Playing Hurt: A Painful Debate

For some the analysis of a problem means finding ways to criticize.  They can also justify it by sying they are being tough on the Twins, or whomever. This is the Souhans  of the world as well as many on the internet.

There is either a culture of playing hurt, maybe exacerbated by misdiagnosis or magically people need an operation suddenly days after the season ends. This year Collabello Nolasco was playing wounded then the knife. A couple years ago Diamond  fit the description, before that it was Blackburn.  I am not recalling some of the others. They get to be called routine procedures, but if you need a procedure, you are not healthy.

I don't necessarily blame the team for players who play hurt.  If I were in Cola's situation, I would feel like I was fighting for my career with every at-bat.  If I say I'm hurt, it gives the team a reason to look elsewhere.

My daughter is a college varsity soccer player who got relatively little playing time last year as a freshman.  She was competing for a starting spot this fall, and was given a chance in the first game of the season.  The day before she had taken a pretty bad fall due to a collision in practice and hurt her neck.  She warmed up for the game, and didn't feel ready to play.  The coach told her to talk to the trainer, the trainer told her she should sit out, and the coach has held it against her all fall, reminding her that when she did get a chance to start, she wasn't "mentally ready".  Because I guess having an injury means you aren't mentally ready.  This is of course one of 36 million similar stories from athletes.

Why would I risk that with a major league career?  I would do what I did in my college career- suck it up, rub a little dirt on it, get on the field, and let the coach tell me if I'm too injured to play.  Dumb idea, but it's a natural way to do it.

Probably like everyone else on this site, I don't have knowledge of Mauers injurys, so you have to listen to people who are closer to the situation.  I would think Souhan & Reusse are closer to the clubhouse and would have better information on the culture.  I'm not hearing any teammates jumping out and defending Mauer toughness.  The only time I remember anyone talking about was Torii Hunter, who basically agreed with Souhan & Reusse.

All that being said, Mauer just need to go out and play 150 games and drive in 100 runs.  It's really up to him to show he can still produce.

I don't necessarily blame the team for players who play hurt.  If I were in Cola's situation, I would feel like I was fighting for my career with every at-bat.  If I say I'm hurt, it gives the team a reason to look elsewhere.

THIS.  It has to be easier to beg out when your job is secure rather than when you are the 24th or 25th man.

I thought both stories were exaggerations and I suspect similar circumstances with most teams.

Probably like everyone else on this site, I don't have knowledge of Mauers injurys, so you have to listen to people who are closer to the situation.  I would think Souhan & Reusse are closer to the clubhouse and would have better information on the culture.  I'm not hearing any teammates jumping out and defending Mauer toughness.  The only time I remember anyone talking about was Torii Hunter, who basically agreed with Souhan & Reusse.

Sure a AAAA player will want to hold onto his spot and collect as many checks and hope to breakthrough and earn another contract.  Other teams have guys that don't tell their coaches about injuries as well. I drafted Tony Cingrani last year in my fantasy league.  He was awful for about 6-7 starts and then told the coach he was pitching hurt.  It happens all over.

However, I think it is a completely fair thing to say that nobody has ever described Joe Mauer as tough, gritty,or hard nosed.  Part of that is the contract.  Concussions are un-avoidable.  To this day, nobody really knows what bi-lateral leg weakness is.

But I completely agree that Souhan and Ruesse are around the club house and probably hear whispers or get the reaction on guys faces when they are asked about Mauer.  Is anyone really going to come out and say what they think?  Probably not.

So i will at least be open to the idea that a grain of truth exists to the notion that Mauer takes days off where guys, say Cal Ripkin would not.  Or even Robinson Cano, the guy has missed about a game a year from 2007 to 2014. 

Regarding the missing games for bruises....I googled "Joe Mauer and bruise" and quickly found four instances since 2010 where he has missed time with bruises. I only looked on the first two pages.  There could be more. I also think he had a shin issue at one point, stiff back a few times, etc.

Bruised Heel  5 days

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5155712  

Bruised Thumb  5 days

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8013790/minnesota-twins-joe-mauer-sidelined-bruised-thumb  

Bruised elbow  Missed 8 innings one day and next game

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/09/23/twins-1b-mauer-leaves-with-bruised-right-elbow/ 

Bruised thigh  4 days

http://www.twincities.com/ci_20910974/minnesota-twins-joe-mauer-sits-again-bruised-thigh  

It seems like a corner has been turned - a few years ago, the Twins' medical staff was getting blasted for the phrase "rest and rehab." Do people still think that the medical/training staff are under diagnosing injuries? Or is it the opposite now? The Medical Staff is now too quick to say that a player has to sit or needs to go on the DL?

I think the point diehard makes about effectiveness while injured is a good one. In my mind, it is a question of communication between, player, coach and medical staff.

If a starter gets shelled, maybe they were just off that day, or maybe they are experiencing enough pain that they are not able to pitch mechanically sound. The coaches should be able to see the mechanics part of it, the player should feel free to tell the trainers what the discomfort is, and the trainer should be able to tell player and coach what can be done medically to heal / repair the injury.

If the player is performing well, but is in tremendous pain, they should be able to tell the trainer that, too.  

In my opinion, Reusse and Souhan write to an audience that makes some of the most inane comments possible. That is what they get paid for.  I admit that I enjoy reading some of their stuff, but like politicians, I try to take what they put out with a grain a salt. They create a narrative that is just plausible enough to gain traction and then feed the beast. On any team in any sport, there will be players who routinely play through injuries and players who routinely need to be at 100% to perform. I believe that Joe's concussion took longer to get over than he was willing to sit out. If he had gotten off to a great (normal?) first half before the oblique, would we be even talking about this?

