At what point?

[Dunn]

I came out of this weekend thinking the exact same thing. It's not that I think Gardy is doing a terrible job, I just think that there is an air of complacency in the organization right now and a new infusion of blood (thank God the Sox snatched up Bobby V b/c that would have been devistating) might entice players to look at things differently. Additionally, a new voice could trigger some players to step it up and play harder. It's almost like bringing in a third opinion when things seem to be at a stalemate, as they look now.

[CDog]

This years Bullpen tells the story. The Twins were not willing to spend even a million dollars too upgrade the leagues worst Bullpen. Winning does take a back Seat to the Pohlad's profit.

In what world outside "The Producers" or "Major League" have the wicked owners figured out that losing is the recipe for profits?

[Steve Lein]

Ya, the Twins may not have the payroll of a "small market" team anymore, but they're not exactly "big market", or even close to being so, either. Take for instance, these facts:

 

- The Twins are 13th in Payroll this season - barely in the top half of baseball.

- They are spending less than half of what the #1 team does. They are NOT spending over half of what the #30 team (Padres) does. Some math: (Twins payroll) - (Padres payroll) = $39 MIL dollars. (Yankees payroll) - (Twins payroll) = $103 MIL dollars... You see what's wrong there?... "Top half of baseball" or "Top 10" or "$100 MIL" payroll is not some benchmark for being "big market" like some would like you to believe...

- A team like the Angels, armed with a very large new TV-deal, signed 2 free agents this offseason for roughly 4 times, and 12 times higher respectively, than the largest free agent contract the Twins have EVER handed out. Which, if you didn't know, happened this offseason as well. It was a deal for 3 years, 21 million total dollars, and the player's name is Josh Willingham.

 

Now, what about that tells you this team is now a "big market" one? "Big market" teams go out and get impact players from other teams through free agency or trades. When have the Twins done this? The answer is NEVER. The payroll rose because the group of players they had developed and found success with, finally got past their league minimum and arbitration years and were due significant raises, not because they went out and acquired elite talent from elsewhere.

 

The total payroll # may not exactly be "small market" and many will use Joe Mauer's contract as an example of why they are not, but they are still operated as a "small market" team when it comes to how they build the roster, and that's exactly the main difference one should consider in this argument -> Not the total $ amounts spent, but on WHO and HOW. That tells you all you need to know about "Big" vs. "Small" markets.

[nokomismod]

Isn't it okay for the team to step back and reload/rebuild. Why retain Kubel, Cuddyer, and Nathan when we all saw that didn't work last year. Let's have some patience. Most of us here were fans back in the mid 90's right? I'm not looking for a 10 year drought in winning, but I don't want a band aid fix or knee jerk reaction either.

[Riverbrian]

Ya, the Twins may not have the payroll of a "small market" team anymore, but they're not exactly "big market", or even close to being so, either. Take for instance, these facts:

 

- The Twins are 13th in Payroll this season - barely in the top half of baseball.

- They are spending less than half of what the #1 team does. They are NOT spending over half of what the #30 team (Padres) does. Some math: (Twins payroll) - (Padres payroll) = $39 MIL dollars. (Yankees payroll) - (Twins payroll) = $103 MIL dollars... You see what's wrong there?... "Top half of baseball" or "Top 10" or "$100 MIL" payroll is not some benchmark for being "big market" like some would like you to believe...

- A team like the Angels, armed with a very large new TV-deal, signed 2 free agents this offseason for roughly 4 times, and 12 times higher respectively, than the largest free agent contract the Twins have EVER handed out. Which, if you didn't know, happened this offseason as well. It was a deal for 3 years, 21 million total dollars, and the player's name is Josh Willingham.

 

Now, what about that tells you this team is now a "big market" one? "Big market" teams go out and get impact players from other teams through free agency or trades. When have the Twins done this? The answer is NEVER. The payroll rose because the group of players they had developed and found success with, finally got past their league minimum and arbitration years and were due significant raises, not because they went out and acquired elite talent from elsewhere.

