Berardino: Gardy's Comments on Attitude

[Willihammer]

With a 1-1 count in the fifth inning, Liberatore buzzed Arcia with two straight fastballs that spun the young lefty slugger off the plate. Arcia swung as hard as he could at the 3-1 pitch but fouled it off.

Next pitch: Right-field bullpen.

 

 

Love that.

 

I hope Hammer teaches Arcia the fine art of taking one off your front tricep. Seems like he'll get plenty of opportunities.

[Dman]

uh, Micheal Jordan "talked trash". So did many other of the great players.

 

Sure but did you admire him for that? Is the trash talk what made him better than his peers? Because that is the correlation so many on here want to make. He had drive he had talent a rare talent at that. But he could have been humble about it and been looked at in a better light than he is. His talent wouldn't have changed he would just be a better human being.

[Hugh Morris]

Garza, Lohse, Hardy and Gomez?

 

Garza: Dealt from a position of perceived strength for a very highly touted prospect with attitude of his own

 

Loshe: took a baseball bat to his manager's door. If you don't think that earns you a ticket out, you and I will need to agree to disagree because I'm not changing my mind on the acceptability of that action.

 

Gomez: I've heard there were coachability questions regarding understanding signs and fundamentals (loose canons), but was another position of strength deal to shore up other areas. The balance between having attitude and accepting coaching can be discussed, I suppose. Doubt he was run out due to being "fiery" though.

 

Hardy: has there been any indication he was moved due to having an attitude? If so, I missed it.

[Marta Shearing]

My favorite Twins team is the 2001-02 team that had AJ, Doug, Ortiz, Hunter, Guardado, Romero, Hawkins. This is half the reason why the news on Sano is so disappointing. I was hoping to see him incite a few riots this season after a slow homerun trot.

I'll take the '87 group over this group any day of the week and twice on Tuesday. Gladden, Puckett, Brunansky, Bush, Gaetti, Hrbek, Viola, Blyleven, Berenguer, Reardon. They had attitude, but they actually backed it up with WINNING.

[Marta Shearing]

The problem is then why poor over stats? Why give stats such importance when it is leadership that matters so much. Stop talking about WAR, OPS etc because if they don;t have passion they just aren't worth it. I don't think you can have it both ways. As long as someone isn't disruptive to the club house how much influence do they have? Games come down to performance. Stats define performance and that is why players are measured by them and not their leadership qualities.

Say you have two teams with identical talent. One team hates losing. The other team could care less if they win or lose. I have no doubt in my mind the team that hates to lose will win more games. It's troubling that the game has turned into people crunching formula's and numbers on their laptop. I'm with Gus and Mickey on this one. I'm glad Philip got fired.

[Dman]

Say you have two teams with identical talent. One team hates losing. The other team could care less if they win or lose. I have no doubt in my mind the team that hates to lose will win more games. It's troubling that the game has turned into people crunching formula's and numbers on their laptop. I'm with Gus and Mickey on this one. I'm glad Philip got fired.

 

Yeah but here's the rub. Nobody likes to lose and they aren't going to just lay down. Regardless of your perception it just doesn't happen. Also if players fail to perform they will lose their jobs and they don't want that to happen and that is why they practice every day and even over the off season to get better. Those that do not are likely to be gone.

 

Now the fact that said players might not be as good as other teams seems a more likely scenario and I think if you look at the stats you will see that. I can't think of a time I stepped onto a field ready to lose or not caring about winning the game. You play games to win. Whether you have the talent to so that is another story. If the two teams are as equal as you say they should come close to 50\50 split.

 

Show me a player or team that likes to lose and I will accept your premise but I don;t think it exists.

[Willihammer]

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images//visual/whatshot/gardy-hicks2.gif

[Willihammer]

http://www.fangraphs.com/not/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Gardy1.gif

[Willihammer]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18cllw42t9tejgif/ku-medium.gif

[Willihammer]

A lot of culture flows from the top down. If the players are lethargic, that's a failing of management too.

[notoriousgod71]

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images//visual/whatshot/gardy-hicks2.gif

 

This is Gardy's reaction to Hicks flipping the ball into the infield! Notice the score and notice that no one is on base so this type of over-reaction to a player playing with supposed "flair" is ridiculous.

 

I also remember Gardy freaking out about Hermann not having his batting gloves on when he called on him to pinch hit. Hermann hit the game winning single but all Gardy could talk about was him not being ready. Clearly he was ready. He won the game.

[notoriousgod71]

I guess I don't completely understand what you mean. A home run show boated is worth more than one that is not? Or excellence is only acknowledged when show boating? I am not sure I follow.

