Jason Bartlett

[tobi0040]

One of the reasons the A's and Rays win is that they value EVERY single player on the roster. They don't carry negative WAR players, in general. The secret to the As last year is that no one is really bad, and a few players are quite good. If the 24th and 25th spots don't matter at all, just hire Bonnes and Stohs to play out there. But then, no one would do that, so clearly they do matter.

 

 

This logic assumes Bartlett over Presley or Parmelee is costing us wins. They all have the same career OPS. If Bartlett gets reps over Pedro you lose a little on defense and gain on offense. Can Bartlett not play LF or 1B? And we are talking about very little difference if any, over 100 AB's.

[MileHighTwinsFan]

People are getting this upset about the 25th roster spot. So who else do/did we have out there to be a super utility guy, who will be the cornerstone of the team's resurgence?

 

Presley, Bernier, Mastrionani? Not sure any are significant improvements.

 

Bartlett is a low risk move to have a versatile veteran presence on the roster. If he doesn't work out - then they send him away at little or no cost.

 

It's a 162 game season, let's see how it plays out.

[Mike Sixel]

Feel free to write off ABs and fielding all you want, because "it doesn't matter much". I'm saying that the As and Rays (and I) don't agree. No AB or inning in the field should be given away.

 

As for Bartlett over Presley, I don't see how anyone can argue a 34 year old who has never played any position other than SS in his career, who was effectively out of baseball for the last 2 years, is likely to be as effective in the field as Presley. Who is your defensive sub in the 8th/9th innings for Willingham/Arcia now, on the off chance they have a lead? Bartlett?

[tobi0040]

Feel free to write off ABs and fielding all you want, because "it doesn't matter much". I'm saying that the As and Rays (and I) don't agree. No AB or inning in the field should be given away.

 

As for Bartlett over Presley, I don't see how anyone can argue a 34 year old who has never played any position other than SS in his career, who was effectively out of baseball for the last 2 years, is likely to be as effective in the field as Presley. Who is your defensive sub in the 8th/9th innings for Willingham/Arcia now, on the off chance they have a lead? Bartlett?

 

Nobody is writing off AB's as much as seeing no real difference in the choices. Bartlett's OPS is basically the same as our choices.

 

The Rays had Matt Joyce (.747 OPS), David Dejesus (.741 OPS), and Sean Rodriguez (.704 OPS) on their bench. Their backup catcher had an OPS of .714 as well. I don't think it is a philosophical difference between the teams or the fans for that matter, they have better options because they have better players.

[cmathewson]

Whomever didn't make the team would be gone. Bartlett had an opt-out clause and was reportedly ready to use it if needed. Presley was out of options. So it came down to who is better. The field staff determined that Bartlett is better than Presley, and more versatile, and a better guy in the clubhouse. So they chose Bartlett. It's as simple as that. Any attempt to read a grand conspiracy into it is over thinking it.

[Mike Sixel]

As long as they are somehow held accountable if they are wrong, or rewarded if they are right, great......

[Willihammer]

I think the Twins should take a page out of the Earl Weaver playbook. Bat Bartlett 2nd on road games, so he hits in the top of the 1st. Then take him out of the game, sub in Florimon for the bottom of the 1st.

[S.]

Speaking of not being held accountable, apparently the twins current situation is all Bill Smith's fault and you're a moron if you disagree with the way that ownership has handled things. Someone might want to tell Reusse that calling fans morons for their beliefs isn't a great plan...

 

http://m.startribune.com/?id=252566001

[tobi0040]

Speaking of not being held accountable, apparently the twins current situation is all Bill Smith's fault and you're a moron if you disagree with the way that ownership has handled things. Someone might want to tell Reusse that calling fans morons for their beliefs isn't a great plan...

 

http://m.startribune.com/?id=252566001

 

If you buy that they were willing to spend and Terry did not spend, I am not sure how Bill Smith gets 100% of the blame. Wouldn't TR share some of that blame?

 

I don't think ownership was as willing to spend as they lead on.

[JB_Iowa]

It's not a grand conspiracy .... it is an attempt to recover the past. I think Gardenhire genuinely misses the likes of Cuddyer and Punto and pre-July 2011 Morneau.

