The Positive of Reducing Payroll

[Cody Pirkl]

3 hours ago, Trov said:

Reducing payroll because you have too is never a great thing, but we are not in a position where we need to sell off contracts like Padres may be at.  However, if we are forced to play some of the young guys it could pan out, because in general they tend to be as effective as many vet FA end up being. One reason the players started to get annoyed when they were not getting paid because teams saw the production of a 24 year old rookie was about as good as a 33 year old vet in most cases. 

I agree, the Twins don't necessarily have to sell off contracts, it's just one way they could combat the reduced payroll. Polanco stands out to me because they have a lot of infield depth on it's way and already in the majors. If they had $10m more to spend it may be the difference in signing Lucas Giolito and signing Vince Velazquez. They'll just have to figure out what parts of the roster they want to allocate the most payroll to. 

[Cody Pirkl]

16 hours ago, Linus said:

Yea the whole notion is kind of silly. If you want to play young players then play them. You don’t need a payroll cut to justify it. 

While I agree, it's kind of like arguing that the Twins should have a $200m payroll. We can say that's what they should do, but it's just not how they operate and therefore isn't worth arguing. If they signed Carlos Santana this winter and he hit .150 while Yunior Severino had a 1.000 OPS in Triple-A, it's probably July before they even consider making a change. Unfortunately that's how they operate.

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Cody Pirkl said:

Counter point: Twins sign the next Joey Gallo at $12m this winter and maintain the same payroll. That player is one of the worst players in baseball and gets a guaranteed roster spot all season because they're a veteran making money. Meanwhile 2024's version of Matt Wallner is stuck in St. Paul for half of the season and it's a terrible look when they finally get called up and have clearly been ready for months. We just saw it play out in 2023, just playing devils advocate.

It's obviously unacceptable that the payroll appears to be getting cut. Sure these options already existed, but we know the Twins wouldn't have used them until they had no other choice if they signed potentially washed up veterans, regardless of performance on either end.

I'd rather the Twins go out and sign Cody Bellinger for CF or Aaron Nola to replace Sonny Gray, but it doesn't appear that's going to happen, so these are the players that likely stand to benefit. Some of them could turn into valuable MLB players. That's worth discussing.

Obviously, if you assume they make a bad signing the dollars don't help.  That risk obviously exists for any team.  Just look around the league at all the free agents who are mediocre or worse.  BTW .... There were 150 position players with a lower WAR and 230 with a lower wRC+.  The whole "one of the worst" players in the league is way over the top.

There is a bright side or upside of giving some young guys a shot.  It's definitely the silver the lining.  

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:05 PM, ashbury said:

Flip side is that none of the outside talent brought in exactly set the world on fire in 2023. 

Maybe the lesson, with Joey Gallo exhibit A as evidence, is that the FO ought not to be trusted to spend one penny on anyone not already on the roster.  

They've done pretty well with Pablo Lopez, Nelson Cruz, Joe Ryan, Sonny Gray, and Kenta Maeda.  They've also added Lewis, Jeffers, Julien, Ober, Lee, E-Rod, and Jenkins to the organization during their regime.

I'm not suggesting the FO should be trusted implicitly and/or completely, but if you really think they shouldn't be allowed to add players to the organization, then they quite obviously need to be fired.

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

They've done pretty well with Pablo Lopez, Nelson Cruz, Joe Ryan, Sonny Gray, and Kenta Maeda.  They've also added Lewis, Jeffers, Julien, Ober, Lee, E-Rod, and Jenkins to the organization during their regime.

I'm not suggesting the FO should be trusted implicitly and/or completely, but if you really think they shouldn't be allowed to add players to the organization, then they quite obviously need to be fired.

I'll have to locate a better emoticon than when I want to suggest that not every word is meant literally and exaggeration is being used as a different way to make a point. 

So, to be more direct, no, I don't advocate a house cleaning in the FO.  Last off-season after two losing seasons I felt that a big change had to be at least on the table if 2023 turned out to be more of the same.  I even felt this if they slid into the post-season due to a weak division but then made a quick exit in the post-season.  Fair or not, two entertaining wins over Toronto and then a creditable showing versus a good Houston team are enough for me to keep going where they're going.  My concern that the franchise was being driven into the ditch is lessened - I'll save for another time my remaining concern.

And no, my point isn't to hamstring Falvey and Levine's moves, beyond what ownership seems to be doing to them already for 2024 (the topic of the article).  It just seemed fair to point out the converse of the statistical ranking of the batters in 2023 was due in part to Gallo, Farmer, Castro being no great shakes with the bat. (Jury on Castro being a little bit out, but he's on the roster for his versatility.)  The ranking I was responding to was for 2023, and for hitting only (not overall position play), so there's no need to turn this into a retrospective of past years, nor of the pitching acquisitions.

It was a joke, to make a point.  Didn't land, oh well.  🦄

[Cody Pirkl]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:46 PM, Major League Ready said:

Obviously, if you assume they make a bad signing the dollars don't help.  That risk obviously exists for any team.  Just look around the league at all the free agents who are mediocre or worse.  BTW .... There were 150 position players with a lower WAR and 230 with a lower wRC+.  The whole "one of the worst" players in the league is way over the top.

There is a bright side or upside of giving some young guys a shot.  It's definitely the silver the lining.  

Gallo was absolutely one of the worst players in the league. He's a below average fielding outfielder at this point and about average at first base by DRS and Outs Above Average. There may be players with worst offensive stats, but teams will be willing to give just about anybody else a shot to play corner infield over Gallo who will be average at best defensively while posting a below average slash line (his was only positive because of the first two weeks of the season) while approaching a 50% strikeout rate. Not to mention his absolutely brutal baserunning. The Twins probably could have gotten the same production or better down the stretch from Yunior Severino if they'd switched him to first base earlier in the season. Gallo was pretty much the worst case scenario for how a big chunk of salary can be used. He did very little on the field to help the Twins win for the last 5 and a half months of the season.