We, Us, Our

[crapforks]

I read a lot of the Twins content on this site, both major and minor league. I am at the point now where I get angry with myself for my inability to temper my anger when I read someone referring to their favorite team as "we, us, our, etc." This is of course not specific to the Twins community, and I think it's worse in non-baseball pro sports. Am I alone in this? Is there anyone else who feels a guttural, visceral sense of frustration when people talk/write/type in this manner?

 

Side note: although I browse this site almost every day and have since the site started, I have never ventured down this way before. Good stuff.

[Craig Arko]

A little. Not big on tribalism but as stuff goes, this isn't all that egregious.

 

Personally I don't much identify with sports teams that way. We don't represent each other in the slightest.

[Pardon My Dinger]

Personally, I think it's equally silly to get all bent out of shape about it.

[Craig Arko]

Personally, I think it's equally silly to get all bent out of shape about it.

#contortionistlivesmatter

[Pardon My Dinger]

#contortionistlivesmatter

Contortionism is a life choice, and I pray that those poor, confused, curlicued people find the right path.

[Craig Arko]

Contortionism is a life choice, and I pray that those poor, confused, curlicued people find the right path.

I believe you.

[ashbury]

Contortionism is a life choice, and I pray that those poor, confused, curlicued people find the right path.

They tried conversion therapy on me, but Möbius I was born and Möbius I shall live.

 

In answer to CF's thread-starter, I somewhat share the negative reaction, probably due to early training. My mom used to like to respond, "what, you got a mouse in your pocket?", presumably to my inappropriate use of the word "we", though at the moment I can't recall what a kid would say to a parent that oversteps bounds regarding the plural pronoun. But it's not a battle I choose to fight in the sportsfan world. There's laundry with my home's name on it, worn by large and/or skilled people, so it's We Won or We Lost.

[Bark's Lounge]

Don't worry about it crapforks. I don't think you are alone on this site with having OCD.

 

#Dozier Trade Threads #ABW Obsession

[ashbury]

That's CDO.

Crdering Dompulsive Oyslexic.

[twinsnorth49]

Is this serious? I mean really, this angers people?

 

Wow.

[PseudoSABR]

The royal 'we' is a natural way for fans to express affinity for a team.  The reason why relocation is so controversial is because there's an overriding sense that teams do indeed belong to the community.  

 

I don't think it's ungrammatical or irreverent--in some ways its endearing. 

[Craig Arko]

Is this serious? I mean really, this angers people?

Wow.

Hey, it's not like anyone said something nice about Toronto or anything.

[formerly33]

We didn't win; they lost.

Case closed.

 

(Or, if you're a Twins fan, vice versa.)

[crapforks]

 

Personally, I think it's equally silly to get all bent out of shape about it.

Thats just the thing. I know how ridiculous it is. I no longer get upset that the lingo is used, I get upset at myself for not being able to just look past it. I don't get so mad I need to breathe deeply and count to 10 or anything. I just momentarily think, "Why? Why not exclude yourself? Is it really this personal?"

[twinsnorth49]

Hey, it's not like anyone said something nice about Toronto or anything.

That might make me angry, understandably of course.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Thats just the thing. I know how ridiculous it is. I no longer get upset that the lingo is used, I get upset at myself for not being able to just look past it. I don't get so mad I need to breathe deeply and count to 10 or anything. I just momentarily think, "Why? Why not exclude yourself? Is it really this personal?"

Hey crapforks. Life is always a mess and we all have our idiosyncrasies. It's cool that you reached out, but it is no big deal. I don't believe your problem is all that bad. It seems like you manage it well. There is no reason to guilt yourself over small compulsions. We all have our ticks and clicks. Ride with who you are and manage this compulsion the best you can. I think you will be successful in doing as such.

 

That's my opinion. Good luck to you!

[Vanimal46]

I try to make a point to reference a sports team as "they" for this reason...

[biggentleben]

As a writer, even writing for a team, it's an absolute no-no, even if you're writing about your favorite team.

 

I've also really found it quite frustrating as a former player when anyone referred to the Gophers at the time I played as "we"...when we did well on the field, and "they" when we didn't. There are many former and current athletes who feel the "we" term should be reserved for those putting in the hours upon hours of preparation and work to be able to don the uniform.

 

As a comparison, one of my friends who had a very long NFL career once stated to me that his wife was a very accomplished music producer. However, when the first album that she was a part of producing received award recognition, he never once considered the word or phrase "we". His point being that in sports, fans have so strongly associated themselves with the team that they assume a role within the team that isn't truly there, and often it can lead to an unhealthy role that the team/player/etc. plays in a person's life.

