Take a deep breath

[nicksaviking]

I hate to be that guy, but this team still isn't going to bring home a trophy without better young starters. Dozier or Santana might bring back something very promising but neither is getting moved if the team is flirting with .500 all year.

 

I don't want more one and done playoff series; I'm not going to be satisfied and content just getting to the post season, they need to do it right this time. Doing it right often means making sacrifices, which aren't popular or painfree.

[KirbyDome89]

I get that 3 starts to begin the season is a small sample but at this point I think it is painfully obvious what the Twins are going to get from Gibson. I don't see an advantage to running him out for two more starts before making a switch. If I'm given the option between Berrios and Gibson I would have made the call yesterday...

 

That said I do wonder if the Twins will keep him around for a while longer because they don't trust Hughes.

[nokomismod]

 

I don't think you pull the plug on Gibson, but it might be getting to the point that we need to drastically alter expectations. He's probably just a 4-5 guy, which provides value, but also means he'll soon get priced out of being a guy you want to roster.

When I watch Gibson now, I keep thinking Nick Blackburn.

[Doomtints]

Gibson has always struggled in April and he has always done well in May and June. The doom and gloom for Gibson is premature. Wake me up in 6 weeks if he is still having trouble.

[yarnivek1972]

 

The Twins are 7-6.

 

Using pythag record, the Twins should be 9-4.

 

Using BaseRuns record, the Twins should be 9-4.

 

The Twins have lost one game by more than two runs. One game.

 

On April 1st, I would have been quite happy with a 7-6 record.

 

Does this team have problems? Of course it does. I'd rotate at least one guy, maybe two, off the roster and call up at least Vargas.

 

Are 3-1 losses frustrating? Yes. Are 3-1 losses even more frustrating when the Twins score a single run on nine hits and four walks? Yes, of course, but that happens. It's baseball.

 

Grossman is teeing off on the ball. Brian Dozier is being Brian Dozier. Sano is a beast. Kepler is the player we hoped he would be. Rosario looks to be taking important steps forward. Polanco is also taking steps forward. Escobar is a very solid backup. Castro has been a godsend for the pitching staff.

 

So... Deep breaths.

Not sure what "steps forward" Rosario is taking in your view.  The 3 walks?  That's still low compared to the rest of the roster.  Back up catcher Chris Gimenez has 4.

 

Regarding the rest of the topic, why are so many down on Tonkin to the point that they think Gibson should replace him in the pen?  He has yet to allow a run. What about Gibson's past or make up makes anyone think Gibson can be at least as good as Tonkin as a reliever?

 

Duffey in higher leverage situations?  Not against it.  Obviously, he's flourishing in his current role.  It would be worth a try.  His K rate is still a little on the low side compared with most late inning relievers.  So, you really can't trust that he will succeed coming into situations with runners on base.  That's an important part of a late inning reliever's job.  Indeed, perhaps the MOST important.

 

Change I would make now:

 

Gibson out.  Berrios in.  AAA or release? Don't care as long as he isn't taking the spot of a guy with actual upside.

 

2 or 3 weeks from now:  Rosario out, Santana out.  Granite and Vargas in.  I think the next domino to drop on the pitching side might end up being Pressly or possibly Belisle to go down to 12.  Who to bring up is an interesting question.  There's a few candidates.  Matt Hague, Ben Paulsen, Daniel Palka most notably could fill a part time role.  Hague and Paulsen have MLB experience.  Ehire Adrianza is heading to a rehab assignment.  So, either he'll be added to the 25 man roster or he will have to be taken off the 40 man.  So that opens up another spot for someone.

 

 

[Taildragger8791]

 

Gibson has always struggled in April and he has always done well in May and June. The doom and gloom for Gibson is premature. Wake me up in 6 weeks if he is still having trouble.

 

Sample size of 2 for May pitching stats, and 3 for June. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that pattern holding weight. By the time you wait it out he may have handed the team several more losses and wracked the bullpen.

[drjim]

 

When I watch Gibson now, I keep thinking Nick Blackburn.

 

Probably correct, which is still a pitcher that provides value while cheap.

[drjim]

 

This is surprising. His struggles are not new. He overcame his struggles before, even if for only a little while. He can overcome them again.

 

No need to be depressed about Buxton. He is still lost at the plate (which I expected) but he is even better defensively. He is providing value, just not at the top of the lineup. The Twins should have kept the pressure off and kept him 7th or 8th in the lineup until he got into a groove, but he will get over it.

 

This is a struggle on a different level, and it's his third season. For the first time I am not confident that he will pull himself out.