 

External emotion and fire is a lot more likely to be contagious than someone who internalizes it. The thing I have noticed is someone who is a lightning rod (such as Sano, AJ, etc) forces his teammates to raise their intensity and a close knit team will band together and have each other's back.

 

You don't need to be an ******* but I don't think it's a bad thing either.

[notoriousgod71]

Yeah but here's the rub. Nobody likes to lose and they aren't going to just lay down. Regardless of your perception it just doesn't happen. Also if players fail to perform they will lose their jobs and they don't want that to happen and that is why they practice every day and even over the off season to get better. Those that do not are likely to be gone.

 

Now the fact that said players might not be as good as other teams seems a more likely scenario and I think if you look at the stats you will see that. I can't think of a time I stepped onto a field ready to lose or not caring about winning the game. You play games to win. Whether you have the talent to so that is another story. If the two teams are as equal as you say they should come close to 50\50 split.

 

Show me a player or team that likes to lose and I will accept your premise but I don;t think it exists.

 

No one likes to lose, but some people continue on with their lives if they do while it eats away at others and forces them to do something differently to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[ashbury]

It's troubling that the game has turned into people crunching formula's and numbers on their laptop.

 

I'm with you until this sentence. If the attitude turns into wins, it'll show up somewhere in the numbers.

 

Pete Rose got his nickname Charlie Hustle derisively to start with; players recognize that some kinds of attitude are helpful while others are just rah-rah, and the jury was out on Rose until the results started rolling in.

[Boom Boom]

Gardy knows the Twins clubhouse has a reputation for having a damp dog personality. He's trying to sell to us the idea that it doesn't come from him. Some of the trades the Twins have made seem to indicate otherwise.

 

The Hicks thing... Gardy overreacted. It was a lazy play. If Hicks had held on to the ball for a couple seconds and then flipped it, it's a non-issue.

[Guest USAFChief]

The problem is then why poor over stats? Why give stats such importance when it is leadership that matters so much. Stop talking about WAR, OPS etc because if they don;t have passion they just aren't worth it. I don't think you can have it both ways. As long as someone isn't disruptive to the club house how much influence do they have? Games come down to performance. Stats define performance and that is why players are measured by them and not their leadership qualities.

My belief is that at the end of the year, stats will reflect leadership or lack thereof. A team with effective leadership will have better stats, over time, than an identical team with ineffective leadership. Just like a Girl Scout troop that is well led and well motivated will sell more cookies than one the same size that isnt well led.

[Dman]

No one likes to lose, but some people continue on with their lives if they do while it eats away at others and forces them to do something differently to make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

I agree with you on that but there isn't much room for a cavalier attitude for a professional sports star because they will be out of a job. I just don't understand the large difference between your two attitudes here. Everyone at this level is constantly trying to get better or they are out of a job. I don't know how much more motivation there is than that. You play well or you are done, there is no tomorrow. I don't see guys not giving 100% all the time unless they are injured. They might not be as good as other players but I don't believe it is because they are too lazy or don't have competitive fire. They wouldn't have made it to the bigs without being highly competitive, self motivated and talented. That is the standard that it takes to get to MLB. It takes just as much if not more to stay there.

[ashbury]

Just like a Girl Scout troop that is well led and well motivated will sell more cookies than one the same size that isnt well led.

 

Other teams' pitchers will give our guys cookies down the middle if we get more cuties¹ like Dozier?

 

¹ I am going strictly by the advice I have been given by those in the know.

[Dman]

My belief is that at the end of the year, stats will reflect leadership or lack thereof. A team with effective leadership will have better stats, over time, than an identical team with ineffective leadership. Just like a Girl Scout troop that is well led and well motivated will sell more cookies than one the same size that isnt well led.

 

That sounds great as there certainly is some truth to that, but how much leadership is needed for self motivated, highly competitive, and talented athletes? Who know their jobs inside and out and have played this same game most of there lives. Who have position coaches and hitting coaches and structure just like your Girl Scouts. All teams have these things and all the players know the rules how to play their positions and the game. How much more leadership do they need and what kind of leadership is needed?

 

There is a point where either you perform as a player or you do not. Does the twins coaching staff get to take credit for Joe Mauers swing and his talent or do they take the blame for Pedro Florimons swing and lack of batting prowess? They come from the same organization with the same coaching and leadership. So tell me who is to blame? The player or the organization?

[Guest USAFChief]

¹ I am going strictly by the advice I have been given by those in the know.

I had a response all cued up, too, and once again was beaten to the punch.

