Puk to AZ

[tony&rodney]

Wonder if Falvey inquired on Puk. We never know how individual teams evaluate prospects from other teams but the two players going to Miami seems light. I think the Twins could have easily beat the deal that went through. 

[cmoss84]

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

Wonder if Falvey inquired on Puk. We never know how individual teams evaluate prospects from other teams but the two players going to Miami seems light. I think the Twins could have easily beat the deal that went through. 

Same with Arroz Arena

[ashbury]

Lefty reliever alert! Diamondbacks just DFAed Joe Jacques to make room for Puk. Should we grab him?

Just kidding. He looks terrible.

[Jocko87]

I thought the pay for Puk was very high.  Barely 21yo mashing (28hr/1.011OPS!) at AA/AAA and was in the futures game=Keaschall or Erod plus another good piece of ours.  They were 8 and 21 on the D-backs list.  No thanks.

Methinks remember the name Deyvison De Los Santos.  He's a perfect rule 5 darling.

What the heck is Tanner Scott worth?

[tony&rodney]

7 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

Same with Arroz Arena

My exact thoughts when I saw the news on the TB-SEA trade.

I think the Twins are going to sit it out.

[tony&rodney]

5 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

 

Methinks remember the name Deyvison De Los Santos.

He is a DH and was sent back by Cleveland after being taken in last winter's Rule 5. Hits a ton, similar to Severino but younger. Gabriel Gonzalez is seen as a better hitter as far as prospects go.

[USAFChief]

9 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

I thought the pay for Puk was very high.  

Huh?

 

[USAFChief]

Puk was perfect. And cost almost nothing. 

Very disappointing.

[Jocko87]

17 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Puk was perfect. And cost almost nothing. 

Very disappointing.

Equivalent pay from the Twins system is Keaschall and another piece. Bowen maybe. That's nuts. This is an absolute fleecing.

If the Twins traded a guy that turned 21 at AAA while OPSing over 1.000 with real power for an average lefty reliever these boards would burn down. Regardless of that guys defensive limitations. 

And Chief would lead the charge. 

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Equivalent pay from the Twins system is Keaschall and another piece. Bowen maybe. That's nuts. This is an absolute fleecing.

If the Twins traded a guy that turned 21 at AAA while OPSing over 1.000 with real power for an average lefty reliever these boards would burn down. Regardless of that guys defensive limitations. 

And Chief would lead the charge. 

Nah. Chief places little value on prospects.....

[Cory Engelhardt]

8 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Equivalent pay from the Twins system is Keaschall and another piece. Bowen maybe. That's nuts. This is an absolute fleecing.

If the Twins traded a guy that turned 21 at AAA while OPSing over 1.000 with real power for an average lefty reliever these boards would burn down. Regardless of that guys defensive limitations. 

And Chief would lead the charge. 

Keaschall is a top 100 prospect though. Still, it is a lot to give up, but Puk is a good reliever

[USAFChief]

45 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Equivalent pay from the Twins system is Keaschall and another piece. Bowen maybe. That's nuts. This is an absolute fleecing.

If the Twins traded a guy that turned 21 at AAA while OPSing over 1.000 with real power for an average lefty reliever these boards would burn down. Regardless of that guys defensive limitations. 

And Chief would lead the charge. 

I'd make that trade without even blinking. Miami got little or nothing (not "Keaschall") for the best or second best LH reliever available (not "an average lefty"), with 2 more years of control.

Neither of those "prospects" are worth an actual MLB asset.

Winning in MLB. And winning now, is what matters. 

Prospect rankings mean less than nothing. There will be a different set next year. And the year after. 

It's exactly how bad Teams get and stay bad. Always dumping assets for shiny trinkets.  Lather, rinse, repeat. 

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I'd make that trade without even blinking. Miami got nothing for the best or second best LH reliever available, with 2 more years of control.

Neither of those "prospects" are worth an actual MLB asset.

Winning in MLB. And winning now, is what matters. 

Prospect rankings mean less than nothing. There will be a different set next year. And the year after. 

It's exactly how bad Teams get and stay bad. Always dumping assets for shiny trinkets.  Lather, rinse, repeat. 

 

 

We'll just disagree, but I love your consistency. No team can trade all their top prospects and succeed. 

[Mike Sixel]

31 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Equivalent pay from the Twins system is Keaschall and another piece. Bowen maybe. That's nuts. This is an absolute fleecing.

If the Twins traded a guy that turned 21 at AAA while OPSing over 1.000 with real power for an average lefty reliever these boards would burn down. Regardless of that guys defensive limitations. 

And Chief would lead the charge. 

Nah, Keaschell is higher rated, more like the next tier of twins minor leaguers....

[tony&rodney]

Keaschall is not a sure thing but Arizona did not give up a top 150 prospect. I have no idea why Falvey chose not to engage for Puk, but I believe the Twins could have made a better offer than what went to Miami. 

It could be that Falvey doesn't have much interest in making any trades at this time. It is a guessing game.

One thing that everyone can agree on is that nobody knows how each team values players, either their own or other guys.

[USAFChief]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

 No team can trade all their top prospects and succeed. 

But that's just it. Arizona DIDN'T trade their top prospects. 

They traded flotsam and jetsom. Lotto tickets. The first guy is maybe slightly intriguing, but so what? Every team has a half dozen similar lotto tickets. And the second player is minor league roster fill. 

I don't trade Walker Jenkins unless I'm getting a  player in return already at Walker's potential.

But outside of those truly special talents, give me proven MLB talent every time. 

 

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

But that's just it. Arizona DIDN'T trade their top prospects. 

They traded flotsam and jetsom. Lotto tickets. The first guy is maybe slightly intriguing, but so what? Every team has a half dozen similar lotto tickets. And the second player is minor league roster fill. 

