Christensen: Minnesota Twins Pitching Hope Are On Horizon

[John Bonnes]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/166652456.html

 

Joe takes a look at five pitchers we've been talking about a lot on this board: Berrios, Gibson, Hendriks, Fernandez & Vasquez.

 

His description of Fernandez is underwhelming. I'm not sure why he included him with these others.

[greengoblinrulz]

why are they talkin about limiting Gibson to 100IP next yr???? Gotta be a misprint, doesnt it??

[Roaddog]

If we are relying on Hernandez as guy to step up, we are in trouble, IMO.

[JB_Iowa]

PLEASE don't let them think that all the Twins need is for these five players to mature.

[TheLeviathan]

I thought this was interesting when they started with Berrios......and then I saw the rest of the list.

[righty8383]

Berrios and Gibson are the only 2 on that list that have a chance to be above average big league pitchers. Hendriks could be average at best. The other two...meh.

[Roaddog]

I thought this was interesting when they started with Berrios......and then I saw the rest of the list.

 

 

I agree with Gibson too, but the rest of the list? Yuck

[DaveW]

Berrios and Gibson are the only 2 on that list that have a chance to be above average big league pitchers. Hendriks could be average at best. The other two...meh.

 

Disagree, Hendriks has the upside to be a solid #2 or a good #3.

 

Berrios and Gibson both have the ability to be great #2's or a poor mans #1.

[cr9617]

I almost choked on my coffee this morning while reading this article. This list puts a gleam in Antony's eye??? There is just no reason to have faith in this FO or any of the key decision makers.

 

This team won't finish a season above .500 for another 4 or 5 years.

[DaveW]

Few things:

 

The Twins never said they are counting on all 5 of those guys, their are just 5 potential options in the farm system.

If 2 of those 5 can become solid pitchers the rotation suddenly doesn't look as nasty as it does now.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I almost choked on my coffee this morning while reading this article. This list puts a gleam in Antony's eye??? There is just no reason to have faith in this FO or any of the key decision makers.

 

This team won't finish a season above .500 for another 4 or 5 years.

 

I am so bloody sick and tired of reading this line or something like it on the forums.

 

The Minnesota Twins were the most consistently successful small market team of the 2000s. They made the playoffs more often than not and while they struggled in the postseason, overall they posted one of the better records in all of baseball for the decade.

 

So why shouldn't we have a little faith in the front office? Because the team had two awful seasons? Because of that, we should ignore the entire decade the preceded it?

 

Jesus... People around here need to step off the ledge and take in a little perspective. Yes, the Twins are bad right now but their farm system is on the rebound and help is on the way. They have a solid core of young-ish players. They have money to spend. Stop cherry-picking the past two years of horrible baseball and ignoring the ten years that came before it.

[Top Gun]

The past is gone at last and the Twins will now stay in last. The F. O. don't care they get there money.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The past is gone at last and the Twins will now stay in last. The F. O. don't care they get there money.

 

I didn't know the front office received profit-sharing.

 

You obviously hate the Twins; well over 90% of your posts are overwhelmingly negative and I never see you contribute anything substantive to the conversation. Why are you even here?

[greengoblinrulz]

I almost choked on my coffee this morning while reading this article. This list puts a gleam in Antony's eye??? There is just no reason to have faith in this FO or any of the key decision makers.

 

This team won't finish a season above .500 for another 4 or 5 years.

 

I am so bloody sick and tired of reading this line or something like it on the forums.

 

The Minnesota Twins were the most consistently successful small market team of the 2000s. They made the playoffs more often than not and while they struggled in the postseason, overall they posted one of the better records in all of baseball for the decade.

 

So why shouldn't we have a little faith in the front office? Because the team had two awful seasons? Because of that, we should ignore the entire decade the preceded it?

 

Jesus... People around here need to step off the ledge and take in a little perspective. Yes, the Twins are bad right now but their farm system is on the rebound and help is on the way. They have a solid core of young-ish players. They have money to spend. Stop cherry-picking the past two years of horrible baseball and ignoring the ten years that came before it.

 

Can argue that, but I would say its OAK & Tampa w/MN 3rd. 5 one & dones in playoffs dropps em for me. Oak had 5 series & won only one, but had a much lower payroll & couldnt keep their key players. Tampa making the Series gives is to them IMO

[PseudoSABR]

I almost choked on my coffee this morning while reading this article. This list puts a gleam in Antony's eye??? There is just no reason to have faith in this FO or any of the key decision makers.

 

This team won't finish a season above .500 for another 4 or 5 years.

 

I am so bloody sick and tired of reading this line or something like it on the forums.

 

The Minnesota Twins were the most consistently successful small market team of the 2000s. They made the playoffs more often than not and while they struggled in the postseason, overall they posted one of the better records in all of baseball for the decade.