[JB_Iowa]

I have that things like leadership matter .... and things like personality ... and things like ground conditions .... and weather ... and crowd support .... and a myriad of other factors.

 

Because if I didn't think that, I'd just watch a videogame.

[howieramone1406390264]

My belief is that at the end of the year, stats will reflect leadership or lack thereof. A team with effective leadership will have better stats, over time, than an identical team with ineffective leadership. Just like a Girl Scout troop that is well led and well motivated will sell more cookies than one the same size that isnt well led.

 

Playing baseball and selling cookies are not the same thing.

[Mike Sixel]

Metaphor

[howieramone1406390264]

Metaphor

 

Truism

[ashbury]

Metaphor

 

Never metaphor I didn't like.

[lightfoot789]

On that note of who determines the "Line" for attitude. I was wondering - What is the average time frame for making it around the bases after a home run? 17 seconds - 20 seconds -23 seconds - 26 seconds?

What is acceptable?

*To watch at the plate and jog fast afterwards

*To take a slow trot while viewing and admiring

*To quick trot it around as to get to the next batter

*To act like you've done it before and "no big thing it"

*Do you smile but not too much

*Do you show any emotion

*Do you Ricky Henderson twirl at the plate

Is there an unwritten line that is to be observed after a HR?

[Mike Sixel]

Silly unwritten rules, imo. Jog around. Smiling and being happy should not make the other team mad. Not sure why it does, frankly. How, exactly, is it disrespectful to flip your bat? What actual harm is done?

[Dman]

I have that things like leadership matter .... and things like personality ... and things like ground conditions .... and weather ... and crowd support .... and a myriad of other factors.

 

Because if I didn't think that, I'd just watch a videogame.

 

I am probably being a bit harsh as those things certainly have some influence but I think it is minor compared to talent and ability. It isn't completely sanitary or a perfect science as has been noted and many strange things happen in a season. Baseball is a grind and guys get hurt and young guys come up and do better or worse than expected. Sometimes the best pitcher loses to the worst batter there is plenty of mystery and intrigue on any given day in baseball.

 

When it comes to assessing value though it is back to statistics.

[Sssuperdave]

So earlier I said "Meh" to this thread, but this is all pretty interesting so I'd like to expand upon my ambivalance.

 

I'm not a very good athlete but I used to be a very good classical musician. I considered trying to be a professional but I doubt I was good enough to truly make a living out of it. I would probably have been the musical equivalent of a AA flameout. I did have a lot of success in auditions and solo performances though, and I attributed some of that success to a sort of cockiness that I would try to turn on as I walked on the stage or in front of the judge. I would tell myself things like "They are here to listen to me." and "I'm going to show them what this is supposed to sound like." Arrogant, cocky stuff - it helped me relax.

 

But, that was all going on in my head. I never said it out loud, and I did my very best to think the opposite as soon as I walked off the stage. If I let myself believe all of that when I was in the practice room I would have gotten too complacent and quit working when I got tired.

 

I think I had the right idea, but I never perfected the balancing act. Sometimes I beat myself up too much on stage and get nervous, and other times I got too complacent in the practice room. Taking this analogy over to baseball, my "meh" response is becuase we don't know how good each player is at this balancing act. I question whether it's even possible to be successful on the field without confidence bordering on arrogance, but I think some guys try to or choose to turn that off as they step out of the batters box.

[Dman]

External emotion and fire is a lot more likely to be contagious than someone who internalizes it. The thing I have noticed is someone who is a lightning rod (such as Sano, AJ, etc) forces his teammates to raise their intensity and a close knit team will band together and have each other's back.

 

 

You don't need to be an ******* but I don't think it's a bad thing either.

 

 

Sure anything that brings a team closer together is a good thing. It could be something in the heat of battle or a knitting session. Doesn't really matter what it is if it brings the guys closer together. Passion isn't always bad but that is not my point. My point is that Talent and skill far outweigh any cumbaya moment you might have with your team. I know a bunch of washed up minor leaguers who have have tons of passion and fire but they never made it to the big leagues. Why? because they didn't have the talent to make it. Thinking passion is this immovable force that will make us winners just doesn't hold water. Players will simply have to perform better than the other team to win. No matter what emotion they are feeling it isn't going to change what they can or cannot do. Otherwise every time someone got angry they would hit a home run. It doesn't happen. It just doesn't work that way. Getting angry you are more likely to strike out than anything else. Yes eventually you will hit a home run but my point is the same. Stay focused, develop your talent and don;'t worry about passion. Once they start winning every one will agree they have the right amount of leadership and passion.