 

I'm just not convinced that you can try to recreate that by bringing guys back. I think it is something that could develop from a group of prospects brought up at the same time. Alternatively, I think that new leadership from outside the organization might do it. In that sense, Bartlett is certainly better than Kubel, not just on personality but on time removed from the organization.

 

But overall, the Twins need to embrace the future not the past.

[S.]

I don't think ownership was as willing to spend as they lead on.

Then there's this beaut:

There are more problems ahead for the Twins in 2014. The Pohalds aren’t among them. They are good citizens, determined to keep their ballpark magnificent, willing to fund a return to winning when the homegrown talent dictates, and not gougers of the public.

A return to winning? Apparently spending some money to even try to be an above .500 team isn't worth it until all of your homegrown talent magically pans out? This article is drivel and Reusse should be embarrassed to be writing a PR puff piece like this.

[tobi0040]

Then there's this beaut:

 

A return to winning? Apparently spending some money to be an above .500 team isn't worth it until all of your homegrown talent magically pans out? This article is drivel and Reusse should be embarrassed to be writing a PR puff piece like this.

 

That is a PR piece and nothing more.

[S.]

I'm just sick of these so called news stories and columns that may as well have been written by ownership themselves. I'm going way off topic of Bartlett again though, so I should probably just shut up or start another thread though.

[cmathewson]

As long as they are somehow held accountable if they are wrong, or rewarded if they are right, great......

 

Gardy will get fired if they don't have a winning record this year. That's accountability.

[JB_Iowa]

Gardy will get fired if they don't have a winning record this year. That's accountability.

 

I have a gut feeling that this 2-year contract will be his last, one way or another. I was struck by something in an article a few days ago (and now I can't find it back) in which he implied (or at least at first read, implied) that he would not be managing when the bulk of the prospects arrived.

 

I don't know if that means he'll be fired without a winning record this season or if this is just some type of plan in place for his retirement.

[savvyspy]

Whomever didn't make the team would be gone. Bartlett had an opt-out clause and was reportedly ready to use it if needed. Presley was out of options. So it came down to who is better. The field staff determined that Bartlett is better than Presley, and more versatile, and a better guy in the clubhouse. So they chose Bartlett. It's as simple as that. Any attempt to read a grand conspiracy into it is over thinking it.

I think that is why some people are upset. There is not any measure by which Bartlett is better than Presley. Offensively Presley is statistically superior. Defensively Presley IS an outfielder and Bartlett is NOT ever been an outfielder. Bartlett didn't earn the promotion based on spring training. He was the worse player in camp and it wasn't close. Presley is younger and has more upside. Grand conspiracy is probably best case senario for the field staff. If not this is the most ridiculous decision this team has made in recent years.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm not going to pile on the front office for choosing the "wrong" 25th man because, frankly, I don't really care. It's so far down the list of issues on this squad that complaining about it seems a lot like arranging deck chairs on a certain steamship from a century ago.

 

Bartlett isn't the problem. The thought process that chose Bartlett might not even be the problem (though I'd hear it out)... The problem is that this offense is so bad that we care about Jason Bartlett.

 

A roving 25th man who can play the field, pinch run, and maybe shake off the rust and hit a little isn't a big deal. The big deal is that about 20 players in front of him are really bad at hitting baseballs.

[S.]

The problem is that this offense is terrible and is so bad that we care about Jason Bartlett.

 

A roving 25th man who can play the field, pinch run, and maybe shake off the rust and hit a little isn't a big deal. The big deal is that about 20 players in front of him are really bad at hitting baseballs.

Well said. The same could be said for a lot of the things we're all complaining about now and the last few years. Lord knows a team like this brings out the anger in a lot of us, and I'm certainly no exception to that.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Gardy will get fired if they don't have a winning record this year. That's accountability.

 

Winning record? You mean .500? That seems unlikely (both the record, and the idea that Gardy would be fired for achieving anything less).

 

If they repeat 96 losses this year, or worse, history suggests Gardy may have to (and/or want to) finally step aside. It is still hard to imagine them firing him.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if both he and the front office want 2015 to be a successful send-off year like TK's 2001.

[Mike Sixel]

Since this thread is about Bartlett, I'm trying not to mention the bigger problems in this thread. If Brock wants me to, I can.....

[Brock Beauchamp]

Since this thread is about Bartlett, I'm trying not to mention the bigger problems in this thread. If Brock wants me to, I can.....