 

The total payroll # may not exactly be "small market" and many will use Joe Mauer's contract as an example of why they are not, but they are still operated as a "small market" team when it comes to how they build the roster, and that's exactly the main difference one should consider in this argument -> Not the total $ amounts spent, but on WHO and HOW. That tells you all you need to know about "Big" vs. "Small" markets.

Nice Job on this post... I agree. That leads to the inevetible conclusion... The Inevetible rebuild.

 

One of the most disapointing developments from the past 5 years has been the fall of the farm system. It use to be the pride of baseball and now it's not. The Farm system has to be rebuilt and it has to start very soon or the return to a pennent chasing type team will be delayed. The Twins will have to strongly consider trading whichever player can bring young talent in return if they can't turn things around. If they don't think about the rebuild soon... It will be years of putting in spare parts to surround the M&M boys before finally starting to rebuild because it's inevitable.

 

Morneau isn't an attractive trade option at this point with his health issues and salary.

 

It's questionable if Mauer is a great option with his health issues and high salary and no trade clause but someone may want Joe at the trade deadline.

 

Denard Span could fetch a little but not a lot.

 

The Twins have very little pitching to move of significant value. Someone like Kyle Gibson could come back strong and then be moved for a couple of arms but that would take a couple of years of proving that he's an ace.

 

You can't trade someone like Sano since that's the type of player you are looking to acquire.

 

I can't tell you how disapointed I am... Considering the value that we have let get away for nothing and how it set the Twins program back.

 

Santana turned into Gomez and 3 other guys. The 3 other guys are nothing and Gomez Turned into Hardy and Hardy was traded for nothing.

Garza and Bartlett turned into Delmon and 2 other guys. The 2 other guys are nothing and Delmon was traded for Nothing. Flat out bad GM'ing during this time period.

 

Meanwhile the Rays were able to turn Garza into a boatlaod of prospects from the Cubs and they are competing in the AL East at half the salary and have AAA guys ready to fill in should someone fall.

 

I hate to say it... The best course of action for the Twins may be to get as young as they can... quickly... and then lose badly for a few years and draft college age players and draft very very well.

 

Be bad for a couple of years and get ready for the arrival of Sano, Hicks, Arcia and Rosario. Take player salary off the books and re-invest that salary into the scouting department. Make sure that every base is covered in the scouting department.

 

Terry Ryan has a very difficult job ahead of him. This year will probably be the canary in the coalmine. If the canary dies... It should signal a youth movement and it could start at the trade deadline. If the canary dies and they don't go to a youth movement... Just settle in your chair and watch the mediocrity fill the room from floor to ceiling until you decide that you just can't live here anymore.

[powrwrap]

Big market, small market, yadda, yadda, yadda... What is the definition of market size? Let me offer a definition. It's whatever size your media market happens to be. Specifically the Nielsen Media Research rankings of the Designated Market Area. The Yankees are in the #1 media market in the U.S. Not coincidentally they have the #1 payroll. Los Angeles is #2, then Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, S.F., Boston, Atlanta...hey, those market sizes pretty much track payroll sizes. The Twin Cities are ranked #15.

[Riverbrian]

Big market, small market, yadda, yadda, yadda... What is the definition of market size? Let me offer a definition. It's whatever size your media market happens to be. Specifically the Nielsen Media Research rankings of the Designated Market Area. The Yankees are in the #1 media market in the U.S. Not coincidentally they have the #1 payroll. Los Angeles is #2, then Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, S.F., Boston, Atlanta...hey, those market sizes pretty much track payroll sizes. The Twin Cities are ranked #15.

Not Entirely True... Most markets get additional large media markets that inflate the equation.

 

For example... Seattle isn't just Seattle... It's also Portland and all of Washington State and Oregon State and the Majority of the Northwest including Idaho and the Potato's that call that state home.

