Shohei Otani

[drjim]

Ricky: If/When Otani comes over, is he viewed as a two way player?

 

Keith Law: Nope. This is going to be the most-asked question of 2017, I think. NPB pitching is not close to MLB pitching as a whole.

[TheLeviathan]

If he signs with the NL he's basically a two-way player already.  Not sure it's that big of a deal.

[kab21]

 

If he signs with the NL he's basically a two-way player already.  Not sure it's that big of a deal.

That is only true if you consider Bumgarner a two way player. I won't consider him a two way player unless he is playing in the field or DH'ing on half of his non-pitching days.

[TheLeviathan]

 

That is only true if you consider Bumgarner a two way player. I won't consider him a two way player unless he is playing in the field or DH'ing on half of his non-pitching days.

 

Right, but if you sign with an NL team you can show them every day you pitch that you can hit well enough to warrant consideration for more at-bats.  It just likely won't happen, but it's as close as he'll get.

[kab21]

 

Right, but if you sign with an NL team you can show them every day you pitch that you can hit well enough to warrant consideration for more at-bats.  It just likely won't happen, but it's as close as he'll get.

It still doesn't change the statement. He isn't 'basically a two way player' (your words) if he only hits when pitching. Bumgarner isn't a two way player. 

[Oldgoat_MN]

When the manager submits a lineup it lists a DH.

Can the pitcher be the DH?

When the pitcher gets pulled in the 6th inning the DH doesn't change.

Could the DH stay in the game even if he is the pitcher?

[ashbury]

When the manager submits a lineup it lists a DH.

Can the pitcher be the DH?

When the pitcher gets pulled in the 6th inning the DH doesn't change.

Could the DH stay in the game even if he is the pitcher?

The DH rule is pretty specific. To use a DH, the manger needs to submit a lineup containing 10 players. If the pitcher later bats, the DH is lost for the rest of the game. If the pitcher is listed as batting in the opening lineup, there's no DH that game. It's Rule 5.11 of MLB rules, which can be found here.

[TheLeviathan]

 

It still doesn't change the statement. He isn't 'basically a two way player' (your words) if he only hits when pitching. Bumgarner isn't a two way player. 

 

Nothing stops him from pitching hitting, there are plenty of opportunities for that in the NL too.  

 

Does "2 Way" require him to play in the field on his non-pitching days?  I don't think that definition is clear.

[Willihammer]

With the game trending from 11 to 12 and now 13 pitchers, there are fewer opportunities to have a one and done pinch hitter in the NL. He'll have to be able to field a position, which Otani doesn't, I believe. 

 

Some AL team, the Yankees I would bet, will give him the DH spot, let him try to use the short porch, then carry essentially a 26th man for platooning with Hicks or wheover else.

[Willihammer]

Plus

 

 

 

Jon Wertheim: You think he’s in a position now where he can say to teams, “Listen, if you’re not going to play me both ways, I’m probably not your guy,”

John Gibson: I think he won’t even talk to them if they don’t.

Jon Wertheim: Really?

John Gibson: I think he won’t even have a meeting with them.

 

[kab21]

 

Nothing stops him from pitching hitting, there are plenty of opportunities for that in the NL too.  

 

Does "2 Way" require him to play in the field on his non-pitching days?  I don't think that definition is clear.

Someone that makes a cameo appearance pinch hitting twice a week doesn't count as a two way player imo.

 

The extent that this has drug on is a little silly though. If you want to your definition of pinch hitter to be making a pinch hitting appearance then so be it.

With the game trending from 11 to 12 and now 13 pitchers, there are fewer opportunities to have a one and done pinch hitter in the NL. He'll have to be able to field a position, which Otani doesn't, I believe. 

 

Some AL team, the Yankees I would bet, will give him the DH spot, let him try to use the short porch, then carry essentially a 26th man for platooning with Hicks or wheover else.

He can play OF. 

[bird]

 

In answer to what will decide, if not money in the first year.....

 

Location, since he is Japanese, he might prefer a WC city, or NY, I'd guess.

Contention....I can't speak for him, but I'd rather play for a contender

Ability to make money on endorsements

Possibly a place where other Japanese are, or have succeeded in the past.

 

Hence my prediction of LAD, NYY, Seattle, TX.

 

 

This sounds logical, except the 60 Minute piece makes me wonder about this man's priorities. He appears to be very humble. He lives in a spartan dormitory right now despite already making millions. He stays rather secluded socially and seems to be singularly focused on his baseball journey. Through an interpreter, he said he doesn't care about the money. He cares about being the best he can be, and that involves both his positional and pitching aspirations. I came away convinced that he's not going to back down from his ambition to play both ways and I somehow get a vibe that his decision will be primarily based on his trust that an organization will fulfill its promise to him to afford him an optimal opportunity to excel in MLB as a true two-way player. 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Someone that makes a cameo appearance pinch hitting twice a week doesn't count as a two way player imo.

 

The extent that this has drug on is a little silly though. If you want to your definition of pinch hitter to be making a pinch hitting appearance then so be it.

He can play OF. 

 

Well it depends on what his objective is right?  Is it to play the outfield?  Is it to get regular at-bats?  What is he content with beyond pitching?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

With the game trending from 11 to 12 and now 13 pitchers, there are fewer opportunities to have a one and done pinch hitter in the NL. He'll have to be able to field a position, which Otani doesn't, I believe. 

 

Some AL team, the Yankees I would bet, will give him the DH spot, let him try to use the short porch, then carry essentially a 26th man for platooning with Hicks or wheover else.