 

So why shouldn't we have a little faith in the front office? Because the team had two awful seasons? Because of that, we should ignore the entire decade the preceded it?

 

Jesus... People around here need to step off the ledge and take in a little perspective. Yes, the Twins are bad right now but their farm system is on the rebound and help is on the way. They have a solid core of young-ish players. They have money to spend. Stop cherry-picking the past two years of horrible baseball and ignoring the ten years that came before it.

+1.

[TheLeviathan]

I thought this was interesting when they started with Berrios......and then I saw the rest of the list.

 

 

I agree with Gibson too, but the rest of the list? Yuck

 

It wasn't just that. If you were playing the "Which one of these guys is not like the others?" it's CLEARLY Berrios. So I started reading an article, flipped a few pages, and it's like the damn author changed.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Can argue that, but I would say its OAK & Tampa w/MN 3rd. 5 one & dones in playoffs dropps em for me. Oak had 5 series & won only one, but had a much lower payroll & couldnt keep their key players. Tampa making the Series gives is to them IMO

 

Tampa was awful until the ninth year of the decade. Oakland didn't do much after the third year of the decade (2006 was their lone postseason run after 2002).

 

Minnesota, on the other hand, didn't have as many flashy teams but they were competitive almost every year and made the playoffs more often than any other small market team.

 

Either way, we're splitting hairs. The Twins were a very competitive team for an entire decade, something no other small market team achieved. Ignoring that because they've had two truly awful seasons is ridiculous, especially when their farm system is coming on as strong as it has over the past 12 months. The organization still needs pitching (and lots of it) but this team has a lot of bats on the way and few of them are fading as they reach the high minors (Arcia has turned into a monster, Hicks has started to turn into the guy we all hoped he'd become).

[stringer bell]

I almost choked on my coffee this morning while reading this article. This list puts a gleam in Antony's eye??? There is just no reason to have faith in this FO or any of the key decision makers.

 

This team won't finish a season above .500 for another 4 or 5 years.

 

I am so bloody sick and tired of reading this line or something like it on the forums.

 

The Minnesota Twins were the most consistently successful small market team of the 2000s. They made the playoffs more often than not and while they struggled in the postseason, overall they posted one of the better records in all of baseball for the decade.

 

So why shouldn't we have a little faith in the front office? Because the team had two awful seasons? Because of that, we should ignore the entire decade the preceded it?

 

Jesus... People around here need to step off the ledge and take in a little perspective. Yes, the Twins are bad right now but their farm system is on the rebound and help is on the way. They have a solid core of young-ish players. They have money to spend. Stop cherry-picking the past two years of horrible baseball and ignoring the ten years that came before it.

I think the Twins will be better in the next couple years, but you have to also point out how hard and long the fall from grace has been. They have more money to spend than they ever did during the Metrodome years, so they should be able to put a representative product on the field. Last year's team was not. This year's team has no starting pitching to speak of.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think the Twins will be better in the next couple years, but you have to also point out how hard and long the fall from grace has been. They have more money to spend than they ever did during the Metrodome years, so they should be able to put a representative product on the field. Last year's team was not. This year's team has no starting pitching to speak of.

 

It's been bad, there's no denying that.

 

But to say "there's no reason to have confidence in the FO" is just dumb. I don't know how else to respond to that kind of thinking. The front office made a bunch of mistakes from 2006-2010 and that led to some of the mess we're dealing with today but they also had a healthy dose of bad luck and a general manager who made moves to the ML roster seemingly at random. That GM is now gone and the guy who built the first two waves of successful Twins prospects is back at the helm.

 

Will he succeed? Dunno. But I'm going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. He hasn't been back on the job for even 12 months yet.

[3up3down]

Mr vodkadave, you really see Hendricks as a #2. A #2 starter has 2 plus pitches...Hendricks has none..his FB is below avg at 87-91 with little movement and not as much sink as everyone says (same as Blackburn)..curve is average at best,change is below avg, so how do you come up with a #2 starter...#5 or long reliever maybe....Gibson has a shot at possibly being. A good #3.. this is why I said they should have gotten lower level high upside proects for liriano & span...because they don't have a #1 or 2 in the system...

[Seth Stohs]

I still stand behind my thoughts that Liam Hendriks can be Scott Baker-like if things go well, and that's a solid #2 (when healthy). Most likely, I think he's a solid #3/4 which, by the way, is pretty important on a big league roster. Hendriks FB is mainly 89-91, but he can hit 94. (same as Baker) He has two good breaking balls (that we have not seen consistently with the Twins but doesn't mean he doesn't have)... and he's got a good changeup. Who knows if he will reach his full potential, but if he does, then he can be Baker-like.

