season Ended Thursday Night in the Most Fitting Way Possible

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

In terms of players I blame the hitting more than the pitching.  I don't accuse them of quitting, simply failing.  Not ready for analysis yet, just disgust with the outcome.

I think this should be emphasized. People associate all kinds of negative attributes to failing. Failing to drive in runs is not some sort of character flaw or moral defect. I’m sure every one of those players were trying hard probably too hard. 

I concur completely that it was not a matter of quitting, although I do wonder a little about self proclaimed slump proof Royce, who "ran out of gas" and whined about having to play 2nd base.  Otherwise, I think the effort was there, just no grasp of certain basics of the game.  I mentioned this elsewhere, but this manager simply does not believe in certain fundamentals.  As a team.......as a TEAM, we had 10 sacrifices all year.  As a team we only had 65 stolen bases all year.  Two of the most basic fundamentals you learn as a kid, bunting and base running, are not used to advance runners.  So when a player, any player, is called upon to bunt, how can we expect them to execute?  And base running, for this team, is advancing on a hit; we don't do well on anything else.  As for fielding, players are being asked to play multiple positions, not only throughout the year, but game by game.  We can't expect them to do every position well.  We only intentionally walked a batter for strategic purposes 14 times all year as well; none, by the way, by our top 6 starters (Varland had one but it doesn't show if it was as a starter or a reliever).  Not once, not ONCE did a starter run into a situation where setting up a double play or a force at every base would be advantageous?  Really?  Or does Rocco not believe in that aspect of the game as well?  Strike people out and hit for power; get your launch angle right.  That is our game plan game in and game out.  So when we need to execute the basics, and we can't, I have a hard time blaming the players.  

Just a very disappointing end, to a very disappointing season. PLENTY of blame to go around. Take your pick. We'll see what ends up happening, but if they don't make changes...then expect the same result. That can't happen.  They can't just sit back and dial this mess up next season. 

14 minutes ago, CRF said:

Just a very disappointing end, to a very disappointing season. PLENTY of blame to go around. Take your pick. We'll see what ends up happening, but if they don't make changes...then expect the same result. That can't happen.  They can't just sit back and dial this mess up next season. 

Exactly.  You want something better?  Then it is going to have to be something different. 

Cause if you do what you've always done, you're going to get what you've always got.

Don’t take this as I am making excuses for Correa, but I wonder if his feet are injured again? I was at Tuesday’s game and when he slowly pulled into third on a double by Buxton, if he was running at normal speed he scores easily - just as he would have beat that throw on the last play Thursday. 

Last year it was the Cubs who collapsed. This year it was the Twins. The failure of management to pick up a starter like maybe Tallion for not much killed us down the stretch. The bullpen was overworked, Ryan's injury hurt, going without Buxton and Correa for a long period hurt, Miranda stopped hitting after not playing consistenly and some of the guys were just worn out. And nothing from the minors was able to help us like it helped some other teams. It was definitely a team effort in the collapse. The big question now is, which was the real Twins team? The one who played well through mid-August or the one who failed in many areas down the stretch. The keys are there to bounce back so we'll see. I know you pointed out Correa's failure to run hard but how many players on all teams do not run hard even on routine grounders all around the infield. And Carlos was probably still playing hurt and had the biggest hits down the stretch.

Sell the team

7 hours ago, Mark G said:

I concur completely that it was not a matter of quitting, although I do wonder a little about self proclaimed slump proof Royce, who "ran out of gas" and whined about having to play 2nd base.  Otherwise, I think the effort was there, just no grasp of certain basics of the game.  I mentioned this elsewhere, but this manager simply does not believe in certain fundamentals.  As a team.......as a TEAM, we had 10 sacrifices all year.  As a team we only had 65 stolen bases all year.  Two of the most basic fundamentals you learn as a kid, bunting and base running, are not used to advance runners.  So when a player, any player, is called upon to bunt, how can we expect them to execute?  And base running, for this team, is advancing on a hit; we don't do well on anything else.  As for fielding, players are being asked to play multiple positions, not only throughout the year, but game by game.  We can't expect them to do every position well.  We only intentionally walked a batter for strategic purposes 14 times all year as well; none, by the way, by our top 6 starters (Varland had one but it doesn't show if it was as a starter or a reliever).  Not once, not ONCE did a starter run into a situation where setting up a double play or a force at every base would be advantageous?  Really?  Or does Rocco not believe in that aspect of the game as well?  Strike people out and hit for power; get your launch angle right.  That is our game plan game in and game out.  So when we need to execute the basics, and we can't, I have a hard time blaming the players.  

