Passan: Dodgers Nearing Deal for Forsythe

[Riverbrian]

 

I'm not sure how many more times that it can be explained.  

 

I'm not sure either but the TwinsDaily record is 117 times and it was set by DaveW on this very subject. 

 

There was a Joe Benson thread awhile back that had around 41 repeat explanations from someone. 

 

My favorite was when Jack Goin had to explain to Ash that he was really Jack Goin. 

 

Welcome to TwinsDaily. 

[Riverbrian]

 

Pfft, I'm going to go buy a yacht and then on my way home buy the lottery ticket I plan to pay for it with.

 

What could go wrong?

 

Zebra Mussels? 

[glunn]

Moderator note -- posts relating to Dave's credibility are off topic in this thread and in general. There has been enough of this. Please move on.

[jimmer]

Sickels is one of the really high ones on De Leon:

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/1/24/14369872/dodgers-trade-pitching-prospect-jose-de-leon-to-rays-for-logan-forsythe

mlb lists him as the 33rd prospect, and the 7th best pitching prospect.

[drjim]

 

mlb lists him as the 33rd prospect, and the 7th best pitching prospect.

 

The overall 100 for mlb.com hasn't been released/updated yet. He could be even higher than 33.

 

And it's a small quibble, but it's #7 RHP, not necessarily pitcher. (Probably only Groome is ahead of him).

[jimmer]

The overall 100 for mlb.com hasn't been released/updated yet. He could be even higher than 33.

 

And it's a small quibble, but it's #7 RHP, not necessarily pitcher. (Probably only Groome is ahead of him).

i looked at the overall list. Not one lefty ahead of him. So #7 RHP and #7 pitcher.

[zenser]

At least now the promotions department can schedule the Brian Dozier bat or jersey day. I was at the Eddie Rosario jersey day last year with my kids, except Eddie was in Rochester.

[Sweetwater]

Obv the Dodgers view De Leon as very expendable and were trying to outplay the Twins. Good job for not caving in. Dozier can stay a Twin. With positive development this team can get close to the playoffs.

[drjim]

 

i looked at the overall list. Not one lefty ahead of him. So #7 RHP and #7 pitcher.

 

Maybe, but the overall list is from last year and hasn't been updated yet and Groome was a draft pick.

 

Could be #7 though.

[DaveW]

Do you have any actual proof of this offer or is it just "he said/she said"? I have not seen anything other than random speculation that a "package" of players was on the table.

Texts/phone calls from my source who is in one of the two orgs (2 of the owners here have more info on the source and proof etc but don't know his/her name) ultimately they could have been wrong, but I don't believe so, they haven't steered me wrong in the past. It is odd however I will grant you that there hasn't been any other real reports on the additional players offered, both teams/orgs always play things close to the vest, which is another reason why I don't want to accidentally "burn" my source.

 

I don't want to share the text screen shots publically though for several reasons, as I wasn't given clearance to and I don't want someone figuring out who my source was, basically an abundance of caution. But I reported many of the updates on the twitter account.

[DaveW]

you think the Twins being a contender this year is a legit possibility? we disagree on that. As does pretty much every projection system and Vegas.

I don't see any possible way this current rotation can compete, even if Hughes is healthy and effective and Berrios reaches his potential we still have a ton of question marks for the last two spots in the rotation. Gibson, Santiago, etc are #5's at best at this point.

[Riverbrian]

 

Not saying he is right or wrong but... This article matches my suspicion. 

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/mlb/la-sp-dodgers-deleon-trade-20170123-story.html

 

 

 

[gunnarthor]

 

Not saying he is right or wrong but... This article matches my suspicion. 

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/mlb/la-sp-dodgers-deleon-trade-20170123-story.html

Yep.

[glunn]

 

Texts/phone calls from my source who is in one of the two orgs (2 of the owners here have more info on the source and proof etc but don't know his/her name) ultimately they could have been wrong, but I don't believe so, they haven't steered me wrong in the past. It is odd however I will grant you that there hasn't been any other real reports on the additional players offered, both teams/orgs always play things close to the vest, which is another reason why I don't want to accidentally "burn" my source.

I don't want to share the text screen shots publically though for several reasons, as I wasn't given clearance to and I don't want someone figuring out who my source was, basically an abundance of caution. But I reported many of the updates on the twitter account.

Moderator note - I am allowing Dave to have the last word on this and we are NOW DONE discussing the credibility of Dave's source. This has been beaten to death and is detracting from this thread.

[jimmer]

 

Not saying he is right or wrong but... This article matches my suspicion. 

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/mlb/la-sp-dodgers-deleon-trade-20170123-story.html

Well, believing it sure helps believe the Twins did the right thing.

[jimmer]

 

I don't see any possible way this current rotation can compete, even if Hughes is healthy and effective and Berrios reaches his potential we still have a ton of question marks for the last two spots in the rotation. Gibson, Santiago, etc are #5's at best at this point.