 

It's encouraging to hear that Gibson has added a mph or two of velocity since his TJ surgery. His ceiling before surgery was quality #2, and added velocity to go with the sink is a positive.

 

Hernandez - I can't say that I know anything more about him than the stats, but I'm not willing to say he can't be solid. What were most saying about Scott Diamond this spring? If Hernandez can hit 91 on the fastball and have a second pitch, he can be a solid reliever... If he's got a 3rd good pitch, he'll be a solid big leaguer. He's 23 and in AAA. That's pretty good!

 

Berrios - He's just super exciting right now, and I can't wait to see how well he develops!

 

Vasquez - he's old, but that's OK. In 3 years with the D-Backs, tons of walks, but since he's been made a starter ,he's been terrific, with much better control.

[Buck Nasty]

I have to admit, I was eager to read the article after the title caught my eye. But wow...there has to be more/better guys somewhere in our minor system isn't there? Berrios is way too new to rate - see Shooter Hunt. Hernandez - his track record shows there probably isn't too much to get excited about. Vasquez is pretty much your classic 28 year old minor league free agent guy i.e. Walters and Deduno.

 

So basically out of the five noted, I like Gibson and Hendricks (surprised so many are down on Liam already). But the other guys were a reach IMO.

 

What about BJ Hermsen? And if the starting pitching depth is this bad, would it make sense to try Swarzak as a starter again? I know he struggled in limited opportunity this year, but he did ok last year in 11 starts (4.52 ERA and 1.29 WHIP). That would be a solid #2 on this year's rotation -lol.

[cr9617]

I almost choked on my coffee this morning while reading this article. This list puts a gleam in Antony's eye??? There is just no reason to have faith in this FO or any of the key decision makers.

 

This team won't finish a season above .500 for another 4 or 5 years.

 

I am so bloody sick and tired of reading this line or something like it on the forums.

 

The Minnesota Twins were the most consistently successful small market team of the 2000s. They made the playoffs more often than not and while they struggled in the postseason, overall they posted one of the better records in all of baseball for the decade.

 

So why shouldn't we have a little faith in the front office? Because the team had two awful seasons? Because of that, we should ignore the entire decade the preceded it?

 

Jesus... People around here need to step off the ledge and take in a little perspective. Yes, the Twins are bad right now but their farm system is on the rebound and help is on the way. They have a solid core of young-ish players. They have money to spend. Stop cherry-picking the past two years of horrible baseball and ignoring the ten years that came before it.

 

oh please. You can bury your head in the sand if you wish, but a lot us of here aren't buying it. The FO has made one blunder after another in recent years, both large and small. When times were good they were pretty quick to pat themselves on the back and remind everyone how cute and special they are. They were never all that special. Winning the Central is great, but it's not all THAT great. It's consistently the weakest division in baseball. Every other team that won the Central when the Twins did not, all had more success than did the Twins in the postseason. All those Central division banners ring somewhat hollow when you can't win a game, much less a series in the postseason.

 

Solid core of young-ish players? Who??

[drivlikejehu]

The Twins' pitching situation, throughout the organization, is beyond terrible- and Antony or anyone else in the front office shouldn't be anything other than embarrassed.

[twinswon1991]

The Twins' pitching situation, throughout the organization, is beyond terrible- and Antony or anyone else in the front office shouldn't be anything other than embarrassed.

 

Right. I can't believe anyone is defending Terry Ryan or any other member of the scouting/FO group based on past performance. Sure the Twins were the best of the worst for 5+ years in the central but they have only won 1 more playoff series than the Royals or Pirates in that decade. THe reality is that TR and his clueless scouts spent the last decade slacking off and failing to draft, scout and develop well. That is the main reason the Twins are in this tough spot. The fact they managed to win the worst division in baseball several times only to get embarrassed in the playoffs is nothing to hang your hats on.

 

This team has zero chance of competing until there is an infusion of new blood in the GM Chair, scouting department and medical/training staff.

[Brock Beauchamp]

oh please. You can bury your head in the sand if you wish, but a lot us of here aren't buying it. The FO has made one blunder after another in recent years, both large and small. When times were good they were pretty quick to pat themselves on the back and remind everyone how cute and special they are. They were never all that special. Winning the Central is great, but it's not all THAT great. It's consistently the weakest division in baseball. Every other team that won the Central when the Twins did not, all had more success than did the Twins in the postseason. All those Central division banners ring somewhat hollow when you can't win a game, much less a series in the postseason.

 

Solid core of young-ish players? Who??

 

Yes, the front office made several blunders... And most of them weren't on JR's watch. Ramos/Capps, the Johan trade (admittedly, Smith was put into a difficult position there), Hardy/Hoey, Nishioka, etc... Smith did a great job with international signings, a pretty good job with the draft, and a completely abominable job with the Major League roster. The only move he made that was considered a good one by analysts was the Hardy for Gomez trade, which he later reversed with the ridiculous Hardy for Hoey trade.

