Reusse: Put Duensing In The Pen And Leave Him There

[Brock Beauchamp]

If he's facing a lineup with 6-7 LH hitters, he could/would do just fine, I think. I think making Duensing into a specialist is the waste of a versatile arm.

 

Except that no team in their right mind would put that many lefties into the lineup against Duensing. It's not as if the starting pitcher is carried to the mound in a covered litter and unveiled mere moments before the first pitch is thrown. The opposing team knows who they're facing.

[adjacent]

Do you know what "starting" pitcher means?

It seems to me that what stringer bell is trying to sayis that, if you keep Duensing stretched to go more than one inning you could use him as a long reliever against a line-up that was prepared to face a righty.

[gunnarthor]

I understand the fear. I am dubious that there's any truth to it. I haven't been able to find anything on the interwebs that tests the hypothesis of a primer effect when there are multiple same-handed SPs in a rotation pitching back to back.

 

I don't think it had as much to do with same handiness as with 1) similar size/release point and 2) similar stuff. In 06, both pitchers were mostly fastball, slider, changeup guys with Liriano just a tick harder (God, I so wish he had become the pitcher we expected).

 

I have no idea how much getting 3 at bats against Liriano would help the next night against Santana. I suspect the attack plan for both pitchers was similar as well - get ahead with the fastball, kill with offspeed. etc etc. On the hitting side of it, Morneau has repeatedly said that hitting right behind Mauer allowed him, in the on deck circle, see how the pitcher pitched Mauer and he expected to be pitched similarly. He said it really helped him with LH pitching.

[Willihammer]

It seems to me that what stringer bell is trying to sayis that, if you keep Duensing stretched to go more than one inning you could use him as a long reliever against a line-up that was prepared to face a righty.

 

 

Right, if its the bottom of 7 and the Yankees are putting up Gardner, Ichiro, Nix/Jeter, Cano, Teixeira, and Granderson, you let Duensing go as long as he can even though Nix is righthanded and Tex will switch over also. Seems clear enough to me.

[Willihammer]

He said it really helped him with LH pitching.

 

Again, there would seem to be a disconnect between what these guys believe and the results.

 

I am open to the possibility that L-R-L-R is preferable but nobody seems to have any evidence besides anecdotes.

[stringer bell]

Except that no team in their right mind would put that many lefties into the lineup against Duensing. It's not as if the starting pitcher is carried to the mound in a covered litter and unveiled mere moments before the first pitch is thrown. The opposing team knows who they're facing.

I guess I'm still being misunderstood. I am saying that Duensing shouldn't be limited to being a LOOGy. I think he is a reliever, but capable of going 2+ innings on occasion. I am thinking that the Twins will have several short starts and BD should be available as a reliever to pitch long relief.

[Kwak]

The occasions where it's OK to use duensing for multiple innings are: the Twins are way behind, the Twins are way ahead, the bullpen has been way overstressed and someone has to "bite the bullet" and allow some rest to the group.

[beckmt]

Duensing is best suited as a lefty specialist. Unless he does differently this season, we can figure that will be his role, get a lefty out or face a righty that is inbetween 2 or 3 lefties. That puts him into a 7th or 8th inning role. Any talk of him being a starter is a waste.

[ashbury]

It seems to me that what stringer bell is trying to sayis that, if you keep Duensing stretched to go more than one inning you could use him as a long reliever against a line-up that was prepared to face a righty.

 

It's not unimportant. But if a lefty is facing a lineup prepared to face a righty, chances are the team is down by several runs already. You don't want too many of those "opportunities" or your season is lost; and if you don't have many of those then the choice of who does this pitching is fairly low down on Ryan's honey-do list for Gardenhire in a given season.

[CDog]

It's not as if the starting pitcher is carried to the mound in a covered litter and unveiled mere moments before the first pitch is thrown.

