Pohlads Willing to Spend?

[Oxtung]

Could you please give an example of a team effectively rebuilt through free agency in the last 5 years?

 

I think the Marlins are well on their way. They brought in talent through FA then flipped it for 2 top 100 prospects, another fringey top 100 prospect and a very good, though admittedly problematic, major league shortstop. The idea that it is either FA or the farm system is a false dichotomy.

[Kwak]

we had the second pick in 2000 and the 30th pick in 2011 so it's not apples to apples, but with two supplemental picks in 2011 we wound up with:

 

1 levi michael - eesh

1s travis harrison - promising; his scouting reports aren't indicating plus tools but his production is solid for age/position/league

1s hudson boyd - he's imploded in the mwl this year and already moved to the bullpen. eesh. no more drafting fat preps, please.

2 madison boer - eesh

3 corey williams - starting to go backward in the fsl even though he's been a full time reliever for the duration of his pro career

4 matt summers - possible future no.5 starter; decent arm, doesn't miss bats at all

5 tyler grimes - flamed out at ss, reinvented as a catcher. we'll see....

 

and to think we may wind up with a top three system despite such a horrible recent draft.

 

I don't wish to sound mean, but your post and mine aren't related at all. My post was in reference to the posts about the drafts of 2001-2009. That post (and others) continually defend poor results in the draft do to a later selection. The Twins had second priority in 2000 and whiffed terribly--and there were many future major leaguers--even future all-stars after the 1st Round.

 

Your conclusions of the 2011 indicate that the Twins whiffed badly in 2011--but I am confident that are plenty of future MLers that were selected after Micheal, just not by the Twins.

[Kwak]

The one thing I'm not sure everyone understands is that it's a fairly good draft if you walk out with 2 major leaguers... Just something to think about.

 

Also, for all the talk about St. Louis, I really wonder how many people would flame the Twins if they used their methods. St. Louis loads up on high floor, lower ceiling guys from tough college conferences. I know a lot of people on this forum who would be up in arms about that type of draft. I think it makes sense given that they have consistently picked in the lower part of the first round. Right now, though, given where MN is picking, they need to be focusing heavily on star potential. They can augment in the safer guys once they have some established stars.

Two?? Not even close unless you are talking about a franchise that is built on free agents. Consider that there are 25 on an active roster, if only two per year then major leauge careers need to average 12 1/2 years! They don't. The Twins need to average 4 to 5 new major leaguers every year when injuries, flameouts, failures, and players lost to free agency are considered. Unless, they expect other teams to develop their players (free agents) for them.

[howieramone1406390264]

Two?? Not even close unless you are talking about a franchise that is built on free agents. Consider that there are 25 on an active roster, if only two per year then major leauge careers need to average 12 1/2 years! They don't. The Twins need to average 4 to 5 new major leaguers every year when injuries, flameouts, failures, and players lost to free agency are considered. Unless, they expect other teams to develop their players (free agents) for them.

No team in baseball averages 4 to 5 every year. Believe 2 is the number BA cited also as a successful draft.

[Kwak]

No team in baseball averages 4 to 5 every year. Believe 2 is the number BA cited also as a successful draft.

How long do you think a career lasts? How many new players did the Twins have this year? Mmm let's see--Hicks, Arcia, Theilbar, Collabello, The two new callups, got to be more relief pitchers--i can't remember them all. So forget two/year.

[glunn]

How long do you think a career lasts? How many new players did the Twins have this year? Mmm let's see--Hicks, Arcia, Theilbar, Collabello, The two new callups, got to be more relief pitchers--i can't remember them all. So forget two/year.

 

I believe that only two of these 4 were Twins draft picks (Hicks and Arcia), which may explain the difference.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Two?? Not even close unless you are talking about a franchise that is built on free agents. Consider that there are 25 on an active roster, if only two per year then major leauge careers need to average 12 1/2 years! They don't. The Twins need to average 4 to 5 new major leaguers every year when injuries, flameouts, failures, and players lost to free agency are considered. Unless, they expect other teams to develop their players (free agents) for them.

 

That number isn't a number I pulled out of my rear. It has been quoted by many a prospect hounds on many of sites. It seems about right too. Go look at every team's rosters and see how many guys on it are guys they drafted and developed... The disparity is likely due to all those guys teams let go who latch on to other teams as AAAA types and have a few year careers. You also forgot about intl. free agents when you did your math...

 

But yes, 2 guys is generally considered a decent draft. Some drafts can get a few more, and has we've seen, some don't do that.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Two?? Not even close unless you are talking about a franchise that is built on free agents. Consider that there are 25 on an active roster, if only two per year then major leauge careers need to average 12 1/2 years! They don't. The Twins need to average 4 to 5 new major leaguers every year when injuries, flameouts, failures, and players lost to free agency are considered. Unless, they expect other teams to develop their players (free agents) for them.

 

No team averages 4-5 players from every draft. None. Not even close.

 

If you get two, you're doing really well for yourself. Three is outstanding.

