Twins fire Dougie Baseball

[drjim]

One side may indeed have a lot to hide. They hide the negative side of the employee that they did not renew the contract of. They are doing him a favor. There is no reason for the FO to torch him. They chose not to renew a contract, That is all the more information that there needs to be

To add to this, reading all the quotes, it's not clear Mientkiewicz is especially outraged he got fired or is unclear on the reason, his main complaint seems to be how it went down. Maybe the front office could have done it differently, but they really gain nothing by saying much to the media.

[biggentleben]

 

Sure, when they win something, fan bases forgive everything. But they haven't won anything yet and their big in-season decision was to waive the white flag at the deadline, pissing off fans and players. We're a long way from them being able to ignore the fan base.

 

No, they didn't wave the white flag. They traded off pending free agents. Waving the white flag would have been going all-out and moving guys like Santana and Dozier. With the value of Garcia and Kintzler exponentially lessened on August 1 vs. July 31, you make that move if there's any question at all about whether or not you'll hang around all season. There was legit reason to question, they made the moves, neither of which was a move that decimated the opportunity for the 2017 team to compete.

[biggentleben]

 

Um, you do realize this is a straw man and doesn't address any of the sentiment in my posts, do you not?

 

Because that sentiment has been addressed ad nauseum, and you simply want to keep banging the "he's too important to go by standard procedure" drum.

[biggentleben]

 

That sounds like an errant supposition to me. If a journalist calls you and you agree to talk to him, is that one going to the media..... or the media coming to you? I believe there is a big difference.

 

You're 100% certain the initiation began with Souhan, not with Doug?

[biggentleben]

 

I would doubt that there would be an HR rule that states you can't tell someone there contract is being renewed. I doubt there would be a rule that states the contractor's immediate supervisor  can't tell the controctor their contract is going to be renewed.

 

Okay, and that doesn't change anything about the point I was making. There would be procedures in place as a current contract employee if he was informed that his contract wouldn't be renewed. That's all I'm stating. Others are insisting the Twins would not have to worry about procedure on an employee they're dismissing and should have had Falvine make the call. I'm just saying that could have been quite inappropriate according to their procedural rules within the organization, fame be darned.

[old nurse]

 

Okay, and that doesn't change anything about the point I was making. There would be procedures in place as a current contract employee if he was informed that his contract wouldn't be renewed. That's all I'm stating. Others are insisting the Twins would not have to worry about procedure on an employee they're dismissing and should have had Falvine make the call. I'm just saying that could have been quite inappropriate according to their procedural rules within the organization, fame be darned.

You are making a big leap thinking that there are written rules on that.

[biggentleben]

 

You are making a big leap thinking that there are written rules on that.

 

I guess that every organization that I've been part of has had set rules on how contract notification works with a contract employee. That includes multiple sports franchises, though admittedly not any MLB franchises. Lawsuits have made these sorts of things nearly a requirement of employing a contract worker, sadly. I'm not saying for sure they have such procedures laid out, but with the issues of lawsuits, it'd be surprising that they didn't, especially with Falvey/Levine at the helm, as that's one thing that both have been praised for is their attention to detail in an organization in talking with people around the game.

[old nurse]

 

I guess that every organization that I've been part of has had set rules on how contract notification works with a contract employee. That includes multiple sports franchises, though admittedly not any MLB franchises. Lawsuits have made these sorts of things nearly a requirement of employing a contract worker, sadly. I'm not saying for sure they have such procedures laid out, but with the issues of lawsuits, it'd be surprising that they didn't, especially with Falvey/Levine at the helm, as that's one thing that both have been praised for is their attention to detail in an organization in talking with people around the game.

Major league baseball has never rot renewed a contract nor told a coach or manager that they were done after a season was over. 

[spinowner]

 

The party that doesn't want to talk, usually has the most to hide, and usually would look the worst if they do weigh in. 

This assumption is not valid in my opinion. In many cases the party that doesn't want to talk is protecting the privacy of those who are entitled to that privacy.

[spinowner]

 

You are making a big leap thinking that there are written rules on that.

 

 

I guess that every organization that I've been part of has had set rules on how contract notification works with a contract employee. That includes multiple sports franchises, though admittedly not any MLB franchises. Lawsuits have made these sorts of things nearly a requirement of employing a contract worker, sadly. I'm not saying for sure they have such procedures laid out, but with the issues of lawsuits, it'd be surprising that they didn't, especially with Falvey/Levine at the helm, as that's one thing that both have been praised for is their attention to detail in an organization in talking with people around the game.

