2025 Vikings Season

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I think his performance combined with this new concussion might make JJM the permanent backup here. (Caveat: Nothing is permanent.)

However, I’m not giving up on him. We saw the comebacks. There’s life in him.

God, what a mess! 

[gunnarthor]

16 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I think his performance combined with this new concussion might make JJM the permanent backup here. (Caveat: Nothing is permanent.)

However, I’m not giving up on him. We saw the comebacks. There’s life in him.

God, what a mess! 

I'm kind of hoping that a soft reboot helps him. He'll miss the ass-kicking in Seattle but likely start the following week at home against Washington. Washington's defense isn't great. Maybe sitting for a week might help clear his head a bit. The Warner video showed that his biggest problem might be making his reads fast enough. But, yeah, it's a mess. 

[TheLeviathan]

50 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I'm kind of hoping that a soft reboot helps him. He'll miss the ass-kicking in Seattle but likely start the following week at home against Washington. Washington's defense isn't great. Maybe sitting for a week might help clear his head a bit. The Warner video showed that his biggest problem might be making his reads fast enough. But, yeah, it's a mess. 

The article from Arif seems to show he's even having trouble spitting out plays in the huddle.  I know he's young and that injury last year hurt his progress....but right now we're broken at levels I didn't think were possible.

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

The article from Arif seems to show he's even having trouble spitting out plays in the huddle.  I know he's young and that injury last year hurt his progress....but right now we're broken at levels I didn't think were possible.

He had an entire season to learn how to call plays in the huddle. Like, I'd think he practiced that..... What else could he do?

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

The article from Arif seems to show he's even having trouble spitting out plays in the huddle.  I know he's young and that injury last year hurt his progress....but right now we're broken at levels I didn't think were possible.

Seems like too many of his throws come from way to low of an arm slot.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

2 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

The article from Arif seems to show he's even having trouble spitting out plays in the huddle.  I know he's young and that injury last year hurt his progress....but right now we're broken at levels I didn't think were possible.

I believe it. As a JJ McCarthy bobo, I've listed some excuses for him (became a father, it's just his first year, flukey schedule early on) but not staying healthy is a big concern, either way. There are always going to be different personnel and scheme to learn from week to week. So that's not necessarily a great excuse to me. If Brosmer shows anything next week, I think McCarthy is assigned the clipboard and the bench.  

There is a TikTok guy who always comes out with the five worst NFL plays of the week, stuff like that, and this week it was McCarthy's five worst passes. The whole bit is that every play on the list is not from the whole league, but from the same player. There are also 'honorable mention' plays which extends the list to like 7 or 8 and makes it funnier (except when it's your guy, not so funny). Anyway, when you look at all the bad decisions and bumbling plays McCarthy made this week, and you see these all in succession, it's very persuasive. Does not paint a pretty picture. And I don't think this was the first time McCarthy was the feature player for this guys' TikToks. (I think Week 1 it was CJ Stroud but it could have been McCarthy if not for the 4th quarter comeback)

It's fun to make jokes during the game about how bad he is, and, it's way too early to give up on him. Maybe he needs one more offseason to reset. Like nicksaviking said, I think the most likely scenario is McCarthy does eventually find himself but with a different team. I could see him a couple years from now, coming in the second half for some team and throwing for 3 TDs and putting himself on the map again. 

Unfortunately for us today, he is a long ways away from that consistency or competency.  

[Vanimal46]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

He had an entire season to learn how to call plays in the huddle. Like, I'd think he practiced that..... What else could he do?

There were articles last year about him taking virtual reps with VR headsets. Maybe he was watching something X rated on that VR headset instead. Who knows

[Vanimal46]

47 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

There is a TikTok guy

Look at you being hip, now, with it, and wow

[Vanimal46]

Just another article pointing out the tension in the organization... CC: @gunnarthor

I'll pull out a couple of quotes:

Quote

In two weeks, a divorce from Darnold went from unlikely to probable. The Vikings had too many holes to fill. They also had an inexperienced young quarterback who struggled through a season away from the action and the spotlight. Some inside the building pushed to keep Darnold, thinking that with more time in the system, his professionalism and experience would matter more than a couple of free-agent signings.