 

Honestly, given that trend, a lot of teams would love him as a bat first pinch hitter as well if he can hit ML pitching.

[Mike Sixel]

KLAW isn't so sure he can hit here, IIRC.

[bird]

In the 60 Minute piece, they sat down with two of his American teammates to quiz them about Otani. Neither player was exactly articulate, but they spoke in superlatives and neither of them seemed to have any doubt about his ability to hit in MLB. Of course, you have to wonder if they're just saying what they think the interviewer wants to hear and all that.

 

I wouldn't know a good baseball swing from a bad one myself, but one swing I did see sure didn't look much like Ichiro. He went down and got all of a shin-high pitch and parked it Griffey style.

[Mike Sixel]

To be clear, I think KLAW's point was that he could certainly hit better than most pitchers, but that projecting him as a DH here might not be a good idea. 

[bird]

Yeah, who knows, but we certainly can't ignore the guy's stated intentions. Whether it's motivated by ego or some deeper sense of purpose, I for one hope he signs with the organization that will give him the very best shot at becoming a true two-way player here. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yeah, who knows, but we certainly can't ignore the guy's stated intentions. Whether it's motivated by ego or some deeper sense of purpose, I for one hope he signs with the organization that will give him the very best shot at becoming a true two-way player here. 

 

Agreed, it would be fun. We need more fun.

[jimbo92107]

This Otani guy throws real heat, reportedly 165 kph, which is over 102 mph. He also swings a bat a bit like Ken Griffey, Jr. It would be great to have a guy like this on the Twins, but his game suits the National League much better. How would the Twins use him when he pitches? Forget the DH? And when he's not pitching, he plays outfield instead of who, Kepler?

[Mike Sixel]

I can't see an AL team using him any other way than DH (when not pitching). Way too risky. If he's a legit top 10 pitcher, you just don't risk it as a fielder*

 

*unless somehow those numbers do come here, in which case I probably just make him a full time OF, and no pitching. Which I predict will not happen.

[kab21]

His pitching could put him as a top 10 pitcher.

 

His hitting (at a corner position or DH) is intriguing but probably tops out at solid every day player. If I was a team I would only want him pitching or at most pinch hitting. Having a part time DH is bothersome.

 

Unless of course you are the current Twins that seem to like rotating Sano through the spot and I wouldn't care if Otani stole a start or two/week from the Gene Larkin (I mean Grossman). But if I was a team with a legit DH that shouldn't field or is blocked in the field then I don't want an okay hitter taking AB's away from a vastly superior hitter (probably being paid a lot).

[Willihammer]

Interesting article about the Rangers' recent trades for international spending $$. The writer says they now have more then $3m left to spend, and speculates they are preparing to make a run at Otani this winter.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/texas-rangers/rangers/2017/08/05/minor-deal-help-rangers-potential-bid-acquire-major-asset-japanese-star-shohei-otani

Following the Marte, etc signings, plus the $500k back from the Kintzler trade, how much international spending room do the Twins have left?

And, is there any potential matchup where the Twins could trade Santana for a haul of international spending money? I know a number of clubs including the Dodgers and Cubs are basically out for blowing past their caps in previous years. Maybe the Mariners, Royals, or Brewers?

[drjim]

Interesting article about the Rangers' recent trades for international spending $$. The writer says they now have more then $3m left to spend, and speculates they are preparing to make a run at Otani this winter.

 

https://sportsday.da...ar-shohei-otani

 

Following the Marte, etc signings, plus the $500k back from the Kintzler trade, how much international spending room do the Twins have left?

 

And, is there any potential matchup where the Twins could trade Santana for a haul of international spending money? I know a number of clubs including the Dodgers and Cubs are basically out for blowing past their caps in previous years. Maybe the Mariners, Royals, or Brewers?

Most of the leftover money is locked into players that will sign shortly when they turn 16. Otani is not happening.

[Willihammer]

 

Most of the leftover money is locked into players that will sign shortly when they turn 16. Otani is not happening.

You're talking about Urdaneta and Andujar. Are there others besides those two?

[Willihammer]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2017-team-team-international-signing-trackers/

 

Twins started with $5.75.

Kintzler trade raised the pool to $6.25

 

Jelfry Marte, ss, Dominican Republic (No. 13 prospect), $3 million.
Luis Baez, of, Dominican Republic, $300,000.
Nomar Urdaneta, ss, Venezuela
Jose Andujar, of, Dominican Republic

 

That would leave them with $2.95 at the moment, assuming BA's list is up to date. Right there with the Rangers.

[drjim]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2017-team-team-international-signing-trackers/

 

Twins started with $5.75.

Kintzler trade raised the pool to $6.25

 

Jelfry Marte, ss, Dominican Republic (No. 13 prospect), $3 million.

Luis Baez, of, Dominican Republic, $300,000.

Nomar Urdaneta, ss, Venezuela

Jose Andujar, of, Dominican Republic

 

That would leave them with $2.95 at the moment, assuming BA's list is up to date. Right there with the Rangers.

Correct, but will go down when those deals are done, right?

 

I highly doubt they're going to pull out for a shot at Otani.

[drjim]

Other names, Carlos Aguiar and Mauro Bonifacio. Late August bdays.

[Willihammer]

 

Correct, but will go down when those deals are done, right?

I highly doubt they're going to pull out for a shot at Otani.

The Rangers have unsigned players too. More than the Twins, by that list.

[Willihammer]

http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2017/08/05/246659634/rangers-took-out-a-newspaper-ad-to-thank-yu-darvish?partnerId=sf61065111&sf61065111=1&sf61067143=1