We'll just kept drafting and hoping.

[Twins33]

There some team out there you aren't thinking of as a contender who become a contender. Or a team loses a 3B or a LF and has a 2B who can move.

I'll counter that with saying that the Twins were a surprise contender in July of 2015. On trade deadline day, July 31, they held a WC spot. They were only up by one game, but still they were a playoff contender at that point. Would you have given up a two top 10 Twins prospects for whatever their need was at the time? My answer is no, unless the return was a good MLB SP under contract for 3+ years. How much would that cost? Guessing a lot.

 

You have to find the right surprise contender. One that is absolutely sure they are contending for the next few years, because if they don't think that they likely wouldn't want Dozier. Plus, the big trades are usually made for SP or RP and Dozier is neither. Seems like a needle in a hay stack. The Twins thought 2015 was the upswing. 2016 showed otherwise.

 

I wouldn't have done a 1-1 with DeLeon, but I also don't think we'll get more at the deadline unless the perfect storm of luck happens. I could certainly be wrong.

[TyTY23]

 

Well, believing it sure helps believe the Twins did the right thing.

Also this from Buster Olney;

 

Since Andrew Friedman took over the Los Angeles Dodgers' baseball operations, he has fended off repeated trade requests for Corey Seager, Julio Urias, Cody Bellinger and Yadier Alvarez. L.A. probably could've landed Cole Hamels, Chris Sale or other established stars, but the Dodgers have kept the best of their prospects. And they enjoyed the first extraordinary benefit of that approach last season.

 

Just sharing. I think the Twins did the right things in rejecting the 1 for 1 offer.  

[jimmer]

 

Also this from Buster Olney;

 

Since Andrew Friedman took over the Los Angeles Dodgers' baseball operations, he has fended off repeated trade requests for Corey Seager, Julio Urias, Cody Bellinger and Yadier Alvarez. L.A. probably could've landed Cole Hamels, Chris Sale or other established stars, but the Dodgers have kept the best of their prospects. And they enjoyed the first extraordinary benefit of that approach last season.

 

Just sharing. I think the Twins did the right things in rejecting the 1 for 1 offer.  

Again, very doubtful it was a 1:1 offer, but whatever.

[Riverbrian]

 

Well, believing it sure helps believe the Twins did the right thing.

 

Here's a live photo of me that shows I'm OK

 

http://previews.123rf.com/images/blueskyimage/blueskyimage1309/blueskyimage130900203/21986202-Big-baby-with-Teddy-Bear-Infant-adult-man-sleeping-with-his-teddy-bear-Stock-Photo.jpg

[jimmer]

 

Here's a live photo of me that shows I'm OK

 

http://previews.123rf.com/images/blueskyimage/blueskyimage1309/blueskyimage130900203/21986202-Big-baby-with-Teddy-Bear-Infant-adult-man-sleeping-with-his-teddy-bear-Stock-Photo.jpg

nice Teddy Bear.  My daughter would be jealous.

[glunn]

 

Here's a live photo of me that shows I'm OK

 

http://previews.123rf.com/images/blueskyimage/blueskyimage1309/blueskyimage130900203/21986202-Big-baby-with-Teddy-Bear-Infant-adult-man-sleeping-with-his-teddy-bear-Stock-Photo.jpg

I recognize RB, but who is the human spooning him?

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

No one trades 6 years of a #2-3 starter for 2 years of Logan Forsythe. Least of all the Dodgers. It would never, ever happen if they really believe that is who De Leon is. 

 

If De Leon turns into a reliable #2-3 starter, I will write a lengthy ode to TheLeviathan's foresight and forever renounce sharing my opinions on prospects, with the Twins or any other club.

I listened to Kevin Kennedy tonight on Sirius.  Kennedy is someone who knows how to scout talent, as a former catcher he knows pitching.  He also knows the Dodgers system inside out.  I would trust his opinion over a lot of bloggers as well as the knucklehead that hosts Dodger Talk these days.  The only reason anyone listened to that show in past years was for Kennedy's analysis.  Anyways, he thinks the world of JDL.  He projects him as a solid #2 eventually.  Certainly no lower than a #3 as his floor.  Re-signing Hill allowed them to deal from a position of strength for a position of need.

 

Zaidi was also on and said if JDL wasn't dealt he was someone they planned on getting starts in 2017.

[drivlikejehu]

 

I listened to Kevin Kennedy tonight on Sirius.  Kennedy is someone who knows how to scout talent, as a former catcher he knows pitching.  He also knows the Dodgers system inside out.  I would trust his opinion over a lot of bloggers as well as the knucklehead that hosts Dodger Talk these days.  The only reason anyone listened to that show in past years was for Kennedy's analysis.  Anyways, he thinks the world of JDL.  He projects him as a solid #2 eventually.  Certainly no lower than a #3 as his floor.  Re-signing Hill allowed them to deal from a position of strength for a position of need.