 

Heh, no. I'm simply pointing out that I believe much of the much of the anger being displayed here is bit misguided... Bartlett isn't the issue. Nearly everyone in front of him is the problem.

 

As a 25th man, he's not the worst option in the world IF he can shake off the rust and hit a little.

 

But the guy should have a leash that is about an inch long. If he starts off 1-20, he needs to go. Immediately.

[Mike Sixel]

Heh, no. I'm simply pointing out that I believe much of the much of the anger being displayed here is bit misguided... Bartlett isn't the issue. Nearly everyone in front of him is the problem.

 

As a 25th man, he's not the worst option in the world IF he can shake off the rust and hit a little.

 

But the guy should have a leash that is about an inch long. If he starts off 1-20, he needs to go. Immediately.

 

 

the let's hope that leash is until June or July.....for 20 ABs.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Winning record? You mean .500? That seems unlikely (both the record, and the idea that Gardy would be fired for achieving anything less).

 

If they repeat 96 losses this year, or worse, history suggests Gardy may have to (and/or want to) finally step aside. It is still hard to imagine them firing him.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if both he and the front office want 2015 to be a successful send-off year like TK's 2001.

 

Agree with the last sentence and what JB & CMATH said above.

*Somewhat off topic

 

It really would be great if the Twins could somehow play .500 this year with this bunch of old geezers and Gardy realizes all things must indeed pass, he announces he'll step aside ala TK after 2001, and that way we can give him the nice tribute he deserves sometime in September. It wouldn't be a TK level ceremony we saw in Sept. 2012 but it could be something meaningful.

[cmathewson]

Winning record? You mean .500? That seems unlikely (both the record, and the idea that Gardy would be fired for achieving anything less).

 

If they repeat 96 losses this year, or worse, history suggests Gardy may have to (and/or want to) finally step aside. It is still hard to imagine them firing him.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if both he and the front office want 2015 to be a successful send-off year like TK's 2001.

 

Well that might be a stretch. But it was taken from something Ryan said when he resigned him. The gist, he wanted to give him another shot at getting back to winning. Maybe he has two years to do it. But he is being held accountable.

[twinsnorth49]

Moderators note

While some side discussion on personnel decisions is relevant to this thread, let's not turn it into another referendum on FO spending, every other player they should have signed in the offseason and who's fault everything is.

 

Let's keep things mainly about Bartlett being on the 25 man and what that means for the Twins this season. This are veering a little too far off course.

 

Thanks

[Major League Ready]

Whomever didn't make the team would be gone. Bartlett had an opt-out clause and was reportedly ready to use it if needed. Presley was out of options. So it came down to who is better. The field staff determined that Bartlett is better than Presley, and more versatile, and a better guy in the clubhouse. So they chose Bartlett. It's as simple as that. Any attempt to read a grand conspiracy into it is over thinking it.

 

I agree there was no conspiracy but I think more went into the decision. My guess is that it was more about retaining two Ifs and two OFs instead of 3 OFs, one of which (CP) also would be Mauer’s back-up. It was also probable that the real comparison was Collabello vs Presley. Collabello has looked like their best hitter this spring and provides some much needed pop off the bench and he has looked better than Mauer at first.

 

Then you also have the aspect of managing assets. The only out of options player they lost was Presley. They still have Parmelee as plan B. They also have Mastro if Hicks gets hurt. If Kubel fails, waive him and bring on Parm. A case could be made this particular scenario simply left more future options available.

 

Then they probably looked at specific game scenarios. Pinch running is not a big deal because Escobar can be the first off the bench. If he is playing, we probably have either Florimon or Dozier available. If all else fails, Bartlett is decent on the bases. This bench collectively offers more versatility and more offensive potential. Presley is going to see very little time in center as long as Hicks is healthy. Mastro comes up if Hicks gets hurt. Presley’s only value as a corner outfielder is a late inning defensive replacement.

 

It also could set-up nicely for acquiring Drew as a plan B if he is not signed until after the point at which the draft pick compensation goes away. If Bartlett fails, you simply waive him. If he succeeds, you could bring on a Drew/Bartlett platoon and trade Florimon. That tandem stays in place until Santana’s future is determined.

