Marlins 8, Twins 6 (13 Innings): Horrible Situational Hitting Costs Twins Game, Season

6 hours ago, UK Twin said:

If that is indeed the case then Popkins and Maki have to go. Someone needs to be held accountable for this utter farce. Can't blame the Pohlad's for this collapse (well, not entirely). The coaching and managing has been abysmal. The buck should stop with Baldelli. It's his team, he should be the one to be fired. But there are valid arguments for the dismissal of Popkins and Maki (Popkins in particular) instead. The hitting has been largely abysmal with RISP. While the pitching has also gone backwards, Maki may get a pass due to the sheer number of injuries there. 

Our season was on the line and we lost a home series to Miami. Are you kidding me? That is embarrassing. 

I have a bit of reluctance with letting Maki depart. He had three rookies as starting pitchers, there was no assistance in upgrading the bullpen or at least solid ones, injuries, and I question how much influence he had with the revolving door issue,,,e.g Alcala here one day gone the next, then back again. I also question Watkins who waived people home enough times that influenced the outcome of games. A catcher ended up holding the ball and waited for the runner. The runner would be caught in a hot box between the catcher and 3rd baseman. 

8 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Is there a business in the world that operates on this fantasy of not investing any of their own money until customers spend enough to cover costs?  The "blame the fans" theory going around TD is just mind boggling to me.  The Pohlads got a half billion dollar handout from fans. More than 20 million fans have spent hard earned money at Target Field. The value of the franchise has increased by a billion dollars since the Pohlads bought it despite them having poor business savvy and having multiple long stretches of abysmal baseball teams.  They need to invest more into this franchise, period.  Fans are not obligated to spend money on a terrible product in the hopes that maybe, just maybe the Pohlads would reinvest it...but given everything we know about them, there's no guarantee they wouldn't just pocket it and cut payroll anyway, just like they did this year.  

Investment is a vital part of any business. One has to spend money to make money as well as select the right personnel to operate your company.  Status quo with no personnel changes when there is a downturn does not work well.

11 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Basically, since the Twins hosted the Yankees in mid-May, I checked out. I didn't follow the Twins even a bit. No box scores, no standings, no Twins Daily, no Gleeman and the Geek, nothing. It's actually surprisingly easy to forget this team exists when you don't make a point to follow them.

On Sunday, I checked back in. Based on a few things I overheard over the summer, my guess was that they were at least in Wild Card contention. And I guess they were, kinda.

Here's what I want to say to those who were here the whole time: I'm sorry. You deserve better. We all deserve better. And if this organizational incompetence is too much for you, if you want to finally break away, it is possible for months at a time, maybe even a whole season. I'm not a betting man, but based on what I've read and seen just this week, the future of this organization is not what one could call bright. This is a slow team with undisciplined young players and very little direction or fire. Sounds like the farm system isn't in great shape, either. 

And while I used to push for a rebuild, I don't think I care enough at this point. I'm just planning on enjoying another Twins-free summer next year. Feel free to join me.

Way to not watch all summer and then post that you support a rebuild and that the farm system “isn’t in great shape……”

If you haven’t watched  nor paid attention since May I don’t think you have any clue on how “slow - undisciplined - lack of fire” the Team shows. If you don’t care to watch it’s your call - trying to recruit baseball fans to “join you…….for a free summer…,,,” is silly.

Organization’s future isn’t bright?

Look up the organization’s farm system rank.

You read a lot this week for not caring.

Team absolutely sucked offensively for the last 5-6 weeks - no doubt. Not going to quit following the club because of your negative spin………my assumption is since you don’t care about the Club and are freed up, you won’t care about what I post here either.

38 minutes ago, Puckett34 said:

Last nights result notwithstanding, I chalk the last ~6 weeks up to 3 things.  

 

1) Injuries derailed this season.  Buxton, Correa, Ryan, Topa, Stewart, Miranda, the list goes on.  Leaning on fellas with little to no MLB experience was a recipe for disaster.

 

2) Inexperience the aforementioned  #1.  Especially the pitchers not equipped/conditioned to play 162 games.

 

3) Lack of depth. I don't blame Rocco for this collapse for the most part.  Head scratching moves for sure.  But he really only had what 2 reliable starting pitchers in Ober and Lopez the whole season and 3.5 reliable relievers all season in Duran, Jax and Sands.  Sometimes Alcala.  Anyway, Rocco needs to play the players that are available to him on any given day. 

