2016-2017 MLB Off-season Thread

[biggentleben]

The two most active GMs in the game are at it again:

 

Braves trade OF Mallex Smith and RHP Shae Simmons

 

Mariners trade LHPs Luiz Gohara and Thomas Burrows

[biggentleben]

And then Dipoto can't sit still:

 

Mariners trade OF Mallex Smith, LHP Ryan Yarbrough, IF Cesar Vargas

 

Rays trade LHP Drew Smyly

[biggentleben]

I like what the Mariners are putting together for sure.

[markos]

 

I like what the Mariners are putting together for sure.

Do you have any idea what the Rays are doing? Seems like Smyly would fetch more than Smith and change. And don't they have enough outfielders already? Kiermaier, Souza, Dickerson, Rasmus, Mahtook... Almost feels like they are shedding money.

[Mike Sixel]

The Mariners are going for it, given their limited payroll and farm system....

[biggentleben]

 

The Mariners are going for it, given their limited payroll and farm system....

 

Their farm system really wasn't that limited. It was horribly mismanaged, but it had a ton of talent. Dipoto completely overhauled the people running the development system, and the industry raved about the difference in a single year in the approach of the team. They took the better performance of many of their players and spun them into deals to win at the big league level while they have a number of older players (Felix, Cano, Cruz), and then they'll be able to crack down into their system again, with guys like Kyle Lewis and Tyler O'Neill ready quite soon, Mike Zunino back on track after a development system that knew what they were doing with him, a whole load of pitching such that losing Gohara is losing one of the few "elite" arms they had, but only eliminated one of 5 guys they had in their system that topped triple digits - as a starter!

[biggentleben]

 

Do you have any idea what the Rays are doing? Seems like Smyly would fetch more than Smith and change. And don't they have enough outfielders already? Kiermaier, Souza, Dickerson, Rasmus, Mahtook... Almost feels like they are shedding money.

 

Absolutely they're shedding money. They've been trying to shed money for a while. They've entertained offers on Archer, Odorizzi, Smyly, and even Longoria this winter to shed cash.

 

One thing Smith does give them is a speed element that they have nowhere else on the team. He's not a center fielder by any other reason than he's fast (he has terrible routes to balls and calling his arm "average" would be a compliment), but he has true 80 grade speed on the 20-to-80 scouting scale, which allows him to cover up a lot of bad jumps for now. I've said for a while that he has a Juan Pierre upside.

[bluechipper]

 

Absolutely they're shedding money. They've been trying to shed money for a while. They've entertained offers on Archer, Odorizzi, Smyly, and even Longoria this winter to shed cash.

 

One thing Smith does give them is a speed element that they have nowhere else on the team. He's not a center fielder by any other reason than he's fast (he has terrible routes to balls and calling his arm "average" would be a compliment), but he has true 80 grade speed on the 20-to-80 scouting scale, which allows him to cover up a lot of bad jumps for now. I've said for a while that he has a Juan Pierre upside.

That still seems like a light return for Smyly. Mallex Smith strikes out way to much for the type of player he is- about 17% in the minors. And he's a really light bat for a corner outfielder.

[biggentleben]

 

That still seems like a light return for Smyly. Mallex Smith strikes out way to much for the type of player he is- about 17% in the minors. And he's a really light bat for a corner outfielder.

 

The prospects are very, very good, though. They got two guys who are very high-ceiling, low-floor types, but both are guys are who could very possibly end up in the top 10 Rays and even top 100 overall prospects. Yarbrough is a favorite of mine, and Vargas has legit power, though he's probably a 3B going forward.

[Vanimal46]

Royals LHP Danny Duffy isn't going anywhere. He signed a 5 year, $65 million contract this afternoon to stay in KC until 2021. 

He will earn $5 million this year before a bump to $14 million in 2018. He will make $15.25 million each in 2019 and 2020 and $15.5 million in the final year of the deal.

[biggentleben]

 

He had TOS surgery this summer, and there is no real time line for return on that, so there's no guarantee on what you'd get in 2017. He was projected at $9M in arbitration, which is likely the sticking point. I'm sure if you went to him with a 2+1 deal in the $15-20M guaranteed range, he'd listen pretty strong.

 

$6M for one, which says a lot about how much of a mystery Thoracic Outlet Syndrome still is for major league teams.

[Vanimal46]

Joey Bats re-signs with the Blue Jays. 1 year $18 million with 2 option years that could make it $60 million total. 

[biggentleben]

Rangers sign Josh Hamilton to a minor league deal. Angels still paying him ridiculous amounts of money...

[Vanimal46]

$6M for one, which says a lot about how much of a mystery Thoracic Outlet Syndrome still is for major league teams.

At first I wasn't sure what you were talking about....

 

Tyson Ross to the Rangers 1 year $6 million plus incentives.

 

As a Twins fan, I sure would have liked to find out if he was healthy for $6 million...

[nicksaviking]

At first I wasn't sure what you were talking about....

Tyson Ross to the Rangers 1 year $6 million plus incentives.

As a Twins fan, I sure would have liked to find out if he was healthy for $6 million...

It would be nice to think the Twins, as opposed to most teams, have a better grasp of TOS recovery and how to gauge how the player will respond seeing as they have Phil Hughes.

 

Maybe they don't like what they see from Phil right now. Or Ross may have no interest in the Twins.

[biggentleben]

 

At first I wasn't sure what you were talking about....

Tyson Ross to the Rangers 1 year $6 million plus incentives.

