Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account
  • Twins News & Analysis

    Should the Twins Trade One Of Bailey Ober or Joe Ryan? And If So, Which?


    Matthew Lenz

    While it has taken longer than some expected, the Minnesota Twins regime formerly known as “Falvine” has built one of the best pitching pipelines in all of baseball. With some of those pitchers at or close to the major-league level, there's an opportunity for the Twins to explore the trade market for their more experienced pitchers.

    Image courtesy of Left: © Matt Krohn-Imagn Images; Right: © David Banks-Imagn Images;

    Twins Video

    In addition to David Festa and Zebby Matthews, who each debuted in 2024, the Twins added Marco Raya to their 40-man roster ahead of the Rule 5 Draft and have more prospects, such as Andrew Morris and Cory Lewis, close to ready for the majors. A little further away, you have C.J. Culpepper and Connor Prielipp, who are both prospects on the rise. While prospect development (especially for pitchers) is never linear, the Twins have plenty of “bullets in the chamber” if they were to explore the trade market of one of their established starters.

    Cody Christie recently looked at the idea of trading Pablo López and, of course, Chris Paddack has been the subject of trade conversation among Twins Daily writers, as well. The challenging part about moving either of those would be their contracts: López is locked up long-term and Paddack’s $7.5 million may be more than some teams are willing to pay without getting an additional asset. However, Joe Ryan and Bailey Ober are similarly solid starters with more cost-effective team control left. They figure to have substantial trade value. It would be wild for the Twins to trade both of these arms but, if they had to pick one, which one makes a better trade candidate? Let’s dive in.

    Before looking at the outlooks of Ryan and Ober, we have to establish what the goal of dealing either of the two would be. Would the Twins look to keep the better pitcher, or would they look to trade whichever guy would net more in return? Given the team is within a competitive window, I would err on the side of keeping whomever they deem the better of the two pitchers. From a controllability perspective, both players are in their first year of arbitration and Cot’s Baseball Contracts projects them to earn somewhere in the ballpark of $3.5 million in 2025.

    Joe Ryan
    Ryan is coming off a productive season shortened by a right shoulder injury. Across 135 innings, he carried a 3.60 ERA, a 3.44 FIP and an impressive 23.0% K-BB rate. He features one of the best fastballs in the gam; the pitch has accrued a run value of 47 since he permanently joined the rotation in 2022. As was the trend ahead of the 2024 season, he added a splitter to his arsenal and it quickly became his second-most used and most effective pitch. His sweeper and slider grade out as below-average pitches.

    I really like Ryan’s long-term outlook, because he is more of a crafty pitcher than one who relies on power. I think that reduces the risk of significant injury and increases the likelihood that his production is sustainable. My biggest concern with Ryan is his aforementioned pitch arsenal featuring just two plus pitches, and I think he could really benefit from developing his slider more. Without developing a third out pitch, I think his value now is the highest it will be as a solid number two on a competitive team.

    Bailey Ober
    Overall, Ober had a very solid 2024 season. He would have been a dark-horse Cy Young Award candidate, if we could just remove the five worst starts of his season. Those clunkers accounted for more than 40% of his earned runs, bloating his ERA to 3.98. Regardless, he posted a solid 20.8% K-BB rate and a 93rd-percentile chase rate, thanks to three plus offerings. 

    Similar to Ryan, Ober is a crafty pitcher who relies on his command of the strike zone, as opposed to overpowering hitters. I think that bodes well for his long-term outlook. Unlike Ryan, Ober doesn’t have the “stuff” to overcome days where he is struggling to locate, which leads to the blow-ups we saw in 2024. From a Stuff+ perspective, his changeup is the only plus pitch in his arsenal, which gives him little room for error; hitters feast when a pitch gets too much of the plate. I’d be interested to see him deploy his curveball more. That pitch has generated positive results in a very, very small sample (1.1% usage in 2024, 6.7% in 2023, 11.9& in 2022) and grades out decently via Stuff+. While I think he has proven that those implosions are few and far between, I worry that they will continue if his changeup is the only pitch with an above-average Stuff+. Again, similar to Ryan, I think Ober’s value is at its peak, given his production and team control, and will always be viewed as a solid number three on a competitive team.

