Article: Twins Trade Francisco Liriano To White Sox

[FrodaddyG]

Funny... I'll try to remember this. The Twins are the Chumps in this one' date=' further escalated by trading with the enemy. What a splendid hand job this was.[/quote']

Generally, I'd imagine the rule of thumb is "don't give a division rival someone that you think will come back to haunt you".

 

In this case, the Twins gave up a couple month rental in a lost season.

 

The Sox gave up two guys with tons of team control left. I can only imagine how highly they're regarded in the Sox inner circle for this to go down.

 

Time to go wander the neighborhood and find some dog feces to mail to JR's office. (Who knows what he may send me in return!)

[greengoblinrulz]

Absolutely all are welcome, but Im just chuckling that 3 or 4 guys have posted for the first time in the last couple minutes......Frankie brings out everyone!!!

[Rivas#1Fan]

Welcome Terry Ryan

 

Great to be here! Thanks for having me.

[minn55441]

Liriano had to be traded.

 

1) We weren't going to resign him after the season.

2) By moving him now, it does not affect our playoff chances.

3) We got something in return, every GM is aware of his struggles. I'm sure TR didn't walk away from a better offer.

 

Every one bitching about this trade, would even be more upset if he were not moved by the deadline.

[glunn]

Hopefully Ryan sees potential value in at least one of these guys and I pray that he is correct.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Maybe Alex Wimmers pitching arm. That seems like a fair trade for dog feces.

[gunnarthor]

Sickels on Hernandez: Hernandez has an 88-92 MPH fastball along with a good changeup and mediocre curve. There's nothing spectacular about him, but he throws strikes and could develop into a fifth starter or a relief option. I currently rate him as a Grade C prospect. http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/31/2673194/prospects-in-the-carlos-quentin-trade-san-diego-padres-chicago-white-sox

[nicksaviking]

Has anyone considered the possibility that the market for Liriano was not what we had hoped for? I'm all for criticizing the moves of the front office, but not even the most inept of general managers would trade a Major League starter within the division, for mediocre prospects, if something better were available.

Yes but an inept GM trades a guy for next to nothing when he could have gotten an additional high draft pick next year when his player declines the qualifying offer. There's maybe 20% chance max that Liriano would have accepted seeing as he's likely the top lefty and one of the youngest on the market next year and it wouldn't have been the end of the world if he had accepted.

 

I was ready for a complete overhaul but I don't trust Ryan to do right by the club anymore. Please hold onto Span/Willingham/Perkins and anyone else under contract until someone with a better vision takes control.

[70charger]

Has anyone considered the possibility that the market for Liriano was not what we had hoped for? I'm all for criticizing the moves of the front office, but not even the most inept of general managers would trade a Major League starter within the division, for mediocre prospects, if something better were available.

Thank you. I've been all for trading Liriano, and it's frankly because he's not a good pitcher. Yeah, yeah, yeah, talent. Blah, blah, blah, upside. Gimme something in a real game, please, or just shut the hell up. He's been crap since his Tommy John (2010 excepted), and on top his horrible inconsistency, he only pitches well when there is absolutely nothing on the line. He's Mr. June.

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this trade. Yeah, these guys aren't stellar. But Liriano isn't any good anyway, and he's a rental without a comp pick. What the hell did you people expect?

[greenland on the map]

Absolutely all are welcome, but Im just chuckling that 3 or 4 guys have posted for the first time in the last couple minutes......Frankie brings out everyone!!!

What can I say? I am going to miss those 10 trips to the mound by Joe and Andy before the fifth inning. Fond memories

[Highabove]

Who still wants to trade Perkins and Burton??

[FrodaddyG]

What the hell did you people expect?

Keep him and take the single comp pick which has a better chance of being a meaningful player than either of these schlubs?

[Rivas#1Fan]

Yes but an inept GM trades a guy for next to nothing when he could have gotten an additional high draft pick next year when his player declines the qualifying offer. There's maybe 20% chance max that Liriano would have accepted seeing as he's likely the top lefty and one of the youngest on the market next year and it wouldn't have been the end of the world if he had accepted.

 

I was ready for a complete overhaul but I don't trust Ryan to do right by the club anymore. Please hold onto Span/Willingham/Perkins and anyone else under contract until someone with a better vision takes control.

Those guys are going to need longer contracts if you want to hold onto them until that happens.

[greengoblinrulz]

With this trade, the Capps resigning (no draft pick), & not dafting the highest guys available (LBard).....can we surmize Terry Ryan isnt a great fan of sandwich picks

[glunn]

As an extra added bonus, Duensing is starting tomorrow.

 

How is this going to feel later in the season if Liriano no hits the Twins?