In many organizations the rules are not just rules, they are laws. That particularly applies to government, health care, and legal issues. Now, such laws obviously do not apply to MLB, but I think more and more organizations of all types see the value of such policies and incorporate them into their rules as they see fit. And these rules are almost always in writing so everyone can read and know exactly how the organization will handle issues that may arise. And that's a good thing. To me it would be a surprise if Falvey (and Jim Pohlad) were not developing written policies for everything about how the team operates.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Because that sentiment has been addressed ad nauseum, and you simply want to keep banging the "he's too important to go by standard procedure" drum.

You haven't addressed it...in fact all you've done is drone on about Doug's popularity and how it supposedly invalidates the criticism for the way the firing was handled. You keep hiding behind the "this is how the corporate world works," mantra when it's widely accepted that professional sports do not operate under the same guidelines. 

[old nurse]

 

In many organizations the rules are not just rules, they are laws. That particularly applies to government, health care, and legal issues. Now, such laws obviously do not apply to MLB, but I think more and more organizations of all types see the value of such policies and incorporate them into their rules as they see fit. And these rules are almost always in writing so everyone can read and know exactly how the organization will handle issues that may arise. And that's a good thing. To me it would be a surprise if Falvey (and Jim Pohlad) were not developing written policies for everything about how the team operates.

Carl Pohlad made a lot of money by taking over companies, gutting staff, gutting the company.  I am sure he was careful about how he did it. Extra lawyers cost money. The only dollar bills he did not want were the ones he shared with Irwin Jacobs. I am fairly certain old Carl set up protection from employees in the 80s and adjusted with any new labor laws.

[old nurse]

 

To add to this, reading all the quotes, it's not clear Mientkiewicz is especially outraged he got fired or is unclear on the reason, his main complaint seems to be how it went down. Maybe the front office could have done it differently, but they really gain nothing by saying much to the media.

Falvey has been considered an expert in pitching. There are his theories, not shared much with the public, on pitcher development. Barriers to that vision are going to be removed. Those that adjust to the new way, keep a job. Watch who goes, watch who stays. Pitching coaches, managers, and scouts have to buy into the system.  The club does have a thing about loyalty.  Falvey would have to understand that when he took the job, This off season will be the big change, even if it is only employee thinking.

[Craig Arko]

To me it would be a surprise if Falvey (and Jim Pohlad) were not developing written policies for everything about how the team operates.

Typically it would be legal and HR staff producing those documents. CEO would sign-off on the finished product.

[spinowner]

 

Typically it would be legal and HR staff producing those documents. CEO would sign-off on the finished product.

I agree that almost all of the non-baseball matters would be delegated, but I picture Falvey formulating most of the baseball policies himself. He has Levine to handle the traditional GM duties of negotiating contracts, etc, which frees him to take his vision of a successful baseball operation and make it into reality.

Edited to note that with these posts I am getting tangential to the topic of this thread. My apologies to the moderators.

[Major League Ready]

 

You haven't addressed it...in fact all you've done is drone on about Doug's popularity and how it supposedly invalidates the criticism for the way the firing was handled. You keep hiding behind the "this is how the corporate world works," mantra when it's widely accepted that professional sports do not operate under the same guidelines. 

 

Perhaps professional sports should operate under the same guidelines and the fact is that baseball is hiring a lot more corporate types for this very reason.  The industry has figured out the baseball guys were lacking some skills and often had poor policies and practices or lack thereof.

 

Unless you have been a baseball executive, you don't really know how these things are handled.  I would add that GB's response that this is not how things should be handled by a business is in fact a direct and to the point response.  All of the subsequent explanation of why it is common practice validates his response.   You are welcome to the opinion that you have a superior understanding to all of those corporations outside baseball as to how this should have been handled but this does not diminish the substance of GB's response, IMO.

[Squirrel]

This thread has gone way off topic now into the ridiculous of arguing differing philosophical business practices. While some might argue that it is related to the topic, it no longer is.

 

If someone has any thing new to report on the specific issue of DM, and not giving your opinions on it yet again, fine. If not, move along.