 

Atlanta isn't just Atlanta... It's the South. Charlotte NC, All of South Carolina, Alabama with Birmingham and Montgomery and Mobile. Mississippi is also Braves Country plus Nashville.

 

 

Dallas and Houston fight over markets like San Antonio and Austin.

 

Boston isn't just Boston, It's Maine, NH, VT, RI and Some of CT.

 

Michigan gets Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo and all of well populated Michigan.

 

Colorado gets a large portion of the Rockies into South Dakota and Down to New Mexico.

 

The Cardinals have Memphis and Little Rock

 

The Twins... They get Duluth and Fosston. That's why the Twins are Small Market and the new stadium will not change that.

 

They can talk about expansion all they want. The Truth is that the owners will not be able to get out of each other's way to let that happen.

 

If you want to expand in Portland... The Seattle Owners will be very concerned about losing the Portland Market and be against it.

 

Expand to Orlando... Tampa Bay and Miami will put up a stink.

 

Expand to New Jersey or the Bronx...The Yankees and Mets will fight you tooth and nail.

 

You can't look at the media market ranking and say done deal. The Truth is... The Definition of a small market is a smaller metro and lack of metro surrounding it. If you a big city in the middle of pasture. You are a small market team. The Twins are that exactly.

[Highabove]

The Twins have Big Market Ticket prices!!

[WJ]

Ryan won't fire Gardenhire and the Pohlads don't care enough about what goes on on the field to step in and do it themselves. I don't think he'll quit because that means his old Mets buddies will also be out of their jobs. I don't blame this 0-4 start on Gardenhire but I would fire him just to bitch slap the team into consciousness. His managerial skills are overrated. His motivational skills have yielded results that are there for everyone to see. He's been with one team a long time but he's far from a household name outside of baseball insiders. Nobody has asked him to host the Baseball Bunch like Tommy Lasorda.

[Shane Wahl]

The players are performing terribly so far. End of story.

[StormJH1]

Not Entirely True... Most markets get additional large media markets that inflate the equation.

 

The Twins... They get Duluth and Fosston. That's why the Twins are Small Market and the new stadium will not change that.

 

You can't look at the media market ranking and say done deal. The Truth is... The Definition of a small market is a smaller metro and lack of metro surrounding it. If you a big city in the middle of pasture. You are a small market team. The Twins are that exactly.

The guy from Grand Forks is telling us that the Twins don't have any fans in areas outside of the metro?! I think you have it exactly backwards. While the "North Country" isn't a particularly populated area, you have to go pretty far in any direction to run into another city with an MLB team. By contrast, states like Florida, NY, TX, and California have multiple teams. And if you live somewhere like Detroit, drive one hour south and you're in Ohio, and most people are Indians fans. The Twins don't have another centralized fan base in a "major city", but they are followed by a decent number of people in the Dakotas, Iowa, and even western Wisconsin. And regardless of that entire argument, they still spent $100 million on players this year, which is plenty of money to compete. They just haven't spent the money WELL.

[JB_Iowa]

I think Phil Mackey reported that the "new" TV deal is worth about $29 million/year to the Twins. Contrast that with the Angels (reportedly about $150 million/year) and the Rangers ($80 million/year) and with other teams like the Dodgers (due for a new deal soon) and the Phillies (expecting a huge deal in 2016) and of course, the Yankees and their YES network (where they are undoubtedly printing money).

 

Until Mackey's column, I thought the Twins were up for a new deal at the end of 2012 -- not knowing that it had already been renegotiated and extended. Certainly the new contract wasn't a "splash" in the media (although it probably was the reason for FSN exclusivity).

 

Think about it -- a $50 million/year in difference between the Rangers and the Twins. It would take a lot of tickets and merchandise sales to make that up.

 

"Small" market or "Big" market (or for that matter "Medium" market) are merely a matter of semantics. The difference in dollars is real. Could the Twins afford to raise their payroll? Undoubtedly. Did it make sense going into this year given the state of Mauer & Morneau & Span? Much more debatable.