I’m not necessarily in on firing baldelli or the front office. Their problems were largely the lack of options by Twins brass to give them the options in the off-season. Ownership not allowing any spending whatsoever hamstrung this team last November. As far as hitting, base running and defense. The coaching staff needs to be overhauled. The fact that this was a problem last year mid season amazes me. Todays game is definitely based on HR’s but when everyone is struggling and pulling off the ball trying to hit a 5 run dinger every plate appearance is sickening. These hitting coaches need to be gone. In fact it should have been last season. The base running was also atrocious. Isn’t Paul Molitor supposed to be a base running guru? Where is he at? Who is their base running coach? You don’t need to lead the league in steals you just need to be smart and not make outs. I think on the defense front you need to have guy’s comfortable in their positions. I’m all for flexibility but shuffling guys around and sacrificing defense really showed this year. Willi Castro can do it but at some point it becomes a detriment. If you have too many guys at one position then you do what every team has done for decades. You trade from depth. Have Royce focus on 3rd. Have Lee focus at 2nd. Let them become prominent and don’t mess with it. Miranda should not be a 3rd baseman. Royce will get better there. And injuries. Again! Who is the strength and conditioning coach? The job should be more conditioning. The amount of muscle and soft tissue injuries is insane. The owners will never fire themselves which was the real problem but the coaching and approach could have been better. Non of this rant brings into question the handling of the TV situation and that was the real problem glaring since last year

2 hours ago, LanceJS said:

Don’t take this as I am making excuses for Correa, but I wonder if his feet are injured again? I was at Tuesday’s game and when he slowly pulled into third on a double by Buxton, if he was running at normal speed he scores easily - just as he would have beat that throw on the last play Thursday. 

This was known. Those 2 were not 100% or even 85%. They played like the stars they are but when nobody else can do anything 2 guys are not going to carry an offense.

Correa just called out the *the younger guys" for slacking. 

Every position player on the team but Buxton and Correa played multiple positions.Why didn't they,how about Buxton at SS and Correa in CF.This team is a mess and probably will be next year as well.They went from 17 games over 500 to 1 game over in a month.Clean house or suffer the consequences next year.But we all know ticket prices will be going up next year.

3 hours ago, twinfan said:

Last year it was the Cubs who collapsed. This year it was the Twins. The failure of management to pick up a starter like maybe Tallion for not much killed us down the stretch. The bullpen was overworked, Ryan's injury hurt, going without Buxton and Correa for a long period hurt, Miranda stopped hitting after not playing consistenly and some of the guys were just worn out. And nothing from the minors was able to help us like it helped some other teams. It was definitely a team effort in the collapse. The big question now is, which was the real Twins team? The one who played well through mid-August or the one who failed in many areas down the stretch. The keys are there to bounce back so we'll see. I know you pointed out Correa's failure to run hard but how many players on all teams do not run hard even on routine grounders all around the infield. And Carlos was probably still playing hurt and had the biggest hits down the stretch.

I think the realistic chance of contending ended with Ryan's injury.  Twins only had two go to starters after that.  And then everything unraveled.  Terrible.

Chip Scoggins article in the paper today hit the nail on the head.  Pohlads either need to reinvest in the team or sell the team.  We talk about not making change and expecting different results; however, it starts with the ownership.  And they blew it 100%.  And how ridiculous was it to blame the TV Contract situation on salary reduction.  Any smart business person builds in a plan B and plan C especially when there is so much risk.  All that said, fair or not, Baldelli has to go.  The fan base is mostly disgusted with him and it certainly appears that the players aren't hearing him.  What a mess.

On 9/29/2024 at 7:44 AM, LanceJS said:

Don’t take this as I am making excuses for Correa, but I wonder if his feet are injured again? I was at Tuesday’s game and when he slowly pulled into third on a double by Buxton, if he was running at normal speed he scores easily - just as he would have beat that throw on the last play Thursday. 

He was out at 1st for not even jogging. Once it was misplayed, he picked up the pace. Inexcusable.