I don't trade Walker Jenkins unless I'm getting a  player in return already at Walker's potential.

But outside of those truly special talents, give me proven MLB talent every time. 

 

Got it. 

I didn't read your reply that way. I'd likely do this exact trade, assuming the top guy is a hitter worse than Keaschell.... But it sure read like you'd deal Keaschell, and I'm not doing that. 

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Nah. Chief places little value on prospects.....

Nah, Chief places a higher value on telling people they are wrong.

1 hour ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Keaschall is a top 100 prospect though. Still, it is a lot to give up, but Puk is a good reliever

Keaschall just became a top 100 prospect and slid into the futures game under the radar, just like this guy.  Neither is a top 100 on fangraphs big board, they the Keaschall as a 45fv and DLS as 40fv as a DH.  Its closer than one would think but if you want to put a Schobel in his place I wouldn't argue much, the second guy would have to be better in that case.  Its a heavy price.  21 year olds raking in AAA have a lot of value.

57 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

It's exactly how bad Teams get and stay bad. Always dumping assets for shiny trinkets.  Lather, rinse, repeat. 

Did you just contradict yourself in the same post? 

[USAFChief]

4 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Nah, Chief places a higher value on telling people they are wrong.

If the shoe fits...

[Jocko87]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

If the shoe fits...

I've noticed a theme. 

[Cory Engelhardt]

24 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Nah, Chief places a higher value on telling people they are wrong.

Keaschall just became a top 100 prospect and slid into the futures game under the radar, just like this guy.  Neither is a top 100 on fangraphs big board, they the Keaschall as a 45fv and DLS as 40fv as a DH.  Its closer than one would think but if you want to put a Schobel in his place I wouldn't argue much, the second guy would have to be better in that case.  Its a heavy price.  21 year olds raking in AAA have a lot of value.

Did you just contradict yourself in the same post? 

Agree to disagree that he is similar to Keaschall. That strikeout rate of his can’t continue if he wants to have success in the majors

[Jocko87]

10 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Agree to disagree that he is similar to Keaschall. That strikeout rate of his can’t continue if he wants to have success in the majors

Don't get caught up in the names, I'm not making a player comparison.  Its two of our top 20 prospects with one of them out of the top ten.  For 2.5 years of AJ Puk.  I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, if I believed the new Puk is real, but not trusting relievers is kinda the default setting.

It does establish a range for Tanner Scott.  Rental but higher quality.  Is the cost roughly the same?  If he's the real target the Twins have some very valuable info to go after him now. 

If Tanner Scott is the only outcome of this deadline, I'd be tickled pink.

 

[Cory Engelhardt]

2 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Don't get caught up in the names, I'm not making a player comparison.  Its two of our top 20 prospects with one of them out of the top ten.  For 2.5 years of AJ Puk.  I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, if I believed the new Puk is real, but not trusting relievers is kinda the default setting.

It does establish a range for Tanner Scott.  Rental but higher quality.  Is the cost roughly the same?  If he's the real target the Twins have some very valuable info to go after him now. 

If Tanner Scott is the only outcome of this deadline, I'd be tickled pink.

 

Not all top 10’s are created equal. That’s mostly what I meant.
 

I don’t love Scott’s walk rate at all, but I get what you are saying. In that sense I would take Puk over Scott too. We will see

[USAFChief]

7 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Don't get caught up in the names, I'm not making a player comparison.  Its two of our top 20 prospects with one of them out of the top ten.  For 2.5 years of AJ Puk.  I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, if I believed the new Puk is real, but not trusting relievers is kinda the default setting.

It does establish a range for Tanner Scott.  Rental but higher quality.  Is the cost roughly the same?  If he's the real target the Twins have some very valuable info to go after him now. 

If Tanner Scott is the only outcome of this deadline, I'd be tickled pink.

 

Wait...you brought the names up. 

[Jocko87]

5 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Not all top 10’s are created equal. That’s mostly what I meant.
 

I don’t love Scott’s walk rate at all, but I get what you are saying. In that sense I would take Puk over Scott too. We will see

I think it would be more likely they trade out of the AAA non-prospect type for a rental reliever.  Kiersey or Helman might be more interesting to the Marlins than an A ball unknown.

[Jocko87]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Wait...you brought the names up. 

My most humblest apologies.  I gave far to much credit to reading comprehension skills on the internets.

[USAFChief]

10 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

My most humblest apologies.  I gave far to much credit to reading comprehension skills on the internets.

"I'm not making a player comparison"

 

"Equivalent pay from the Twins system is Keaschall and another piece. Bowen maybe. "

 

Youre not? 

[Jocko87]

5 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

"I'm not making a player comparison"

 

"Equivalent pay from the Twins system is Keaschall and another piece. Bowen maybe. "

 

Youre not? 

That's not a player comparison, its an asset value comparison.  Cory started talking strikeout rates and such which means nothing in this conversation.  I'm not going to spend hours on a post to make it so crystal clear the Chief can't find something to misconstrue.  I'll be at the golf course.

If you want to discuss what I'm saying, I'm all ears.  If you want ant-**** my posts for something to pick at, I'm not your guy.  You do not want my full attention.  I would suggest you stand down.

I hope that's clear enough.

[USAFChief]

7 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

That's not a player comparison, its an asset value comparison.  Cory started talking strikeout rates and such which means nothing in this conversation.  I'm not going to spend hours on a post to make it so crystal clear the Chief can't find something to misconstrue.  I'll be at the golf course.

If you want to discuss what I'm saying, I'm all ears.  If you want ant-**** my posts for something to pick at, I'm not your guy.  You do not want my full attention.  I would suggest you stand down.

I hope that's clear enough.

Hit em well.

[Jocko87]

5 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Hit em well.

I, did not. 🤮