 

Zaidi was also on and said if JDL wasn't dealt he was someone they planned on getting starts in 2017.

 

If De Leon is a #2 starter, why wasn't he a lock for the rotation? Are all those other guys behind Kershaw at least a #2? 

 

Unless you mean De Leon won't be a #2 for a while, which I don't understand because he's 24. Will he be good when he's 27? I don't get it. 

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

because some of you don't visit the other thread.....

 

Bork
1:45 How high is the risk on De Leon?

Eric A Longenhagen
1:45 Probably higher than is usual for an arm that's had that kind of success at Triple-A. Injuries, had weight issues in college.
And that fastball can be pretty flat. Some are worried he's going to be homer prone.

This is in line with what I had posted when I first came on the board.  The Dodgers had asked him to work on his body.  He's dating a professional tennis player and when he showed up to spring training last year, they actually felt that he had lost too much weight.

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

If De Leon is a #2 starter, why wasn't he a lock for the rotation? Are all those other guys behind Kershaw at least a #2? 

 

Unless you mean De Leon won't be a #2 for a while, which I don't understand because he's 24. Will he be good when he's 27? I don't get it. 

Yes, that's why he said eventually.  He will enter the Rays rotation as a number 5.  He's not a finished product.  He pounds the zone.  He has a plus fastball and changeup.  A slider that looks good a times and a developing curve ball.  To be a number two, he's got work to do on his breaking pitches.  ,

[TyTY23]

 

If De Leon is a #2 starter, why wasn't he a lock for the rotation? Are all those other guys behind Kershaw at least a #2? 

 

Unless you mean De Leon won't be a #2 for a while, which I don't understand because he's 24. Will he be good when he's 27? I don't get it. 

Pitchers don't have to be #2 in the rotation to pitch like a #2. Just look at Kendrick with the Cubs. The guy was their #5 starters and ended up pitching like an ace. JDL wasn't a lock in the rotation because of many circumstances. One, Kershaw, Hill, Maeda, Wood, and Urias are currently more proven pitchers. Two, pitchers like McCarthy and Kazmir are veterans with big contacts, so must stay on their roster. The Dodgers just didn't have the room to give JDL the innings that he deserved, so he was used to acquire to fill a need. He wasn't traded because he was no good.   

[HawkeyeDodger]

FWIW, i had asked the guy who broke the Turner and Jansen signings what he had heard.  His response was that he heard Stewart had been added.   I'm not saying he's right or wrong anymore than I'm   saying Dave was right or wrong.  Just sharing information.  

[drivlikejehu]

 

Pitchers don't have to be #2 in the rotation to pitch like a #2. Just look at Kendrick with the Cubs. The guy was their #5 starters and ended up pitching like an ace. JDL wasn't a lock in the rotation because of many circumstances. One, Kershaw, Hill, Maeda, Wood, and Urias are currently more proven pitchers. Two, pitchers like McCarthy and Kazmir are veterans with big contacts, so must stay on their roster. The Dodgers just didn't have the room to give JDL the innings that he deserved, so he was used to acquire to fill a need. He wasn't traded because he was no good.   

 

I obviously didn't mean #2 in the sequence of pitching, I meant #2 in terms of ability.

 

First of all, the Dodgers certainly don't "need" to keep McCarthy or Kazmir due to their contracts, which <a> are pocket change for the club and <b> are sunk costs regardless.

 

But more importantly, putting that aside - every team in baseball can use a mid-rotation starter. Even if De Leon had to start the year in the bullpen, that might even be a plus considering he's never started a whole season before. And, for sure the Dodgers are going to need more than 5 starters in 2017. Probably a lot more.

 

They had every ability to use De Leon this season. They just didn't feel the need to keep him around, because he's not actually a #2 or even a #3.

[TyTY23]

 

I obviously didn't mean #2 in the sequence of pitching, I meant #2 in terms of ability.

 

First of all, the Dodgers certainly don't "need" to keep McCarthy or Kazmir due to their contracts, which <a> are pocket change for the club and <b> are sunk costs regardless.

 

But more importantly, putting that aside - every team in baseball can use a mid-rotation starter. Even if De Leon had to start the year in the bullpen, that might even be a plus considering he's never started a whole season before. And, for sure the Dodgers are going to need more than 5 starters in 2017. Probably a lot more.

 

They had every ability to use De Leon this season. They just didn't feel the need to keep him around, because he's not actually a #2 or even a #3.

You kind of made it seemed like if JDL's ceiling is that of a #2 he should be a lock in the Dodger rotation. I simply was stating that the Dodger rotation is just staked with more proven pitchers. 

 

Also, the Dodgers aren't just going to DFA two possible solid pitchers in McCarthy and Kazmir. If last year is any indication of what happens to pitchers in a long season, these two are going to have to pitch plenty even though they aren't guaranteed a spot in the rotation.