 

Quote

In Seattle, Darnold is surrounded by believers. Seahawks general manager John Schneider believes in Darnold the person as much as he does Darnold the player. Head coach Mike Macdonald believes in what he saw when his team lost to Darnold last season: poise, accuracy, toughness, leadership and high-level command of the game.

The coach was asked this week why Darnold’s poor finish in Minnesota didn’t deter the Seahawks from signing him.

“It’s a little narrow-minded,” Macdonald said. “You’re just going to go off a two-game sample? When we were looking into possibly trying to get Sam, to a person, the type of player and teammate he was on a daily basis was really cool."

 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

Just another article pointing out the tension in the organization... CC: @gunnarthor

I'll pull out a couple of quotes:

 

 

Yeah, but all the articles are going to default to painting Seattle and Darnold in glorious light right now. 

Is there any scenario where Seattle personnel would say they don't believe in Darnold? And what else is the coach going to say when asked why the two bad big game losses didn't deter Seattle from signing him?

I actually hope all goes well with Darnold and Seattle, it still doesn't make me regret taking a huge step back in an attempt to find a different long term QB.

[Vanimal46]

In a weird twist of fate, Darnold's play last year helped both Kwesi and KOC get their extensions. And him walking away may eventually lead to their firings. 

[Vanimal46]

Healthy scratch to waived. 

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Healthy scratch to waived. 

What an awful offseason this past year. Just, nearly every decision, was wrong. 

[Aggies7]

I was hoping that statement was a resignation from KAM 😂

[Aggies7]

Let Kwesi cook

[nicksaviking]

So last week he was asked to get waived? He was a healthy scratch this week, so why the delay? 

This is going to be a bad look when he goes back to the Panthers and makes the playoffs. What a great trade.

[Mike Sixel]

Bryce Young never looked this bad, but he looked bad. Now? He looks at least average. So, I guess there is hope (though I don't believe). 

[The Great Hambino]

I guess you can't whiff on a draft pick if you light it on fire during the preceding season

[nicksaviking]

14 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Bryce Young never looked this bad, but he looked bad. Now? He looks at least average. So, I guess there is hope (though I don't believe). 

If this team is hoping McCarthy can pull a Bryce Young reversal, all is lost. That bar is unacceptably low.

If the Panthers are serious about winning, they should already be looking to upgrade their QB, and I bet they are having those discussions.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, nicksaviking said:

If this team is hoping McCarthy can pull a Bryce Young reversal, all is lost. That bar is unacceptably low.

If the Panthers are serious about winning, they should already be looking to upgrade their QB, and I bet they are having those discussions.

I never said I liked or believed, just that it was possible. Also, Young might not be done getting better....Maybe he can take a leap (I have doubts). 

[nicksaviking]

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I never said I liked or believed, just that it was possible. Also, Young might not be done getting better....Maybe he can take a leap (I have doubts). 

Yup, I get it. My point is only that if the Vikings are hoping McCarthy makes a reversal akin to Young, they shouldn't bother; that's not good enough and they should start over.

[TheLeviathan]

If nothing else, the extent of the awful play should force a reckoning on a number of issues: drafting process, roster construction, coaching, etc.  But to me there are still three central issues:

1) Under this GM our drafts have been putrid.  You can't be bad at drafting and hope to be a good football team.  

2) This team lacks an identity.  We're not physical and don't appear to want to be a physical team.  We're not a speedy bunch of freaks hoping to turn games into a track meet.  We might have an alright defense but it can be attacked with physicality.  We don't run even though we're fairly good at it.  We don't stop the run or the pass super well, we're just alright at both.  

Like....what do we hang our hat on?  Teams in the NFL with no identity have an identity: losers

3)  Our owners need to allow an actual rebuild to happen.  Gut the roster, be ok with being terrible, hit a true reset.  Teams that do it well can reverse their fortunes REALLY fast in the NFL.  Look at New England.  The Commanders last year.  The Colts.  The Broncos.  The Bears.  The Seahawks. 

This doesn't have to be 5 years of pain....but it might have to be 1.  The owners need to accept that "meh, we're alright most of the time" isn't the goal.

[nicksaviking]

6 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

 

This doesn't have to be 5 years of pain....but it might have to be 1.  The owners need to accept that "meh, we're alright most of the time" isn't the goal.