[Rivas#1Fan]

Keep him and take the single comp pick which has a better chance of being a meaningful player than either of these schlubs?

This argument on the surface seems logical. But, is there really a better chance the draft pick made by a Terry Ryan led front office is better than two prospects traded for by same said front office? ;-)

[FrodaddyG]

This argument on the surface seems logical. But, is there really a better chance the draft pick made by a Terry Ryan led front office is better than two prospects traded for by same said front office? ;-)

I'll roll the dice with an unknown over two proven mediocre assets.

[nicksaviking]

As an extra added bonus, Duensing is starting tomorrow.

 

How is this going to feel later in the season if Liriano no hits the Twins?

Our indignation will certainly feel justified.

[minn55441]

I guess a lot of this discussion revolves around how you think Frankie will pitch over the second half of the season. Regardless of your criteria, wins, ERA, WAR, innings pitched etc... do really think he will pitch well enough to improve his value next offseason? I don't think he will pitch well enough to warrant a multi-year deal let alone one for 12 million plus.

 

I guess we just wait and see.

[gunnarthor]

Keep him and take the single comp pick which has a better chance of being a meaningful player than either of these schlubs?

It's also very likely that Liriano will continue to suck as a pitcher and we'd be left with nothing for him.

[FrodaddyG]

It's also very likely that Liriano will continue to suck as a pitcher and we'd be left with nothing for him.

You mean, besides a comp pick?

[FrodaddyG]

I guess a lot of this discussion will revolves around how you think Frankie will pitch over the second half of the season. Regardless of your criteria, wins, ERA, WAR, innings pitched etc... do really think he will pitch well enough to improve his value next offseason? I don't think he will pitch well enough to warrant a multi-year deal let alone one for 12 million plus.

 

I guess we just wait and see.

Some front office will bite on his potential, even if he's unimpressive the rest of this year. There's no way a guy with Liriano's injury history takes a one year deal when he's one bad tweak of his elbow away from the end of his career, and someone will throw at least 3/$20 at him.

[70charger]

Keep him and take the single comp pick which has a better chance of being a meaningful player than either of these schlubs?

First of all, you have to offer him more than $12 million and have him turn it down to get a comp pick. I don't think Liriano's turning that down, because despite the "wisdom" shown on this board, major league GMs know he isn't worth that money. So we'd be stuck sinking too much money into a guy with a 5 ERA, and come next season we're in the exact same position.

 

Second of all, you get one sandwich pick, and statistically, that one pick isn't likely to be a good major league player. Hell, many of those picks don't even make it to AAA. On the other hand, you trade Liriano for what we traded him for, and you get... two AAA players! Including one who was just traded for Carlos Quentin. I think some people here might be bad at math.

[gunnarthor]

You mean, besides a comp pick?

The Twins wouldn't give him a qualifying offer if he has a 5.00 era and 0 (or lower) WAR (both of which are better than his current numbers). And if they did, he'd take it so we'd be stuck with a 12.5m for a cruddy pitcher.

[PseudoSABR]

Liriano probably accepts arb and the Twins are stuck w an even more untradeable player. The comp pick was far from guaranteed. Seriously, it's unlikely the Twins even offer arb. That said, not even exactly happy w the trade. This spells the end for casilla, methinks

[70charger]

You mean, besides a comp pick?

Dude, look up the new CBA and while you're at it, quit spewing this line.

[minn55441]

Some front office will bite on his potential, even if he's unimpressive the rest of this year. There's no way a guy with Liriano's injury history takes a one year deal when he's one bad tweak of his elbow away from the end of his career, and someone will throw at least 3/$20 at him.

That's a good point, there maybe someone out there willing to give him 3/$20. But I don't think that he could turn down $12 for one year if we offered it to him. Even if there was a 25% chance of him taking the offer, we can't afford to make that mistake. We don't want him pitching for us anymore. that decision had been made. We can't afford to make him an offer, or he might accept.

[DaveW]

This sucks

[70charger]

Liriano probably accepts arb and the Twins are stuck w an even more untradeable player. The comp pick was far from guaranteed. Seriously, it's unlikely the Twins even offer arb. That said, not even exactly happy w the trade. This spells the end for casilla, methinks

Liriano has enough service time. He's out of his arb years.

[daveha]

It's as if Ryan just wants to GET PAST THIS SEASON [after suffering an equally bad one last year]. If he drops some more salary, who cares if he trades what few assets the Twins have for next to nothing? [The trick was always to package Liriano with Span.] Now I'm getting cold sweats thinking about what new plots TR is about to hatch. Span for Fidel Castro's driver? Willingham for Marta? Morneau for Ricky Ricardo?