 

I thoroughly agree that the Twins haven't spent their money well. And, yes, I believe that they have been -- and continue to be -- too complacent. As I posted repeatedly last year (elsewhere), this franchise is stagnant. They may have made a few changes in player personnel over the winter but aside from firing a couple of coaches in Rochester and the "back to the future" move of reinstalling Ryan, the management and coaching staff (on-field and in the office) never seems to change. They need an infusion of new energy and new ideas -- or a real return to fundamentals (instead of just giving it lip service).

[Fanatic Jack]

We have heard for years that Gardenhire does more with less. The only problem is nobody is saying that anymore. Paul Molitor or Jake Mauer would sell tickets and give fans hope for the future. Gardy is so stubborn he won't even make a coaching change like Vavra or Scott Ulger (who has been given every job except bat boy) with the team. Change is needed and soon. NO Way Gardy makes it through season.

[luckylager]

We have heard for years that Gardenhire does more with less. The only problem is nobody is saying that anymore. Paul Molitor or Jake Mauer would sell tickets and give fans hope for the future. Gardy is so stubborn he won't even make a coaching change like Vavra or Scott Ulger (who has been given every job except bat boy) with the team. Change is needed and soon. NO Way Gardy makes it through season.

What evidence is there that Paul Molitor or Jake Mauer would do any better job with the current roster? Nobody buys tickets to watch the manager.

[zenser]

I know we are 4 games into the season. I think Gardy has done an OK job. I personally think Vavra needs to go. I my opinion, players have regressed under him. So far this season, Jake Arrieta, Tommy Hunter, Jason Hammel, and CJ Wilson have pretty much shut down the offense. That certainly doesn't look like a bunch of Cy Youngs to me. What is going to happen when we see Verlander, Weaver, Haren, Price, Lester, Sabathia? I can't count how many slow rollers to SS or 2B have been hit this year. How many hard hit balls were there at the home opener (Willingham's homer, Willingham's long foul ball, Doumits single, and Mauer's single)? The offense is just flat out pathetic. When you have hit into more double plays then runs scored, that is saying something.

 

I do think it is about time for a new regime. Gardy, Anderson, Vavra, Liddle, Ulger, not all of them deserve the boot but it is time for a new direction, new approach at the plate, and new philosophy on the mound.

[Fanatic Jack]

Luckylager,

 

You are so wrong. How many people over the years have said they want Gardy gone. Pretty much anybody at this point would bring fans in. ANYBODY!!!

[gunnarthor]

What evidence is there that Paul Molitor or Jake Mauer would do any better job with the current roster? Nobody buys tickets to watch the manager.

Exactly right.

[TwinsFan01]

I'm not sure any new manager would bring more fans in - at least not directly. BUT a new manager could breathe some new life into this club - they're as stale as they were last Sept. and that needs to change or Target Field will be empty.

 

They need someone to boost morale and get this squad to expect a little more of themselves. I thought the Twins let go of guys like Young, Thome, Cuddyer, Kubel & Nathan because they're 'rebuilding'...well, IMO that rebuilding needs to start at the top. The same old attitudes & philosophies aren't going to magically work on a new crop of players.

[Steve Lein]

Also, the "fall" of the farm system is very easy to diagnose. In the past 10 years, the Twins have only had 1 draft pick that was above slot 20 (was Aaron Hicks at #14), and they've also been very against drafting elite players that fell due to signability concerns, or in other words, who wanted a lot of money to keep them from their college commitments. As an example, the Pirates drafted OF Josh Bell last year in the 2nd round, and then shelled out $5 MIL to sign him (that's top 5 pick money). If you're not picking in the Top 10 for that long of a period, are unwilling to go significantly over slot $ amounts (which is no longer a concern with the new CBA), and you have failed in using your best assets (Santana, etc...) to restock it, it should be pretty obvious that your farm system will suffer to churn out talent. But unfortunately, that farm system talent is what the Twins need to count on to be successful, and it's now fallen into a rebuild mode, which is a shame as we're in the middle of the last wave of talents prime (Mauer & Morneau). It won't be a quick rebuild for the Twins either, as they don't have that elite player that can be moved for a haul. No Ace looking for his first big free agent deal, no stud veteran hitter without concerns or an unmovable contract. There's only 2 trade pieces I see on this team that could bring back something worthwhile, but both also have questions that will stunt their value, they being Francisco Liriano and Denard Span. But even then, you're not exactly going to reload a farm system by moving those guys.