 

Just a different perspective/take...

[twinsnorth49]

I think fans invest a lot, clearly not as much as the players. I think using the term "we" is just feeling that you are part of things, which as a fan you clearly are. You feel the highs and lows, you attach yourself to the players and you've likely been involved in following the team longer than any single player has played for the team itself. The fans are part of a teams identity.

 

To suggest people don't have the right to use the term we when describing their favourite team is condescending and petty.

[biggentleben]

I think fans invest a lot, clearly not as much as the players. I think using the term "we" is just feeling that you are part of things, which as a fan you clearly are. You feel the highs and lows, you attach yourself to the players and you've likely been involved in following the team longer than any single player has played for the team itself. The fans are part of a teams identity.

 

To suggest people don't have the right to use the term we when describing their favourite team is condescending and petty.

I would highly debate "clearly are".

 

As fans, we cheer for laundry. The players on the field, whether they are there one game or 20 seasons, wear that laundry. There is a distinct difference.

 

I have never known a fan to be part of the on field performance, other than the drunken idiots who run onto the playing field, but they're only part of performance in delaying it, not actually truly affecting the outcome of the on field performance.

 

It could absolutely be due to being on the wrong end of over-involved fans as a player and person in my lifetime, but while I won't be telling someone how to address their team of choice, hearing someone address their favorite team as "we" sends me a message about their experience being on the athlete side of that equation.

[twinsnorth49]

I would highly debate "clearly are".

 

As fans, we cheer for laundry. The players on the field, whether they are there one game or 20 seasons, wear that laundry. There is a distinct difference.

 

I have never known a fan to be part of the on field performance, other than the drunken idiots who run onto the playing field, but they're only part of performance in delaying it, not actually truly affecting the outcome of the on field performance.

 

It could absolutely be due to being on the wrong end of over-involved fans as a player and person in my lifetime, but while I won't be telling someone how to address their team of choice, hearing someone address their favorite team as "we" sends me a message about their experience being on the athlete side of that equation.

I would highly debate the majority of fans being drunken idiots. Unfortunate that's your perception of a team's supporters, it's an unfair stereotype.

 

Having a sense of belonging to something that one enjoys following is pretty natural, especially a sports team that represents the city, state or country that fan is from. The term we is used pretty euphemistically, it's pretty silly to take issue with and takes for granted the people who go out of their way to show support.

 

Fans and players are clearly different, nobody is saying otherwise.

[Vanimal46]

I think fans invest a lot, clearly not as much as the players. I think using the term "we" is just feeling that you are part of things, which as a fan you clearly are. You feel the highs and lows, you attach yourself to the players and you've likely been involved in following the team longer than any single player has played for the team itself. The fans are part of a teams identity.

To suggest people don't have the right to use the term we when describing their favourite team is condescending and petty.

Personally the instances I've used "we" when describing a sports team are when I'm on that sports team, or on the staff of a sports team. The way I've justified that thinking is do the Twins know I'm a fan of their team? Do they care about my opinion of the team? Probably not, otherwise D Santana would be released already

 

It's not wrong if fans want to use "we" to feel like they're a part of the team. I may roll my eyes when I read it or hear it, but it's not something to get upset about. My views align more with Craig and Ben where I just don't identify myself that way with sports teams.

[Vanimal46]

As a writer, even writing for a team, it's an absolute no-no, even if you're writing about your favorite team.

 

I've also really found it quite frustrating as a former player when anyone referred to the Gophers at the time I played as "we"...when we did well on the field, and "they" when we didn't. There are many former and current athletes who feel the "we" term should be reserved for those putting in the hours upon hours of preparation and work to be able to don the uniform.

 

As a comparison, one of my friends who had a very long NFL career once stated to me that his wife was a very accomplished music producer. However, when the first album that she was a part of producing received award recognition, he never once considered the word or phrase "we". His point being that in sports, fans have so strongly associated themselves with the team that they assume a role within the team that isn't truly there, and often it can lead to an unhealthy role that the team/player/etc. plays in a person's life.

 

Just a different perspective/take...

Agreed. I wasn't a former college player but was on the staff at my alma matter's men's hockey team. Had the same experience... Whenever the team swept an opponent over the weekend, I heard "We did amazing! So glad we recruited Willie Getup he's going to be a stud!" Whenever the team got swept by an opponent, "They're terrible. What were they thinking recruiting Willie Getup?"