Excellent piece, Nick.  I wold say both articles cited were attempting to do exactly what it accomplished: Us talking about their writing.  Living in Chicago, I've had to listen to everyone question Jay Cutler and the old NFC title game where he didn't play the second half due to a knee strain.  His manhood was questioned by everyone from athletes to talk show hosts, to little kids in my school.  Had he gone out there and stunk up the joint, they'd have been all over his ass for playing hurt and not thinking of the team.  It's a no win situation when it comes to injuries.....

Not all bruises are created equal, especially when involving a collision. I've had a bone bruise on my foot that kept me from walking right for a couple of weeks and a nasty one on my shin that kept me off my feet for a few days. Missing between 2 and 5 games for a bad bruise isn't unreasonable.

That is a true statement. 

But I don't think it is ridiculous or an exageration to say he has missed time with bruises, as the article suggested.  He in fact has missed them on at least four occasions.

I guess for me, Cal Ripken played almost 20 years without missing a game. Brett Favre went around ten years in a much more violent sport.  Guys like Cano play every day.  I am guessing a time or two existed when those guys had bruises, even really bad one's.  Those are extreme examples.  But I think as a starting point, some players gut it out through things that Joe Mauer does not.  I think that is a fair and reasonable conclusion.

I had a bone bruise in my foot that kept me from walking right for almost 2 weeks. Had one on my shin that took me out for a few days. It isn't unreasonable to lose some time after a bruise in certain situations, especially where a collision was involved. 2-5 games is hardly unreasonable when you get these.

I actually think he might have come back too early from that bruised heel and it might have been one instance where a DL stint, while not popular with the fans might have been smart.  It was definitely effecting him, and I have always wondered if he over-compensated and that helped lead to some of the knee issues that derailed him that September and really was the start of what would develop the following year in the bi-lateral leg weakness saga.  I remember him (or one of the coaches) saying he had to overcome a number of bad habits he picked up while playing with the bruised foot.

There have been times when I have wondered if Mauer could have returned from an injury sooner, but seeing him get some whopper foul tips etc behind the plate and continue playing, when it comes to bruises, as a catcher I give him the benefit of the doubt that it is not an ordinary bruise that keeps him out of a game.   With all the talk of him being soft, and maybe there are times when he could have played, due to his former position he probably has experience and played with more pain than a lot of his critics.

I've recent;y discovered that people have vastly differing tolerance for pain.  I shattered my upper arm, had 3 plates and a pin put in and literally felt no pain w/in 3 days of the surgery (i made them take me off morphine and didn't even need tyleno)l.

And except for some acid reflux, no pain while hospitalized for 2 weeks.

I have never been stoic so this was a revelation -- the doctors (and especially the nurses) were flabbergasted.

No one can judge pain levels except the person involved -- they need to be honest so the trainers can judge what can be "played through".

I've recent;y discovered that people have vastly differing tolerance for pain.  I shattered my upper arm, had 3 plates and a pin put in and literally felt no pain w/in 3 days of the surgery (i made them take me off morphine and didn't even need tyleno)l.

 

And except for some acid reflux, no pain while hospitalized for 2 weeks.

 

I have never been stoic so this was a revelation -- the doctors (and especially the nurses) were flabbergasted.

 

No one can judge pain levels except the person involved -- they need to be honest so the trainers can judge what can be "played through".

This might make you the Brett Favre of Twins Daily.

For those that don't know, Baseball Prospectus keeps incredibly detailed injury information (injury type, dates, days/games missed, etc.) in the "Injury History" section of their player pages.  Sure beats using Google!  Here is Mauer's page, scroll down below the stats to find the injury history:

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=31759

 

I should add, access to this info is all free -- you don't have to be a subscriber to Prospectus.

It is hard to look at the list of injuries and conclude he is a tough it out kind of guy. 

Mauer's 2015 injury report will be a telling list - has Gardy been holding Mauer out of the lineup as a precaution? Will Molitor continue the tradition? Is it the Front Office giving direction to the on field staff with respect to their biggest contract?

That is a true statement. 

 

But I don't think it is ridiculous or an exageration to say he has missed time with bruises, as the article suggested.  He in fact has missed them on at least four occasions.

 

I guess for me, Cal Ripken played almost 20 years without missing a game. Brett Favre went around ten years in a much more violent sport.  Guys like Cano play every day.  I am guessing a time or two existed when those guys had bruises, even really bad one's.  Those are extreme examples.  But I think as a starting point, some players gut it out through things that Joe Mauer does not.  I think that is a fair and reasonable conclusion.

Toward the end of Ripken's career people were calling him selfish for insisting he be in the lineup when he was clearly not helping the team. Tough,maybe, but that isn't always best.

Toward the end of Ripken's career people were calling him selfish for insisting he be in the lineup when he was clearly not helping the team. Tough,maybe, but that isn't always best.

That may be, but even if he only had 15 years without  missing a game....that is a far cry.

I wonder if being "injury-prone" is related to the aggressiveness with which one plays the game.  I honestly have no sense of whether Ripken went after fielding opportunities with reckless abandon or not.  Buxton may be an example of someone who plays too hard and takes risks.  He gets hurt frequently, it seems.  Don't we really want players who play balls to the wall?  Or not?

As far as Mauer is concerned, I believe that a fire does burn inside of him to win and to be a big part of the next winning Twins squad.

Sure, the guy isn't a ramped up on edge kind of dude and his injuries have been amplified since he signed his big contract coming off an unrepeatable season.

Saying that, I really don't know what to expect. Some people grow older a lot more quickly than others. I do believe that every person is genetically different and their physical ability clocks tick to a different time frame.

Mauer may be unlucky with ailments and he will break out next season with a .900 OPS season or he may be used up and a 40 year old in a 32 year old body. Who knows?

Maybe next season will give us the answer?