 

And this made me laugh:

The Twins have Big Market Ticket prices!

Um, have you SEEN what the Yankees charge?! -> http://mlb.mlb.com/nyy/ballpark/seating_pricing.jsp

[spideyo]

The Twins "home region" is geographically one of the largest in baseball actually, stretching from eastern wisconsin all the way to eastern montana, and south down to Iowa (not sure where the kansas city/minnesota line is). It's not a very densely populated area though, and the ad rates in Fargo, Des Moines, Rapid City, St Cloud, Duluth, Rochester, Grand Forks, Mankato COMBINED is probably half what it is in NYC.

[Jeff P]

Regarding the original question, I think it will probably take another season like last year before Gardy is on the hot seat and maybe another bad season next year before the Twins decide to do anything. This organization is loyal and is reluctant to make big changes, I think that is mostly good but there is a point when someone high up in the organization recognizes that changes are needed.

 

It is amazing how many areas fans are really frustrated with regarding the organization: manager, hitting coach, pitching coach, organizational philosophy on hitting and pitching, etc. Not saying fans are completely right but there are enough issues popping up that at least the team needs to reevaluate itself.

 

Jeff

[Riverbrian]

The guy from Grand Forks is telling us that the Twins don't have any fans in areas outside of the metro?! I think you have it exactly backwards. While the "North Country" isn't a particularly populated area, you have to go pretty far in any direction to run into another city with an MLB team. By contrast, states like Florida, NY, TX, and California have multiple teams. And if you live somewhere like Detroit, drive one hour south and you're in Ohio, and most people are Indians fans. The Twins don't have another centralized fan base in a "major city", but they are followed by a decent number of people in the Dakotas, Iowa, and even western Wisconsin. And regardless of that entire argument, they still spent $100 million on players this year, which is plenty of money to compete. They just haven't spent the money WELL.

lol... I'm not sure if you are serious with this post or not. This topic is a little off the topic and should probably have it's own thread but regardless... Some things to consider on the off topic.

 

 

Understanding Market sizes and demographics is what I kinda do for a living. You are correct that there are certain baseball markets that are penned in geographically and the Twins can roam free to the North and West for many miles.

 

You do realize that the states you list as having multiple teams also have the 4 highest state popluations. 37 Million in CA... 24 Million in TX. NY and FL are 19 million. That's why those states have multiple teams. Detroit does get a piece of Toledo a fairly nice sized city but there is a bunch of population in the state of Michigan. Grand Rapids, Lansing, Kalamazoo, Saginaw. They don't need to branch out into Ohio to provide Television viewership.

 

In the Twins case... However, the population totals and hence the value of your TV contract in our additional markets are small #250+ Ranked TV markets like St. Cloud and Fargo and Grand Forks and unranked small communities. They do not add up to what other baseball teams get from markets like San Antonio, Austin, New Orleans, Memphis, Charlotte, Portland, Sacremento, Colorado Springs, Indianapolis, Columbus, Grand Rapids, Buffalo, Orlando, Tucson, Omaha, and Hartford and all of the Fosston sized town's that are also in the area of those bonus areas.

 

Here's a Wikipedia Map of the blackout areas. It shows how the entire country is carved up for Television Rights and gives you a pretty good idea how the Twins are cornered into primarily low population areas.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MLB_Blackout_Areas.png

 

The Twins don't even get Rapid City and Duluth to themselves because they have to share them with the Rockies and Brewers.