 

This is likely giving him (Rocco) too much of a pass, but I believe that baseball managers get too much credit in success and far too much blame in failure.  These players know how to play and they know the fundamentals that some love to preach that Rocco needs to teach more of.  At some point these players need to execute and be professional.  They will learn and be better for it next year.

 

They just ran out of gas and Detroit got white hot at the right time.

 

At least the Vikings and Timberwolves exist.  

I don’t blame Baldelli…….. He did have Ryan into August though, and to that point he may have given them the best overall performance as a starter. Relief core has lost games but that happens all over baseball. 

Twins were 17 games over .500 and could have coasted to the #2 Wildcard by finishing 2 games under .500 from there. COMPLETELY lost their offensive punch!

Last night:

I get people being on Santana a bit for getting doubled off but when Jeffers can’t get the ball on the ground but it’s a force at 3B and the bunt was going to the right side. Jeffers - popped out with no outs and bases loaded - popped out on sacrifice bunt attempt - dropped throw that was chest high for a force out at the plate. He was rough!!! Threw well to 2B to be fair but he butchered up some BIG opportunities/plays!!!

3 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Not going to quit following the club because of your negative spin………my assumption is since you don’t care about the Club and are freed up, you won’t care about what I post here either.

Just so it's clear, I'm not trying to persuade anyone. I popped back on, added my two cents, expressed my regrets to other fans. It wouldn't sting if I didn't care, and even just watching Gameday last night stung. Sorry my post inflamed - wasn't the intent.

I get a kick out the wagon-circling, though. I wish this team could reward your loyalty. I wish the Pohlads had tried to build on last year, when disgruntled skeptics like me had to at least consider the possibility that curses could be broken and that championships could be won.

My father taught me to be loyal to my country, my faith and my family. But a ballclub run by a billionaire family? I can probably cut my losses. For those of you who don't, good for you. Make that choice. 

17 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

While the MLB farm system power ranking might be a consolation, I tend to think they're overrating the Twins top end of the system. Compare their ranking to Fangraphs. Fangraphs is trying to do what we all do, looking for the players that can become true stars, because ultimately, no one cares about graduating an Austin Martin, a AAAA player. 

https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/farm-system-rankings/2024-in-season-prospect-list

Walker Jenkins is truly exciting. Emmanuel Rodriguez looks like he could be a pretty darn good player, but a star? Time will tell. David Festa, while no longer a prospect, does look like a legitimate pitcher for years to come. Keaschall and others look intriguing, but the height of the system is really dictated by Walker. If he becomes a bust, like so many do, this is a pretty run of the mill farm system. 

Some schmuck on Bleacher Report shouldn't be listened to too much, but he just ranked them 22nd. If it were truly a great farm system, no one would be placing them that low.  

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10136313-final-mlb-farm-system-rankings-of-the-2024-season

 

 

Same comments and specifics for success can be applied across MiLB. Nothing new in these comments. I’m much more concerned about the ability to cultivate pitchers - behind the 3 Rookies currently being used. there are reasons to think they have 6 more guys that should be ready by ‘26. Even if just 2 of them hit, I’ll take that as a success.

Matthews - SWR have OK stuff. - need to gain experience and guile - SWR is ahead between the ears, he’s 23. Matthews has enough stuff - probably needs another well executed pitch, same as Festa. Slider - Fastball need some more complimentary help.

17 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Truth

He battles - he seems to have gained confidence and mental strength as the year has progressed. The confidence makes him appear stronger physically. He has some holes but most guys do - gotta work around his issues. He’s got 4th OF and emergency IF spot in his future, somewhere - maybe at Target!

25 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Losing out to the Red Sox in 1967 was also a tough one.

Wasn’t paying attention in ‘84 and was only 5 in ‘67 ………older brother was 19 & he filled me in on that torture.

This year is no piece of cake for the fans!

If Atlanta takes out the Royals first game & if Sox keep their winning streak rolling, Baltimore might punt on last 2 games? Tigers aren’t losing 3! Royals have at least 30% chance to lose 3 in Atlanta - Braves are scratching for each win! Weather in ATL seems to be good going forward.