 

I didn't expect huge production this year, but I expected a step forward, and it has instead been a huge step backwards.

[yarnivek1972]

 

Gibson is easily the most frustrating player to watch on this team, and I was thinking his adjustments that he showed in the spring were going to help him take a step forward. Unfortunately, it looks like he is what he is at this point.

He's lucky that he even was tendered a contract for 2017.  He is simply unable to execute the pitches he needs to execute.  He knows he has to keep the ball down to have any chance.  He said as much in an interview after his second start.  But he can't do it consistently enough.  He has faced 67 batters this season.  23 have hit ground balls.  32 have hit fly balls, 13 of which were line drives.  8 extra base hits, including 4 HR in 14 IP.  Gibson is not throwing GROUND balls.  He's throwing MEAT balls.  It isn't just this year.  His G/F ratio has been trending the wrong way 3 years running.  He simply isn't good enough at what he is supposed to do.  That's life.  It isn't personal.  He just doesn't have any way to help the team.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Not sure what "steps forward" Rosario is taking in your view.  The 3 walks?

Sure, if you glance at his counting stats and call it a day.

 

Rosario is making more contact all around. He's swinging at fewer pitches outside the zone, making contact with more pitches outside the zone when he does swing, and missing fewer pitches in the zone.

 

As a result, he's walking more and striking out less.

 

He's doing everything we've wanted him to do, the problem right now is that he's hamstrung by a BABIP a full 100 points lower than his pre-2017 numbers.

[drjim]

The other thing with Rosario is that he kind of is that type of a player that he is. He is not going to be a walk machine, but like was said, if he can cut down his k's, slightly bump the bb's, and still provide excellent value on defense and on the bases. This is a player with value, if a slightly unconventional player in today's game.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The other thing with Rosario is that he kind of is that type of a player that he is. He is not going to be a walk machine, but like was said, if he can cut down his k's, slightly bump the bb's, and still provide excellent value on defense and on the bases. This is a player with value, if a slightly unconventional player in today's game.

Yep. I'm not looking for Rosario to walk 10% of the time or lay off every pitch out of the zone, I'm simply looking for him to lay off the worst 4-5% of pitches thrown to him.

 

He's a bad ball hitter. That's okay, lots of players have had long, successful careers that way... But Eddie needs to lay off the unhittable pitches more often.

 

And he's done that this season.

[Blake]

 

When I watch Gibson now, I keep thinking Nick Blackburn.

Say what you want about Blackburn but, for some reason, he was a big game pitcher. Remember the gem he tossed against the Sox in game 163? I believe there was one other playoff game Blackburn was brilliant in. I don't think Gibson is cut from the same cloth.

[Doomtints]

 

Sample size of 2 for May pitching stats, and 3 for June. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that pattern holding weight. By the time you wait it out he may have handed the team several more losses and wracked the bullpen.

 

Sure. But what's the alternative? Just give him up now without knowing?

[Taildragger8791]

 

Sure. But what's the alternative? Just give him up now without knowing?

 

The assertion being made here is we pretty well do know by now. What are 5 more starts going to tell you that the first 101 didn't already? He's 29 and has never put it together for more than a few weeks at a time. The only reason to let him keep going at this point is because there's nobody really forcing him out of the rotation yet.

[Doomtints]

 

The assertion being made here is we pretty well do know by now. What are 5 more starts going to tell you that the first 101 didn't already? He's 29 and has never put it together for more than a few weeks at a time. The only reason to let him keep going at this point is because there's nobody really forcing him out of the rotation yet.

 

What you are saying with "he has never put it together for more than a few week at a time" is he's a #4/#5 pitcher and not a #2/#3 pitcher that we have him at now.

 

Agreed.

 

If his current performance is the same in 6 weeks, he will be gone soon enough. But he needs the chance to resume his bottom-of-the-rotation form.

[TheLeviathan]

This thread has potential for de-railing.....

 

 

yarnivek?

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Say what you want about Blackburn but, for some reason, he was a big game pitcher. Remember the gem he tossed against the Sox in game 163? I believe there was one other playoff game Blackburn was brilliant in. I don't think Gibson is cut from the same cloth.

I suspect you're thinking of the second game of the 2009 ALDS. 5.2 innings, 0.882 WHIP, 1 run.

Yankees went on to win the World Series.

 

Nick had his games. They were too few, but he had a few games where he really helped.

[Comrade Bork]

I'm coming around on Grossman's bat, but I'm not sure I'd want to see him in the lineup over vargas or Park. If you need to rest an OF'er id rather see a defensive specialist put in than an OBP guy with poor defense.

 

I have a hard time seeing where he fits unless his defense improves.