Glen Quagmire: The Closer Conundrum

What's wrong with having dual closers? Giving Perk some help by having Jepsen take save opportunities sounds prudent given Perk's recent 2nd half collapses.

Could the Twins have multiple closers? Of course--but that isn't part of the Twins' way.  For many years the Twins have operated with a defined closer, 8th inning guy, 7th inning guy, LOOGY, long-man, etc.  Will they change that philosophy?  I doubt it.  They are more likely to simply reassign personnel in each role that to craft a new bullpen philosophy.

Question marks.  As far as I'm concerned signing veteran free-agent relief-pitchers doesn't eliminate question marks--they simply make it easier to identify the guilty parties for failure.  The Twins have many candidates for the bullpen (plenty of TD threads on that!) it's time to start using them.  The 83-win season eliminated the losing streak and the pressure to stop the bleeding.  Now is the window to complete the development and transformation of the Active Roster to one of a consistent winner--and that requires some risk-taking. Continue the internal promotions to build the consistent winner.

Yes. I would also hope for a more creative use of a bullpen.

I had to go read LaVelle's article. I certainly did not consider Perkins to be whining. He was, however, articulating his frustration with honesty. I would be amazed if Molitor thought he was whining

Amazed.

Yes. I would also hope for a more creative use of a bullpen.
I had to go read LaVelle's article. I certainly did not consider Perkins to be whining. He was, however, articulating his frustration with honesty. I would be amazed if Molitor thought he was whining
Amazed.

Honesty and Twins PR?  Oil meet water.

As upset as I initially was with May's move to the 'pen, I've started to come around a little bit. Now if the Twins can be flexible with how they use Perkins, Jepsen and May, I might be sold. I realize that's a big 'if,' though...

He broke down the last two years, and is 33. Do I see a trend here? Aside from that, there appears only two ways this will work. He is either the closer, or injured. He doesn't seem the type to quietly accept a "demotion" to the 7th or 8th inning guy. Plus he always has seemed to struggle in non close situations, even when he is at his best. It's almost like he loses motivation or concentration? His history is not to go quietly into the night?

Could the Twins have multiple closers? Of course--but that isn't part of the Twins' way.  For many years the Twins have operated with a defined closer, 8th inning guy, 7th inning guy, LOOGY, long-man, etc.  Will they change that philosophy?  I doubt it.  They are more likely to simply reassign personnel in each role that to craft a new bullpen philosophy.

 

 

Well, to be fair, that's the way most teams operate, if they have a guy who is a dependable closer - the ones that "close by committee" tend to do so because they don't have any one guy who they can count on.

With that said, having two guys who are capable might affect your evaluation of whether Perkins or Jepsen is "available" on a particular day.  What you need to take full advantage of having two guys capable of closing is at least two guys capable of pitching the eighth inning.  

Here's the thing, though - - having two guys capable of closing, do you now become reluctant to pitch both of them in the same game, similar to the "pinch hitting with your second catcher" thing Gardy was loathe to do?   Think about it - if the goal is to spread out the work, then the preferred practice would be to avoid pitching them both in the same game because doing so means it's been "the same number of days since they pitched" for both of them until you spread them out again.   Sure, you can ignore that for a couple of days in important games, but at some point in time, that thought starts lighting up like a neon sign . . . . 

Maybe you let matchups determine it - if both are available, who's coming up in the 9th for the other side & which guy has a better record against those guys? 

How is that whining? He is stating a fact. People are not computers, they like routine, they crave routine, they crave certainty. He was not comfortable with how things went, that's merely reporting how he felt, not whining.

Closers and to a lesser extent LOOGYs are the only relievers that get a routine.

Think about Trevor May and what his role will be out of the bullpen. He's going to have to start the 7th sometimes, or come in to face a big right-handed hitter, or come in during the middle of an inning to put out a fire. He might even get a spot start or two. In other words, he's got to be ready to pitch whenever.

Hearing Perk say that he was uncomfortable outside of his normal role when he pitched himself out of it... yeah, it comes off a little whiny.

It's 2016, can we get rid of the traditional closer role?

Jensen and Perkins own the 8th and 9th innings. Try to match them up to give us the best chance to win

Bill James has been writing about this since the late 80's. 

Evidence shows that the only thing that has changed with the closer role is the amount of money paid to the "closers". The amount of blown leads has remained about constant. 

James showed that it is a better idea to use your best reliever in a 7th or 8th inning tie than a 9th inning game where you are up two or three runs.  Also, they should be able to pitch more than one inning.

Saving your closer for the 9th also takes away the righty-righty and lefty-lefty matchups away from your best reliever.  They get whoever happens to be coming up in the 9th.  What happens if you have 2-3 righties in the 9th and 2-3 lefties in the 8th?

Relief pitchers are some of the most rigid and fragile employees in the world is what I've learned from the last few days.

 

I understand having a role helps you prepare, but these roles aren't all that radically different.  It'd be nice to start breaking this mentality in the minors so that a bullpen can be maximized to the fullest.

I completely agree. 

But teams have long overpaid "closers" and underpaid the set up guys with similar numbers.   As well as incented this behavior further by tying bonuses to "saves" and "games ended"

On Glen's last contract, he received a 100k bonus for this 40th, 45th, and 50th game that he finished (each).  Then had 150k kickers at 55 and 60.  And his base salary the next year went up by half of the bonuses he earned in 2013.  So a guy like that has every reason to keep a grip on the closer role.

http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_24072466/minnesota-twins-glen-perkins-keeps-adding-bonuses

I am scared about real regression from Jepsen this year, not Perkins.

That said, assume Jepsen is good again. This doesn't have to be a "dual closer" situation at all, but it could just mean spelling Perkins once a month, even. I think Perkins through 32 innings through June last year. How many innings were thrown in 3-run leads OR in blowouts just to "get work in" I wonder? Eliminate those and I bet he has 25/25 innings for the first half and second half.

I think the easy answer is to cut back on the "cheap" saves:

"He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning."

I don't have the stats in front of me, but it seemed like Perkins had more than a few of those.

Jepsen was pretty good picking up the slack at the end of last year and I'm not worried about any regression.  Let him take on the extra load.

I look at Perkins, May, Jepsen and :Fien and am pretty happy with the top 4 in the pen.   Stands to reason that the next 4 will not be quite as good but that doesn't mean putting in any of Meyer, Nolasco, Acter, Tomkin, Berrios, etc. is like putting it on a tee.    They, along with the starters, just need to get it to the 7th inning with a chance to win.   With the addition of May and Jepsen this will probably be the best bullpen the Twins have had since 2010.   Not saying it wouldn't be nice to have another shut down guy but the bottom spots filled by Nolasco and apprentices is not soo out of the ordinary.     No player becomes a proven player without first being an unproven rookie.

Looking at the leverage index from last years relievers the first two were pretty obvious; Perkins and Jepsen who are good though not great. The next two were Boyer and Thompson. That is unacceptable. One will be replaced by May which will be fine but who picks up those lefty innings? What happens when Perkins wears down or Jepsen returns to his pumpkin ways or May is needed in the rotation? At this point this bullpen is neither strong nor deep. There really needed to be another acquisition this winter.