This seems to come up every few years, and this is the problem statement because the owners, or whomever making this call thinks that ONE season should be THIS season. It doesn't work that way.  The reset doesn't start when you have an old aging roster, it happens after you purge them. 

And I agree, not with this GM. Can't waste year after year of draft picks.

[TheLeviathan]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

This seems to come up every few years, and this is the problem statement because the owners, or whomever making this call thinks that ONE season should be THIS season. It doesn't work that way.  The reset doesn't start when you have an old aging roster, it happens after you purge them. 

And I agree, not with this GM. Can't waste year after year of draft picks.

Good point, it will probably have to be sold to them as 2 years with this being year 1.

[nicksaviking]

So KOC is already saying that McCarthy is going to clear concussion protocol and be ready for next week.

I do a lot of fantasy football, so I follow a ton of players who've been out with concussions. I don't remember ever hearing this kind of presumption on a Monday. This type of injury almost always comes with ambiguity and uncertainty and no one ever talks like the guy will be cleared before he actually IS cleared late in the week.

[gunnarthor]

6 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

If nothing else, the extent of the awful play should force a reckoning on a number of issues: drafting process, roster construction, coaching, etc.  But to me there are still three central issues:

1) Under this GM our drafts have been putrid.  You can't be bad at drafting and hope to be a good football team.  

2) This team lacks an identity.  We're not physical and don't appear to want to be a physical team.  We're not a speedy bunch of freaks hoping to turn games into a track meet.  We might have an alright defense but it can be attacked with physicality.  We don't run even though we're fairly good at it.  We don't stop the run or the pass super well, we're just alright at both.  

Like....what do we hang our hat on?  Teams in the NFL with no identity have an identity: losers

3)  Our owners need to allow an actual rebuild to happen.  Gut the roster, be ok with being terrible, hit a true reset.  Teams that do it well can reverse their fortunes REALLY fast in the NFL.  Look at New England.  The Commanders last year.  The Colts.  The Broncos.  The Bears.  The Seahawks. 

This doesn't have to be 5 years of pain....but it might have to be 1.  The owners need to accept that "meh, we're alright most of the time" isn't the goal.

No. This is mostly just wrong. 

1) Honest question, why do you think the drafts have been bad as opposed to it being something else - either coaching or development? Ingram and Blackmon were both 2nd round picks that are starting elsewhere and looking better. Are we sure we made a bad pick or was our coaching/development unable to get those players to perform better? 7 out of the 10 picks made in 2022 are still playing, just on other teams. As a point made in another post, we've seen a number of our o-lineman leave and be better and the ones we've brought in seem worse - Kelly, Fries, and even Skule this year. Because if your plan is fire KAM becasue the drafts have been bad, you really aren't doing anything. He doesn't make the picks, the guys who do are still here. 

2) I'm not sure it lacked an identity. This year has been bad QB play and a weak o-line but we've gone 38-25 for a reason - they are an explosive downfield offense with a strong chaotic defense. Those are identities.  

3) None of these are tear it all down rebuilds. Washington, Denver, and NE sucked until they got their QBOTF. Washington sucks again. Indy has had one good year - this one - with a Darnold like replacement and have failed with guys like Wentz, Minshew, and Richardson. That's literally the situation you and others complain about. The NFL doesn't have tear it down rebuilds. It doesn't happen. The Browns and Jets have tried it. They'll do it again. That's why KAM/KOC is so surprising. They've had a .600 winning percentage without a franchise QB. That's really hard to do.

[Vanimal46]

It's going to be an interesting offseason. Someone is going to take the fall for the gross miscalculation of the QB room. If KOC stays, then there's going to be a lot of assistant coaches being replaced. OL coach for sure. The shine was worn off on QB coach Josh McCown... Does Flores move on to another DC job elsewhere? 

McCarthy has so much work to do in the offseason. I'm fine with him competing for the starting job next year, but he will need to transform everything about his game right now. I wouldn't be surprised if the QB room is Anthony Richardson and McCarthy in 2026 and we tank for a better QB draft class in 2027.

[gunnarthor]

24 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

It's going to be an interesting offseason. Someone is going to take the fall for the gross miscalculation of the QB room. If KOC stays, then there's going to be a lot of assistant coaches being replaced. OL coach for sure. The shine was worn off on QB coach Josh McCown... Does Flores move on to another DC job elsewhere? 