Twins chances to win 3??? Correa better be ready to run out grounders………

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Injuries happen in MLB. The Twins were basically middle of the pack in games lost to injuries by their starting players. The biggest problem wasn't leaning on rookies, it was leaning on bad veteran players (Santana, Margot, Farmer, Okert) and not making any adjustments to the roster when it was clear changes needed to be made. This team refused to adjust from their plan in March even when it was clearly not working.

I don't know what the minor league development plan is for the rookies to learn how to play baseball but there are issues with fundamentals and baseball IQ that are not being addressed in the minor leagues. Some of that is developing players to play at one position in the minors, then promoting them to play a completely different position in the major leagues. That doesn't explain problems with baserunning or situational hitting. They have been able to improve the talent of their minor league pitchers, but the position player development seems to be "teach them to hit for power, they'll figure the rest out in the majors".

I get everyone putting there own “accurate” spin on what the issues for not getting things done. My thoughts from different view.

Margot has made a bunch of unexpected plays and gotten key hits in a number of games. His performance v. LH pitching is at or above what Team expected. He wasn’t great but they knew they didn’t sign a star - they signed a depth guy that, due to other’s injuries or zero performance, had to bat v. RH pitching more than was desired or expected……….. Nobody expected Wallner to get sent down - Castro having to play infield all the time due to Julien’s poor performance & CC being out as well as Lewis being out. Kirilloff also disappeared and Larnach was hurt early.

Santana has been great glove at 1B & leads Team in HR & RBI. He was signed as  depth guy and then Kirilloff disappeared in the batter’s box. Gotta play him.

Okert was consistently not consistent, brutal over all - no doubt.

Farmer was laughable , in a sad way, to mid June - then hurt & on IL. He played 2B more than he should have because Julien sucked - Lee was hurt early - Castro or he had to play 3B due to Lewis lack of availability……. He’s 4th-5th in Slug. % in AL in September.?

IMO - Julien - Kirilloff - Jeffers - Miranda ………all guys that at one point were key to the line-up, all disappeared last 6 weeks or earlier. Lee has an OPS in mid .500’s - brutal for our previous Top Prospect. All have had some highlights here and there but when crunch time arrived in August - they weren’t contributing at all.

4 minutes ago, Linus said:

That whole play was a living breathing example of poor fundamentals. First off Jeffers jabbed at the ball with the bat when anybody that has played baseball has been taught that a proper bunt is almost catching the ball on the bat. This makes it easier to deaden the ball and control the direction. Secondly he bunted it to the wrong side. With a man on second you want the third baseman to field that bunt. What the hell Santana was doing I don’t know. The ball popped so high in the air it was obviously going to be caught. Everyone makes mistakes but the Twins make fundamental mistakes nearly every game. It hasn’t improved and because it happens repeatedly I can only assume it’s not a priority with the coaching staff. I bet the Twins have lost 6-8 games this year due to this. 

Completely agree 100% - why do we think nobody has been critical of Martin not scoring on a ball that was hit hard but took 3 hops in the grass to the RF? I thought that was the end of the game.

5 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

If the Twins bring back Rocco next year I can't imagine how empty Target field will be. The Owner/FO has to do something to show the fans the end of the year was unacceptable if they want the fans to buy into the team next year. They can't bring back the same coach and players and say trust us things will be different this year. Swapping out a hitting or pitching coach isn't going to be enough.

It is almost like people forgot how horse crap this team was in 21 and 22 and after this year, somebody's head has to roll.

Maybe they should trade Jeffers - Julien - Martin ………. free up Kepler - Santana - Margot - Farmer………that would be a fresh start that may have a serious effect in the Clubhouse.

Don't promote trading Jeffers but am pissed off at his offense since early July & after dropping ball last night & popping out in his last 2 AB’s, 2nd time while bunting, I’m kind of fed up.

If the Team wins you or I could be the Manager. Lewis is an OK player last 2 months - Lee is a major disappointment at the plate. If these guys get it together they’ll succeed with or without Rocco at the helm.

3rd base coach & hitting coach seem to be appropriate staff moves IMO.

Ober - Ryan - Lopez - 3 Rookies - Paddack should be deep enough for Spring Training staff………..I’d highly promote moving Paddack to Pen to join Varland ……..those two with Topa and we’re off to a much better start in ‘25…..,………I think Maki does a decent job - guys are developing new pitches - very high in MLB on staff strikeouts.