 

You don't think the Twins have a solid core of young-ish players? What do you think Scott Diamond, Joe Mauer, Denard Span, Ben Revere, and Glen Perkins are? They certainly need more pitching but their hitting core is pretty good. Willingham is the only guy who is old enough to show a significant decline at this point.

[Vervehound]

the fact is, rotations rarely go according to plan. even the braves have had their best laid plans fall to pieces with guys like minor and jurrjens not panning out and teheran regressing. the organizations with most pitching still have to cobble together pieces of their rotation and the twins will be little different. that list is underwhelming, but if diamond can become a solid back end optin and gibson and hendriks come through, you'll feel a lot better about this team a year from now. not to mention that hopefully the blackburn experiment will be at an end and you have classic addition by subtraction.

 

the real struggle for this organization has been its abysmal track record of drafting college arms post-2005 draft. 2011 was a deep, deep draft and the twins haul of michael, boyd, harrison, boer, williams, summers and grimes in the top five rounds looks horrible a year later. that was a blown draft and the preceding drafts were not a lot better. perhaps the real issue here is the scouting department?

[Fire Dan Gladden]

oh please. You can bury your head in the sand if you wish, but a lot us of here aren't buying it. The FO has made one blunder after another in recent years, both large and small. When times were good they were pretty quick to pat themselves on the back and remind everyone how cute and special they are. They were never all that special. Winning the Central is great, but it's not all THAT great. It's consistently the weakest division in baseball. Every other team that won the Central when the Twins did not, all had more success than did the Twins in the postseason. All those Central division banners ring somewhat hollow when you can't win a game, much less a series in the postseason.

 

Solid core of young-ish players? Who??

 

Yes, the front office made several blunders... And most of them weren't on JR's watch. Ramos/Capps, the Johan trade (admittedly, Smith was put into a difficult position there), Hardy/Hoey, Nishioka, etc... Smith did a great job with international signings, a pretty good job with the draft, and a completely abominable job with the Major League roster. The only move he made that was considered a good one by analysts was the Hardy for Gomez trade, which he later reversed with the ridiculous Hardy for Hoey trade.

 

You don't think the Twins have a solid core of young-ish players? What do you think Scott Diamond, Joe Mauer, Denard Span, Ben Revere, and Glen Perkins are? They certainly need more pitching but their hitting core is pretty good. Willingham is the only guy who is old enough to show a significant decline at this point.

 

You go Brock! I love the fact that the Twins are in rebuilding mode right now and everybody is calling for TR head. Lest people forget that rebuilding is one of his strengths? If the pitching injuries did not happen this year this team would have been much more competitive (shhh... nobody wants to talk about that).

 

People are all over how good the Twins are when they do great and throw everybody under the bus when the are not. Its just too bad the same dozen negative posters keep repeating the "fire Terry, fire Gardy" mantra. It is old and stale. I sincerely hope that when this team is .500 next year and competing for the division within the next 2 that these same folks will admit their inadequacies and retire from posting.

[roger]

I almost choked on my coffee this morning while reading this article. This list puts a gleam in Antony's eye??? There is just no reason to have faith in this FO or any of the key decision makers.

 

This team won't finish a season above .500 for another 4 or 5 years.

 

I am so bloody sick and tired of reading this line or something like it on the forums.

 

The Minnesota Twins were the most consistently successful small market team of the 2000s. They made the playoffs more often than not and while they struggled in the postseason, overall they posted one of the better records in all of baseball for the decade.

 

So why shouldn't we have a little faith in the front office? Because the team had two awful seasons? Because of that, we should ignore the entire decade the preceded it?

 

Jesus... People around here need to step off the ledge and take in a little perspective. Yes, the Twins are bad right now but their farm system is on the rebound and help is on the way. They have a solid core of young-ish players. They have money to spend. Stop cherry-picking the past two years of horrible baseball and ignoring the ten years that came before it.

 

+1, thank you!

[Seth Stohs]

the real struggle for this organization has been its abysmal track record of drafting college arms post-2005 draft. 2011 was a deep, deep draft and the twins haul of michael, boyd, harrison, boer, williams, summers and grimes in the top five rounds looks horrible a year later. that was a blown draft and the preceding drafts were not a lot better. perhaps the real issue here is the scouting department?

 

You're ready to give up on a draft class that is one year old?? I wasn't high on Michael, and definitely not a Grimes guy, but there is no reason to give up on Williams, Boer and Summers yet, and certainly WAY too early to give up on Boyd and Harrison.

 

And, let's see how Gibson does, and how Wimmers returns next year midseason before completely giving up on ALL college pitchers drafted since 2005.