As a Twins fan, I sure would have liked to find out if he was healthy for $6 million...

 

LOL! Yeah, responding to my own post about the deal wasn't the best way to clue in what was going on!

[drjim]

Feliz goes to the Brewers, 1 year, $5.35mil (and incentives). 

 

Between that and the Casilla contracts, the Twins could have added a veteran closer at a reasonable price. Still some more options.

[TheLeviathan]

Again, another reliever i'd have been happy to pay much more than that off the board.

[Vanimal46]

I don't get it.. There's no way they're going into the season with Kintzler as the closer again, right?

[nicksaviking]

I would have liked Feliz also, but for all we know, he didn't want to come here. I don't know what would be the difference between Minneapolis and Milwaukee, but no one really knows what is going on and in a lot of these situations that are making us jealous, I don't think the Twins can just throw money at the guy and expect him to come.

 

Guys like Feliz, Tyson Ross, or Greg Holland are likely looking for a bounceback contract, so they wouldn't be looking at any make-good offers thrown at them in 2017 with wide eyes and drool. They are probably much more concerned with finding a place where they can succeed and get their big payday next year. As for Casilla, he doesn't have to move; he's just playing across the Bay. The Twins couldn't match that offer if they wanted to.

[cmoss84]

For what it's worth, Dan Straily got traded from the Reds to the Marlins for 3 pretty decent prospects. Straily had been picked up off waivers from the Padres and had a career year-a career that's been up and down. Seems like the marlins gave up a lot for him and are trying to load their team with back of the rotation arms. They are a confusing, unpredictable team. 

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

For what it's worth, Dan Straily got traded from the Reds to the Marlins for 3 pretty decent prospects. Straily had been picked up off waivers from the Padres and had a career year-a career that's been up and down. Seems like the marlins gave up a lot for him and are trying to load their team with back of the rotation arms. They are a confusing, unpredictable team. 

 

We should talk to them!

[biggentleben]

For what it's worth, Dan Straily got traded from the Reds to the Marlins for 3 pretty decent prospects. Straily had been picked up off waivers from the Padres and had a career year-a career that's been up and down. Seems like the marlins gave up a lot for him and are trying to load their team with back of the rotation arms. They are a confusing, unpredictable team.

After losing Fernandez, the Marlins instead chose to go Royals strategy with a staff of 3/4 starters and a loaded bullpen. Their pen is incredibly impressive.

[jimmer]

I LOVE listening to old school players and baseball 'experts' complaining (every day for weeks) about how Chris Carter can't get work and saying that the reason he can't find work is that baseball, as a whole, is now experiencing an over-correction to where they just don't value power like they used to and instead look at the whole player.  

 

Power is still valued as much as ever, it's just teams aren't blind to it anymore.

 

But keep making me crack up Darling, Plescac, Pena etc. by making fun of 'nerds' in FO who are making all their decisions by what the computer spits out. Cause that's how it works.

 

[Willihammer]

 

I LOVE listening to old school players and baseball 'experts' complaining (every day for weeks) about how Chris Carter can't get work and saying that the reason he can't find work is that baseball, as a whole, is now experiencing an over-correction to where they just don't value power like they used to and instead look at the whole player.  

 

Power is still valued as much as ever, it's just teams aren't blind to it anymore.

 

But keep making me crack up Darling, Plescac, Pena etc. by making fun of 'nerds' in FO who are making all their decisions by what the computer spits out. Cause that's how it works.

A year ago Chris Davis signed for 7/161. You have to admit the market has swung rather violently the other way. Suggesting it has over-swung isn't crazy.

[jimmer]

A year ago Chris Davis signed for 7/161. You have to admit the market has swung rather violently the other way. Suggesting it has over-swung isn't crazy.

Davis also plays a really good 1B. Carter doesnt play anything well. Davis had a wRC+ of 148 the season before he got his contract, Carter was at a wRC+ of 112 last season. Carter has 0.7 war last year, Davis had a WAR of 5.6 in the season prior to getting his contract.

 

Did Davis get overpaid because Baltimore bid against themselves? Yes. Was it smart, no. But Davis was a vastly superior in his contract year than Carter was this past season.

 

I say teams have gotten smart by looking at the whole player instead of just digging the long ball.

[Willihammer]

"Vastly superior" is debatable. Better, sure, but still a lousy defender, baserunner, and TTO just like Carter. Only a little better in every component (actually worse at strikeouts though). They're similar. One is making 9 figures, the other's unemployed. It's definitely remarkable to some of us. YMMV.

[jimmer]

"Vastly superior" is debatable. Better, sure, but still a lousy defender, baserunner, and TTO just like Carter. Only a little better in every component (actually worse at strikeouts though). They're similar. One is making 9 figures, the other's unemployed. It's definitely remarkable to some of us. YMMV.

Davis is not a lousy defender at all. He is very good defender. He also isnt a lousy baserunner. I gave you the info why davis was much better in 2015 than carter was in 2016. If you want to disregard it, certianly entitled.

 

Also one team that bid against itself isnt an example of a league wide issue. It was railed as a bad signing when it happened.

[biggentleben]

Shoot, Davis has taken reps at third base as recently as two years ago.

[Mr. Brooks]

"Vastly superior" is debatable. Better, sure, but still a lousy defender, baserunner, and TTO just like Carter. Only a little better in every component (actually worse at strikeouts though). They're similar. One is making 9 figures, the other's unemployed. It's definitely remarkable to some of us. YMMV.

5.6 WAR versus 0.7.

I'd call that extremely vast.