 

Oh my GOSH, but it totally should be like that! Although I'm picturing instead of a litter, something like a magician at an old-time carnival would use (or Gob's Aztec Tomb from "Arrested Development" for those who like newer references). And a lot of fanfare associated with the big reveal!!! This might be the best idea since Disco Demolition Night!

[ashbury]

I am open to the possibility that L-R-L-R is preferable but nobody seems to have any evidence besides anecdotes.

 

Since many managers like to rest players instead of playing them several games in a row, particularly catcher, it's even possible that L-R-L-R plays into the opponent's hands, instead of tempting them to use the same platoon players several days. I realize that at most it's a second-order effect.

[ashbury]

Oh my GOSH, but it totally should be like that! Although I'm picturing instead of a litter, something like a magician at an old-time carnival would use (or Gob's Aztec Tomb from "Arrested Development" for those who like newer references). And a lot of fanfare associated with the big reveal!!! This might be the best idea since Disco Demolition Night!

 

Having watched The Simpson's take on old-school pro wrestling last night, other grand entrances suggest themselves as part of the first-inning spectacle. Hipster Kevin Slowey being escorted to the mound by a bevy of horn-rimmed-glasses-wearing beauties, for example.

[gunnarthor]

Again, there would seem to be a disconnect between what these guys believe and the results.

 

I am open to the possibility that L-R-L-R is preferable but nobody seems to have any evidence besides anecdotes.

 

Well, with Morneau, we did see an improvement against LH hitters - esp relief pitchers. Whether that improvement was going to happen anyway, SSS or because of seeing similar patterns in Mauer's at bats, I don't know.

[TheLeviathan]

The occasions where it's OK to use duensing for multiple innings are: the Twins are way behind, the Twins are way ahead, the bullpen has been way overstressed and someone has to "bite the bullet" and allow some rest to the group.

 

Right....which would make him a long-relief "specialist". I don't understand why we're trying so hard to get out of a box that makes him a useful player.

[FrodaddyG]

It seems to me that what stringer bell is trying to sayis that, if you keep Duensing stretched to go more than one inning you could use him as a long reliever against a line-up that was prepared to face a righty.

Unfortunately, the rules of baseball force you to take out a specialist after one inning. You know, FORCES you. That's the rule...

[bird]

It's not so much the "people here" and their proposals that are bothersome, it's Twins management. That they still are proposing to possibly pull out this Duensing LHSP Chestnut, shows they don't understand sabre-reality and have failed in the offseason to secure a cheap rotational depth option at LHSP, while potentially leaving the Bullpen short a genuinely-proven valuable asset from the port-side.

 

These guys were all very gettable with just a hint of urgency on the part of the Twins: Joe Saunders, John Lannan, Jeff Francis for $1.5M, (Paul Maholm last year- the Twins could have locked him up for 2 years cheaper than Correia).

 

This quickly has become a favorite jokism for me: the Twins just don't understand sabre-reality.

[jokin]

This quickly has become a favorite jokism for me: the Twins just don't understand sabre-reality.

 

I'm pleased that you're amused. Now that we have that out of the way, could you now explain to me the Twins FO rationale, and the numbers they are looking at, for contemplating making Duesning a starter again? And if another left-handed starter was truly needed, why Duensing qualified over the other available FA candidates?

[twinsnorth49]

This quickly has become a favorite jokism for me: the Twins just don't understand sabre-reality.

 

Contemplating using Duensing as a starter again isn't a very good counter arguement against that assertion however.

[Guest USAFChief]

This quickly has become a favorite jokism for me: the Twins just don't understand sabre-reality.

Well, as recently as 2010, Rob Antony couldn't even tell you what the acronyms "FIP" or "BABIP" stand for, much less whether or not he thought them useful, so perhaps the joke's on you.

Rob Antony » AaronGleeman.com » Aaron Gleeman's Baseball and Minnesota Twins Blog

[Willihammer]

If the Twins even knew what BABIP was, they might not have signed Nishioka and his ~.400 BABIP inflated Japanese batting crown.