 

Getting a change to this map would be near impossible because the owners will never let a population base go to another club because that effects the amount of money they get in their television negotiations.

 

Television revenue is only part of the revenue stream for Baseball teams. Target field has been great for the Twins and it does provide additional revenue that can be added to the Television Money and Attendence Figures and everything else.

 

As JB_Iowa pointed out. 29 Million in TV Revenue for the Twins compared to 80 Million for the Rangers is a 51 Million dollar desparity. The stadium is great for revenue but it doesn't remove our small market status. The only thing that will change that is a major population boom in Bemidji.

 

One thing that would help is if the Twins could get Iowa to themselves. It would be nice to have our AAA team in Des Moines instead of the Cubs to help build that fan base and the games on daily but the Cubs are probably going nowhere and the teams will not willingly walk away from a larger market.

 

Can the Twins spend more... Probably but for Owners to do that. There has to be some bang for the buck. The Twins lost 99 games last year.

 

If a strong core of players dot the roster and the team is a few pieces away... The Checkbook will come out again. At least I hope so.

[StormJH1]

@Riverbrian - I will defer to your expertise in market demographics. My goal was not to be a troll or prove necessarily that the Twins are a "small market", "mid-sized market" or whatever. I don't think it matters. As JB_Iowa pointed out, there are so many other factors that determine cash flow, and when you get to the question of the ballclub's budget, ticket revenue and the personal wealth of the owners (and willingness to risk a loss on the product) are much more important factors than sheer availability of people that could potentially watch games on TV, buy merchandise, or pay for tickets.

 

My point was more to the effect that it doesn't matter. The Twins would not have cut $12 to $15 million off their budget if (a) they had performed significantly better than a 99-loss season; and ( if spending the additional money would have made any significant difference in their 2012 outcome. All I am saying is that to the extent people assume that the extra money necessarily would have made this team better, and that's not the case. The 2007 Tigers went from an 88-win team to an 88-loss team in 2008 by INCREASING their payroll from $95 million to $137 million in one offseason. In any event, I think we arguing the same thing on that point...

[Shane Wahl]

Interesting stuff in the last couple posts. I wonder what the total population is in those blackout areas. I have also thought about how having minor league teams within that area might certainly help that as well. Furthermore, that is atrocious that the Brewers invade Minnesota like that.

[Riverbrian]

@Riverbrian - I will defer to your expertise in market demographics. My goal was not to be a troll or prove necessarily that the Twins are a "small market", "mid-sized market" or whatever. I don't think it matters. As JB_Iowa pointed out, there are so many other factors that determine cash flow, and when you get to the question of the ballclub's budget, ticket revenue and the personal wealth of the owners (and willingness to risk a loss on the product) are much more important factors than sheer availability of people that could potentially watch games on TV, buy merchandise, or pay for tickets.

 

My point was more to the effect that it doesn't matter. The Twins would not have cut $12 to $15 million off their budget if (a) they had performed significantly better than a 99-loss season; and ( if spending the additional money would have made any significant difference in their 2012 outcome. All I am saying is that to the extent people assume that the extra money necessarily would have made this team better, and that's not the case. The 2007 Tigers went from an 88-win team to an 88-loss team in 2008 by INCREASING their payroll from $95 million to $137 million in one offseason. In any event, I think we arguing the same thing on that point...

That's Ok Storm we are probably talking in a couple different directions overall. This whole left turn in the thread came from an earlier post by "powrwrap" where he stated that you should just follow the Neilsen DMA rankings to determine who is large market and small market and I just went on to explain that it wasn't completely the case.

 

Which led to your post and then my post. There are many factors that determine a clubs cashflow and to a point it doesn't matter but in the end... In my opinion... Small Market teams can never truly catch up.