    So Who Should We Trade?
    Well, I’m not going to put my foot in the ground and say Minnesota should trade one of these two. While their value may be at its ceiling, I think a top of the rotation of López, Ryan, and Ober bodes very well, even in October. But, if the Twins were to explore the trade market of one of these two, I’d like them to shop Ober. I think the two carry roughly the same market value, but Ryan is the better of the two. The one thing that might sway my opinion is if we had insight on their signability, as the two are close enough in value and productivity that if one of them indicated they’d be willing to ink a team-friendly extension, I could be convinced to keep that arm over the other.


    Do you think we should trade one of Joe Ryan or Bailey Ober given the depth of our minor league system? Join the conversation in the comments!

    Follow Twins Daily For Minnesota Twins News & Analysis

    Recent Twins Articles

    Recent Twins Videos

    Twins Top Prospects

    Marek Houston

    Cedar Rapids Kernels - A+, SS
    The 22-year-old went 2-for-5 on Friday night, his fourth straight multi-hit game. Heading into the week, he was hitting .246/.328/.404 (.732). Four games later, he is hitting .303/.361/.447 (.808).

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

    It's not something I'd be actively looking to do, but you should always be listening and there's a price for everything. As to which one you'd trade it's the one you can get the most for. If somebody is willing to hand you an MLB ready catcher and pre-arb middle of the order bat it's certainly something to think about long and hard.

    I'd be shocked if they got much better, though. Where are all you folks seeing the possibility for more upside? Just because they debuted at 25 so they feel young doesn't mean they have more upside. They're on the backside of their prime. They're not likely candidates to improve. Bailey Ober turns 30 next season. It's more likely he starts declining than he sees any kind of real improvement. I don't think this offseason is the time to do it, but selling Ober after the 2025 season is probably the smart thing for a team in the Twins financial situation to do.

    If SWR, Zebby, Festa, or someone else can establish themselves as a legit MLB starter trading Ober with 2 years of control left would bring in a really nice return. So many around here say you can win with a 130 mil payroll. Well, that's how you do it. This article is a year too soon, but this is the strategy teams in this payroll range need to follow if they want to win consistently. Joe and Bailey aren't young. They're veteran pitchers now. They're in arbitration. And once they're down to their last 2 years of control trades become a real possibility if ownership wants to swim in the shallow end of the payroll pool.

    Clicky McClickbait.  Other articles for the immediate future:

    Why trading Buxton and Correa for prospects (while paying their salary) is a good thing
    How the Twins will sign Juan Soto and Pete Alonso.
    Do we need to trade Walker Jenkins now?

    For the record:  I did not read this article, I only clicked on it to comment.

    The Twins finished in 4th place in the AL Central in 2024. That was pretty much where their talent placed them. If the team is to improve their position in the division they either need a humungous pile of luck or they need to make some changes.

    2 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

    I will just say, as always, it depends on the return. If a difference maker is coming back, you have to listen. 

    The article doesn’t identify the most pressing needs of the team. Is it a first baseman, outfielder,…what. Trading from the strength of the team just to trade is terrible management… but I guess it’s the front office that landed Tyler Mahle. 

    2 minutes ago, hitterscount said:

    The article doesn’t identify the most pressing needs of the team. Is it a first baseman, outfielder,…what. Trading from the strength of the team just to trade is terrible management… but I guess it’s the front office that landed Tyler Mahle. 

    I'd still do that trade every single time. Sometimes guys get injured, and I'm glad they added a playoff starting pitcher in season. The results didn't work out, but the plan was good.

    I don't know exactly who it would be that would be coming back. But you have to listen on your players and gauge their value no?

    2 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

    I will just say, as always, it depends on the return. If a difference maker is coming back, you have to listen. 

    Why would someone trade a better, MLB-ready pitcher with more team control for Ryan or Ober. That's what it would take to make sense. Detroit would have to call and offer Skubal for Ober.

    11 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

    Why would someone trade a better, MLB-ready pitcher with more team control for Ryan or Ober. That's what it would take to make sense. Detroit would have to call and offer Skubal for Ober.

    No, I don't think someone would trade a better pitcher for them. Or at least not a better one as of today.

    I figured if we were to trade one of them (and I'm not saying I'm for it) it'd be for a middle of the lineup type hitter who could make a difference there.

    I'm not even getting in to who that player would be. Just saying that is the kind of move I could see happen is all.