[Jerr]

It's not a grand conspiracy .... it is an attempt to recover the past. I think Gardenhire genuinely misses the likes of Cuddyer and Punto and pre-July 2011 Morneau.

 

I'm just not convinced that you can try to recreate that by bringing guys back. I think it is something that could develop from a group of prospects brought up at the same time. Alternatively, I think that new leadership from outside the organization might do it. In that sense, Bartlett is certainly better than Kubel, not just on personality but on time removed from the organization.

 

But overall, the Twins need to embrace the future not the past.

 

That and I feel the Twins gave "scholarships" to Bartlett and Kubel. I believed the Twins when they said players had to earn their spots on the team.

And it is sad that Twins need a veteran to inspire them to "do things right" and said veteran is from the past and not doing it on the field.

Totally unexcited about this team:( and Bartlett.

[jokin]

I'm not going to disagree with you because I really don't know a whole lot about Mitchell, but the guy deserves some respect. He had a nice spring training at the plate. Everybody was Collabello this, Collabello that, but not a single person said anything about Mitchell. He hit .400, .444 OBP, 1hr, 6RBI's, which is better than a lot of players who made the cut.

 

Speaking of guys who made the cut, I'm indifferent about Bartlett and Kubel making the team. The Twins are hoping Kubel still has something left in the tank and they gave Bartlett the benefit of the doubt because he's been out of baseball for a while. Guys like Mastroianni, Parmelee, Presly, Diamond etc.. have all had plenty of opportunities to prove that they belong in the MLB level long term. Odds aren't good that they'll have career years, but I'm not going to get upset with the Twins for giving Bartlett and Kubel another opportunity. Worst case scenario is they don't work out and guys like Parmelee can always get called back up.

 

I would have been fine if they kept Presly as the 4th outfielder. It really doesn't matter a whole lot.

 

The Twins are trying to make something work without spending a lot of $.

 

Bonficaio for Bartlett

Sizemore for Kubel.

Mitchell for Clete Thomas/ie, emergency call-up CF

Parmelee cleared anyways, + Mastro in Roc.

 

Better talent overall. Much better roster OF depth than a guy who has never played the position in the ML in Bartlett. Younger. Healthier. All obtainable/retainable for the same or less $$$.

[jokin]

I agree there was no conspiracy but I think more went into the decision. My guess is that it was more about retaining two Ifs and two OFs instead of 3 OFs, one of which (CP) also would be Mauer’s back-up. It was also probable that the real comparison was Collabello vs Presley. Collabello has looked like their best hitter this spring and provides some much needed pop off the bench and he has looked better than Mauer at first.

 

Then you also have the aspect of managing assets. The only out of options player they lost was Presley. They still have Parmelee as plan B. They also have Mastro if Hicks gets hurt. If Kubel fails, waive him and bring on Parm. A case could be made this particular scenario simply left more future options available.

 

Then they probably looked at specific game scenarios. Pinch running is not a big deal because Escobar can be the first off the bench. If he is playing, we probably have either Florimon or Dozier available. If all else fails, Bartlett is decent on the bases. This bench collectively offers more versatility and more offensive potential. Presley is going to see very little time in center as long as Hicks is healthy. Mastro comes up if Hicks gets hurt. Presley’s only value as a corner outfielder is a late inning defensive replacement.

 

It also could set-up nicely for acquiring Drew as a plan B if he is not signed until after the point at which the draft pick compensation goes away. If Bartlett fails, you simply waive him. If he succeeds, you could bring on a Drew/Bartlett platoon and trade Florimon. That tandem stays in place until Santana’s future is determined.

 

A Drew/(revitalized)Bartlett platoon is a nice thought, but the Twins have absolutely no shot at signing Drew after the June date. His value goes up dramatically for every contending team, and particularly the Red Sox, who can then recoup their 1st Rd. compensation pick by signing him. (If such a scenario were ever going to happen, the Twins had to play poker and sign Drew going into ST, Drew was willing to play 3B or 2B, setting up nice platoon scenarios at those positions, waiting to see if Bartlett would pan out in supplanting Florimon).

[twinsfaninsaudi]

I think the Twins should take a page out of the Earl Weaver playbook. Bat Bartlett 2nd on road games, so he hits in the top of the 1st. Then take him out of the game, sub in Florimon for the bottom of the 1st.

 

Whoa whoa whoa. I think you're onto something.