[Squirrel]

I've never given it a thought one way or the other and after reading this, I still don't give it a thought one way or the other. I'm just kind of 'Meh, whatever.' We all have our pet peeves that irrationally annoy us, so I applaud crapforks for putting his out there.

 

Mine is people who check and text on their phones at the movies. I either want to stand up and scream at them, 'GET THE **** OFF YOUR PHONE!' and/or grab their phones and throw them across the theatre. I of course would never do either, but then I sit there and seethe, both by being disturbed by phone users in the theatre and for letting them annoy me so much.

[jimmer]

 

I've never given it a thought one way or the other and after reading this, I still don't give it a thought one way or the posting other. I'm just kind of 'Meh, whatever.' We all have our pet peeves that irrationally annoy us, so I applaud crapforks for putting his out there.

Mine is people who check and text on their phones at the movies. I either want to stand up and scream at them, 'GET THE **** OFF YOUR PHONE!' and/or grab their phones and throw them across the theatre. I of course would never do either, but then I sit there and seethe, both by being disturbed by phone users in the theatre and for letting them annoy me so much.

How about people who are in super expensive seats and can't do anything but mess around on their phone? :-)

[Squirrel]

How about people who are in super expensive seats and can't do anything but mess around on their phone? :-)

It's the same no matter where they are sitting. If I'm sitting near them, and that phone comes out, the light is distracting. I have once or twice politely asked they please put their phones away as the light is distracting, but all that does is make the phone user try to be more 'stealth' about it, but it still doesn't work and I'm still annoyed.

[jimmer]

 

It's the same no matter where they are sitting. If I'm sitting near them, and that phone comes out, the light is distracting. I have once or twice politely asked they please put their phones away as the light is distracting, but all that does is make the phone user try to be more 'stealth' about it, but it still doesn't work and I'm still annoyed.

sorry, I meant baseball seats at a game.  sorry for not being clearer.

[Squirrel]

sorry, I meant baseball seats at a game.  sorry for not being clearer.

Ah, that doesn't bother me at a game. You aren't sitting in a darkened room where flashes of light are popping up here and there. Also, at a movie there is an expectation of silence and attention vs a game where people are coming and going, chatting with their buddies, yelling and cheering, vendors hawking their food and beverage up and down the aisles. It's a different atmosphere, different conditions, different protocols.

[crapforks]

 

I think fans invest a lot, clearly not as much as the players. I think using the term "we" is just feeling that you are part of things, which as a fan you clearly are. You feel the highs and lows, you attach yourself to the players and you've likely been involved in following the team longer than any single player has played for the team itself. The fans are part of a teams identity.

To suggest people don't have the right to use the term we when describing their favourite team is condescending and petty.

I am absolutely not suggesting that people don't have that right. I admitted that the fact I am bothered by it is irrational. In real conversations and online, I notice it but never make mention of it. I simply want to find out if any others share that annoyed felling on some level. 

[formerly33]

As a writer, even writing for a team, it's an absolute no-no, even if you're writing about your favorite team.

 

I've also really found it quite frustrating as a former player when anyone referred to the Gophers at the time I played as "we"...when we did well on the field, and "they" when we didn't. There are many former and current athletes who feel the "we" term should be reserved for those putting in the hours upon hours of preparation and work to be able to don the uniform.

 

As a comparison, one of my friends who had a very long NFL career once stated to me that his wife was a very accomplished music producer. However, when the first album that she was a part of producing received award recognition, he never once considered the word or phrase "we". His point being that in sports, fans have so strongly associated themselves with the team that they assume a role within the team that isn't truly there, and often it can lead to an unhealthy role that the team/player/etc. plays in a person's life.

 

Just a different perspective/take...

To be fair, it's not like she had a set location or belonged to a certain city/state and made said city/state proud to be able to call her their own (no insult, just ... y'know ... ). What I'm saying is, I've referred to the Minnesota and Saint Paul Chamber Orchestras in this very same possessive manner since I was about 8 years old. It may be disrespectful of the amount of work that happens both on stage and behind the scenes to make an orchestra, but at the same time I always felt it was more of a way to honor that work. I am proud to call this my state, my team, my orchestra.

 

What bugs me is when people strewn out across the country call the Packers "us." Hardly. Go root for the Jets like any other self respection Connecticotian (no, the Patriots don't count because their fans lack self respect).