    My answer is similar to any trade ask, if the price is right make the deal.  What the price is I do not know.  I personally would not shop either but if right deal comes along I would always listen.  Despite having several guys looking ready to jump in, we do not know how they will truly do.  Additionally, we do not know how many pitchers will be needed any given year.  Keeping depth is always important.  

    However, it is important to try to maximize value of players.  Trading them at their peak knowing you will either not sign long term or they will lose value as a player you should trade them to recoup that value if you can replace them in the line up.

    Cleveland showed that for years.  They would trade away top pitchers that many wondered why, only to have that pitcher drop off in production, get injured, or off the field stuff came up.  They continued to compete for division over years despite their continued trade of top pitchers, mainly because they had guys in the wings to fill in. 

    1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

    I'd be shocked if they got much better, though. Where are all you folks seeing the possibility for more upside? Just because they debuted at 25 so they feel young doesn't mean they have more upside. They're on the backside of their prime. They're not likely candidates to improve. Bailey Ober turns 30 next season. It's more likely he starts declining than he sees any kind of real improvement. I don't think this offseason is the time to do it, but selling Ober after the 2025 season is probably the smart thing for a team in the Twins financial situation to do.

    I think this is the only angle that makes a trade make any sense at all, but I still have a hard time imagining a return that makes any sense in the short term. Even though these guys could very well regress before their contracts are up, relying on them to continue contributing is still less of a gamble than expecting one of the guys coming up to replace them. I think you only make the trade if the return is good enough to plan around a worse starting rotation with less depth.

    14 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

    It all depends on your view of the team.  If you think the team can win 95 games, the answer is trade neither.  If you think the team will win 75 games, the answer is trade both.  If you think somewhere in between, the answer is wait until the trade deadline, or wait to be blown away by the offer.

    I think people are underestimating how mediocre this team is right now and how high the hill is in order to actually make them respectable considering we know the Pohlads are cheapass and don't want to invest any more in their asset. 

    This team IS a 75 win team as constructed right now. And the effort to build them up to a 90 win team in one offseason with zero dollars to spend is a Herculean task. 

    The fans are already lost as we saw at the end of last season, so what's the real risk in a proper rebuild phase? But we know the Twins are always half measure so we should expect them to shoot for 84 wins and be shocked that no fans are excited by the league's most mediocre franchise. 

    18 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

    I think people are underestimating how mediocre this team is right now and how high the hill is in order to actually make them respectable

    This team IS a 75 win team as constructed right now.

    Disagree. They won 82 games last season and they only players worth a darn leaving are Santana and Kepler. They have some young talent that underperformed last year (Lewis, Julien, Duran) and some more who could contribute in 2025 (Festa, Matthews, Rodriguez, Keaschall, Brooks Lee). They're not that far off.

    14 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

    Disagree. They won 82 games last season and they only players worth a darn leaving are Santana and Kepler. They have some young talent that underperformed last year (Lewis, Julien, Duran) and some more who could contribute in 2025 (Festa, Matthews, Rodriguez, Keaschall, Brooks Lee). They're not that far off.

    They won 82 games in the division featuring the worst team in MLB history. Their run differential was -33 against teams that weren't the White Sox. They played like a 77 win team in those games. 

    And they're losing their starting RF and 1B and are still allegedly over budget. 

    They do have some players that could feasibly perform better in 2025 like you said. But they have as many that could perform worse. I'll take the under on Buxton at 100 games. I'll take the under on Wallner 0.389 BABIP but at least his likely additional playing time should make his actual value a wash. Hopefully. 

    I'm just saying, this team is way closer to being a 75 win team than a 90 win team. And if you're not aiming to at least be a 90 win team, you should be more concerned with future seasons than hoping fans buy into a mediocre product. 

    12 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

    They won 82 games in the division featuring the worst team in MLB history. Their run differential was -33 against teams that weren't the White Sox. They played like a 77 win team in those games. 

    Did they switch divisions this offseason? The White Sox are going to be terrible again in 2025. All they need to do is win more games than Kansas City, Detroit and Cleveland.

    1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

    Did they switch divisions this offseason? The White Sox are going to be terrible again in 2025. All they need to do is win more games than Kansas City, Detroit and Cleveland.