[Mike Sixel]

I look at it this way, how many guys come up each year that are real contributors to success. This year, none, until Gibson (I am making an assumption here). A team that refuses to trade for legit MLB players, or sign big time FAs needs to BETTER than other teams at drafting and developing players. The Twins have not been that lately. The farm system looks loaded right now, so hopefully that changes. But the last few years, not many above average, or even average, players have come up to fill positions. The pitching especially has been amazingly sparse.

[ThePuck]

I look at it this way, how many guys come up each year that are real contributors to success. This year, none, until Gibson (I am making an assumption here). A team that refuses to trade for legit MLB players, or sign big time FAs needs to BETTER than other teams at drafting and developing players. The Twins have not been that lately. The farm system looks loaded right now, so hopefully that changes. But the last few years, not many above average, or even average, players have come up to fill positions. The pitching especially has been amazingly sparse.

 

I think Hicks and Arcia both will be. Maybe not this year, though possibly this year for Hicks in the 2nd half, but I expect those two to be real contributors for years. I'm with your overall premise though.

[Mike Sixel]

I agree, at some point Hicks and Arcia will help this team, but they aren't this year. And not much if any help came last year, or the year before (Plouffe, maybe, Revere somehow was traded for real future help, which boggles the mind, frankly).

 

Until Gibson came up, look at where the starters have come from, and what they've doen for the last few years......ugh.

[ThePuck]

I agree, at some point Hicks and Arcia will help this team, but they aren't this year. And not much if any help came last year, or the year before (Plouffe, maybe, Revere somehow was traded for real future help, which boggles the mind, frankly).

 

Until Gibson came up, look at where the starters have come from, and what they've doen for the last few years......ugh.

 

Do you think Gibson has a legitimate chance to help us more this year than Hicks? If so, may I ask why? Don't necessarily agree, but curious as to your reasons if you do

[nicksaviking]

Do you think Gibson has a legitimate chance to help us more this year than Hicks? If so, may I ask why? Don't necessarily agree, but curious as to your reasons if you do

 

Off the top of my head, he may simply help by keeping the other starters off the field. But the same might be able to be said regarding Hicks keeping Thomas off the field.

[ThePuck]

Off the top of my head, he may simply help by keeping the other starters off the field. But the same might be able to be said regarding Hicks keeping Thomas off the field.

 

Ah, see I was just thinking about the actual performance of each of the two players instead of focusing on the overall effect. Oops. Certainly another thing to consider. Good call!

[nicksaviking]

Ah, see I was just thinking about the actual performance of each of the two players instead of focusing on the overall effect. Oops. Certainly another thing to consider. Good call!

 

Well your thought likely means more to the long term health of the team. I'm just in cynic mode today due to Reusse's piece, so I looked at it from the glass half empty point of view. Trying. To. Shake. The. Negativity!!!

[RedBull34]

How long do you think a career lasts? How many new players did the Twins have this year? Mmm let's see--Hicks, Arcia, Theilbar, Collabello, The two new callups, got to be more relief pitchers--i can't remember them all. So forget two/year.

 

To be fair you are completely missing on International Signings. Collabello was not drafted but signed from an semi-pro league. There are other ways than the draft to acquire new talent that doesn't involve FA's either.

[Mike Sixel]

Do you think Gibson has a legitimate chance to help us more this year than Hicks? If so, may I ask why? Don't necessarily agree, but curious as to your reasons if you do

 

I think that Gibson will look legit most of the rest of the year. Not sure hicks will. As in, I am confident Gibson is legit now, and will help the team when he is pitching. Hicks, I do not know what to expect, but so far, he has not come up and been good. Does that make sense?

[ThePuck]

I think that Gibson will look legit most of the rest of the year. Not sure hicks will. As in, I am confident Gibson is legit now, and will help the team when he is pitching. Hicks, I do not know what to expect, but so far, he has not come up and been good. Does that make sense?

 

Makes sense, but hasn't Hicks started coming out of it? .707 OPS in May, .708 in June, and .848 so far in July. I guess I've always been more optimistic about Hicks than Gibson.

[Kwak]

I believe that only two of these 4 were Twins draft picks (Hicks and Arcia), which may explain the difference.

They are still new players! If you don't draft your own, you have to get them from some other team. Oh, I forgot Gibson in my list. Count up 2011 and 2012's new players too--there are lots of them--most just don't last very long.

[ThePuck]

I like this article. It's about tradeline deals, but some of it...like some of the stuff the players said, I believe apply in all situations. Here's one quote:

 

'Go ask any player about what those deals do for a clubhouse. They have the ability to inspire and energize. They're a message from management that they believe in the players they've got on hand and are going to do everything possible to help them win. The future is now.'

 

Richard Justice: Trade Deadline hindsight is always 20/20 | MLB.com: News

[BabyJesusBuxton]

This sums it up right here:

 

"They do not often discuss the alternatives. That is, playing scared, not taking chances, is no way to run a franchise. At some point in the life of every baseball team, there's a time to go all in for that season, to stop worrying about collecting prospects and to try to win now. Sure, trades come with risks, but that's life."