 

We have a new stadium... That gives us a nice revenue stream and it helped even the playing field a bit. Soon... Everyone will have one... Corporate Boxes... Amusement Parks... Upscale and Lowscale dining... Hotels attached... Parking revenue... The possibilities are endless... Some are happening and some will be happening in the future... If something brings in money to an organization... Everyone will want it and copy it.

 

When everyone gets their parks and maxes out the money streams... The money revenue difference in teams will be back to... Market Size... How much money you get in your TV contract which will be based on the population of your TV market. Right now we get 29 million and the Angels get 160 Million. That's a large difference.

 

My point is that the Twins are still a small market team. No matter how much they spend or how much revenue the stadium brings in.

[Riverbrian]

Interesting stuff in the last couple posts. I wonder what the total population is in those blackout areas. I have also thought about how having minor league teams within that area might certainly help that as well. Furthermore, that is atrocious that the Brewers invade Minnesota like that.

I am too offended by the Brewers muscling into Twins Territory... It's probably pay back for our little push into Wisconsin.

 

I don't have any info to direct you to on the total population of the total population areas. However, some night... When you have nothing to do... You can do it by state and get a pretty idea... North Dakota plus South Dakota Plus Minnesota Equals...

 

This whole thing is why the Giants were not allowing Oakland to move to San Jose... This was the reason that the Orioles were against the Expo's moving to Washington. For anything like that to happen... Someone has to be compensated for the lost revenue. MLB had to basically tell the Orioles owner... Tough *&*&... Here's some money now shut up... Something like that will happen with the Giants as well.

 

This whole thing is why I doubt expansion will most likely not happen. The Owner will not be able to get out of each other's way.

 

 

When it comes to Des Moines... I'm not saying having a AAA club in Iowa would help turn Iowa into Twins Territory but it certainly wouldn't hurt if Sano had to spend a year in Des Moines playing AAA and Iowa Sano and Rosario and Hicks fans can get to know him and follow him forward. It would certainly help bring down travel costs a little but that isn't a huge factor.

 

The Key is to own the Television in Iowa. That way the next generation of Iowa baseball Fans are exposed to the Twins and the Twins only. Small chance of that happening sadly. Iowa is carved up between the Cubs, White Sox, Royals, Twins, Brewers and Cards. If it did. The Twins market size and Television revenue would almost double.

 

It's also why I doubted Carl Pohlad when he threatened to move the team to North Carolina before moving on to the contraction threat.

[Riverbrian]

Here's a solution...

 

Talk the Pirates into moving their AAA team to Rochester. It's closer then Indianapolis and maybe that will help them expand into Western New York.

Talk the Cubs into moving their AAA team to Indianapolis. Indiana like Iowa is designated Cubs territory.

Then move the AAA Twins to Des Moines.

 

The only problem with that scenerio is getting everyone to say... OK... This Riverbrian knows what he's talking about... That never happens. ;-)

[darin617]

If only Garza and Bartlett were still here we would have as close as an ace as we will ever get and a decent SS. Just wait until the month is over and hope it takes 2 hands to count the amount of wins the club has.

[gunnarthor]

Souhan suggested in the strib today that the Pohlad sons might not be as loyal as Carl was. "While I don't believe Terry Ryan would fire manager Ron Gardenhire, it would be foolish to think that the new Pohlads will be patient with the field staff if the losing continues. And what if this team implodes and Ryan refuses a Pohlad command to fire Gardenhire? Would Ryan suddenly remember the "interim" adjective in front of his title?"

 

While I don't think Gardy should be fired, it may be more of a possibility than I thought.

[whydidnt]

Wow, I know the Strib's comments tend to run negative, but so far there isn't one comment disagreeing with Souhan's premise and the state of the Twins. A lot of, I think deserved, anger towards the Pohlads for cutting payroll this year there too. Like I've posted before if you cut payroll because of poor performance, it almost becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. You'll always do worse and you'll always be cutting payroll. On a positive note, Baseball Prospectus shows the Twins still have a 1.1% chance of making the playoffs this year. To quote Jim Carey: "You mean there's a chance?!?!?"