    Something they failed to do last year, and they've gotten worse (so far) with fans hoping to trade away salary in hopes of signing a budget veteran like Mark Canha. 

    I'd likely take the over on 75 wins, but I think I'm taking the under on 80 right now. 

    This is a legit article.  The only thing missing from this article is a couple of examples of what Ryan or Ober COULD bring back in a trade.  I agree with chpettit19 and tony&rodney and others who make it clear "It Always Depends on What is Coming Back."  

    And teams like Cleveland and Tampa Bay have shown this kind of approach can very successful.  So while I don't advocate for trading either, but I'm not going to turn my face to the wall and throw a fit over the idea either.  

    It could be debated whether the Twins are actually "IN A WINDOW" of being a contender.  With an ownership group who tanked a potentially promising 2024 by cutting payroll and then gifting the team and fan base with Trevor Richards at the deadline, and continuing to shout from the mountain top that "WE'RE CUTTING PAYROLL AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN..." it's fair to wonder if we are contenders.

    Ryan and Ober are both good pitchers.  It's safe to say that we would be in a less competitive position for 2025 if we traded one of them.  But again, it depends on what you're getting back.  tony&rodney mentioned Ober for Jarren Duran.  I would do that trade in a heartbeat.  Duran is a very good CF who can also play either corner. 

    He's a dynamite leadoff hitter who posted an 8.7 WAR season in 2024.  He's 28 years old and after being a top Red Sox prospect for a few years really put it together in 2024 after having a good 2023 season.  He led the A.L. in doubles (48) and triples (14) while cracking 21 HR's and had 34 SB's.  He would look absolutely fabulous at the top of our order and in CF.  You could shift Buxton to LF where his defense would still be outstanding but there would be less wear and tear.  

    Why would Boston trade him?  They are absolutely desperate for SP and their top prospect is a CF.  They could fall back to Rafaela Ceddane to play CF in 2025 with Trevor Story playing SS.  Rather than pay $20-$30 million or more for multiple rotation pieces, Boston may view Ober or Ryan as a perfect, low cost fit.   

    You could then replace Ober in the rotation with Griffin Jax.  After seeing what salaries pitchers are getting on the FA market already, does anyone think that has dampened Jax's determination to be a SP?  Heck No!  It's enflamed it.  And it's probably time to start using that pitching pipeline we've been developing anyway.  

    The Twins are going to have to pay Ober eventually.  The Twins would have to pay Jarren Duran as well, so that's a wash.  Ober is 30.  Duran is 28.  I like the idea of getting a solid CF, dynamic leadoff hitter on our team.  

    I for one appreciate what the staff at TD churn out on a daily basis.  That's not an easy job, but it's fun to read about baseball and what the Twins "could" or "might" do during a long, cold off season.  Rather than criticizing and spouting off about what a terrible idea everything is, put a little time and effort into considering the positives and negatives of the proposed moves and state your case with a well thought out response.  Don't just say "I didn't even read the article but..."  That's just lazy.  I don't mean to call out the specific guy who wrote that.  It's the general uproar that follows when an article like this gets posted and people type before they ponder.  

    I have concerns the Twins are still in a competitive window given the strongly negative vibes our ownership has sent the fan base and I'm not sure how much confidence I have in Falvey to even pull of a trade of this magnitude.  The Twins do have some talent and could be competitive.  A lot of that depends on young talent, Lewis, Lee, Julien, Jeffers, bouncing back, guys like Wallner, Miranda and Larnach continuing to improve and become more consistent and The health of Correa, Buxton and the starting rotation being able to stay healthy enough to produce like they're capable of.  But, one way or the other, it's either going to happen or it isn't.  Nothing I post on here is going to influence what the Twins eventually end up doing.  The debate to me is always fun, even if it appears to some on TD to be an absurd waste of time.  

    When the deadline deals were being discussed several years ago, I was rather pointedly opposed to acquiring Mahle because he was injured and I did not believe in him. When the trade was done I supported it in my online comments because it, at the very least, displayed an attempt to improve the team. 

    There are trade suggestions I read that I disagree with now if they do not improve the team defensively. Yet, again, I'm really hoping that there is a deal of some type attempting to increase the talent on the team. No player is untouchable from their current roster. I'm only putting two prospects on my untouchable list, Jenkins and Keaschall. Somehow, Falvey & Sons need to do something.

     

     




    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...