McCarthy has so much work to do in the offseason. I'm fine with him competing for the starting job next year, but he will need to transform everything about his game right now. I wouldn't be surprised if the QB room is Anthony Richardson and McCarthy in 2026 and we tank for a better QB draft class in 2027.

I think Flores stays unless he gets a HC job elsewhere. But I think that the offensive line coach, QB coach, offensive coordinator, and the ST coordinator are all likely gone for different reasons. I like Nick's idea about bringing in someone like Zac Taylor to help run the offense. 

[Vanimal46]

52 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I think Flores stays unless he gets a HC job elsewhere. But I think that the offensive line coach, QB coach, offensive coordinator, and the ST coordinator are all likely gone for different reasons. I like Nick's idea about bringing in someone like Zac Taylor to help run the offense. 

I’d also explore Bill Callahan and his son who was fired from Tennessee as a combo package. Bill’s been an OL coach for decades. 

[TheLeviathan]

2 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

No. This is mostly just wrong. 

1) Honest question, why do you think the drafts have been bad as opposed to it being something else - either coaching or development? Ingram and Blackmon were both 2nd round picks that are starting elsewhere and looking better. Are we sure we made a bad pick or was our coaching/development unable to get those players to perform better? 7 out of the 10 picks made in 2022 are still playing, just on other teams. As a point made in another post, we've seen a number of our o-lineman leave and be better and the ones we've brought in seem worse - Kelly, Fries, and even Skule this year. Because if your plan is fire KAM becasue the drafts have been bad, you really aren't doing anything. He doesn't make the picks, the guys who do are still here. 

2) I'm not sure it lacked an identity. This year has been bad QB play and a weak o-line but we've gone 38-25 for a reason - they are an explosive downfield offense with a strong chaotic defense. Those are identities.  

3) None of these are tear it all down rebuilds. Washington, Denver, and NE sucked until they got their QBOTF. Washington sucks again. Indy has had one good year - this one - with a Darnold like replacement and have failed with guys like Wentz, Minshew, and Richardson. That's literally the situation you and others complain about. The NFL doesn't have tear it down rebuilds. It doesn't happen. The Browns and Jets have tried it. They'll do it again. That's why KAM/KOC is so surprising. They've had a .600 winning percentage without a franchise QB. That's really hard to do.

There is no point in having a draft discussion with you.  You counted Ed Ingram (traded for pennies and benched repeatedly) and Meckhi Blackmon (Cut) as draft "hits".  You're just existing, by choice, on another planet from objective reality.  We have gotten frighteningly little production on the 2025 Vikings from draft assets.  If KAM made those picks, he is responsible for that failure.  If he didn't (which I guess you're suggesting?) - then fire him for not being helpful in any meaningful way.

Those of us who live in the real world, who aren't flat-earthing our way to an opinion, see the draft results for what they are.  KAM is the head of that department.  The dismal failure of it is on him.

The team had a soft identity last year too.  They have consistently under KOC.  As good as the defense was, it was turnover dependent which is not a super translatable skill.  (As demonstrated this year.  And as the Bears will surely feel next year)  They don't do anything well.  They don't have a ferocious pass rush like Denver or Seattle.  (w/o blitzing)  They don't have a lockdown secondary.  They don't have a rough and tumble OL.  I'm not sure what you'd call our running back room, it has the most muddled identity of all the position groups.

I know what the Rams do well.  I know what the Lions do well.  I know those teams and their identities.  The Vikings can win all the games they want, I won't see a contender until I see an identity.  

Lastly - WTF?  "None of these are tear it down rebuilds" and then you proceed to name three teams that were hot garbage and rebuilt around a young QB.  The hell do you think a tear it down rebuild is?  Washington has a hurt QB.  Indy is playing well.  Is it sustainable?  No, probably not.  Was it five years of sucking?  Also no.  

The NFL absolutely has tear it down rebuilds.  That's how the Bengals got Burrow.  It's how the Bills got Allen.  The Patriots shredded their roster and picked in the top of the draft multiple years while trying to find the guy.  

Does it take some teams longer than 5 years?  Sure.  And it will if we keep letting Kwesi "I crush it with Ed Ingram talents" Adolfo Mensah keep running drafts.  But under a GM that can actually hit on their picks?  That turnaround can happen a lot faster than in most major sports.