Wolfson: Twins Sign LHP Sean Burnett (Min Lg Deal)

[Mike Sixel]

Very exciting. In a lost year, who doesn't want to watch 33 year olds get their shot......I mean, really, why go youth at all?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I know Brandon knows, but in case anyone missed it, Duensing signed with the Orioles today.

I haven't seen any opt out date reported in Duensing's Orioles deal.  He might just be a AAA pitcher now?

[jokin]

 

I haven't seen any opt out date reported in Duensing's Orioles deal.  He might just be a AAA pitcher now?

 

Only just, "now"?

[Otto von Ballpark]

This really should be in the major league forum.  When you signed a minor league deal with an opt-out after 2-3 weeks, you are pretty much guaranteed a MLB promotion if you want it, no?  David Murphy, Robbie Grossman, and now Sean Burnett.

 

I guess the question is, who will Burnett replace?  Probably Trevor May or Ryan Pressly, both have an option left and have struggled.

 

Problem is, Burnett, like Kintzler before him, can't be optioned, and we're almost signing him too late to flip at the deadline, and Burnett will be a FA again after the year anyway.  So he could very easy block someone, delaying the debut of someone like Chargois and contributing to another offseason of bullpen uncertainty...

[Thrylos]

 

I see the stats. But Boshers had the misfortune (or maybe I did, as a spectator) of blowing the save in Pawtucket, the one time I ever saw him pitch. So if he does get called up, I'm going to be holding my breath each and every time he gets called in, anticipating bad results.

 

The manager who puts Boshers in a save situation (unless it is the 20th inning) should be fired on the spot.

[Otto von Ballpark]

So upon closer inspection, Burnett's season is kind of insane.  His 2016 contract status from Baseball Prospectus:

 

 

1 year (2016). Signed by Washington as a free agent 11/15/15 (minor-league contract). May opt out of contract 4/1/16 if not on Major League roster. Released by Washington 4/3/16 after exercising opt-out clause. Signed by LA Dodgers as a free agent 4/10/16 (minor-league contract). Released by LA Dodgers 5/1/16 (exercised opt-out). Signed by Atlanta as a free agent 5/3/16 (minor-league contract). Exercised right to opt out of contract with Atlanta 5/16. Signed by Minnesota as a free agent 5/23/16 (minor-league contract).

 

You've read that right, folks -- Burnett opted out of 3 minor league deals in a month and a half.  My only question is, how did he not find Minnesota sooner?

[Thrylos]

The Twins have at least 4 lefties at AAA and a couple at AA who are better than Burnett and his 66 mph "fast"ball.  

 

This is worse than the David Murphy deal.  Andrew Albers levels bad.

 

It' Pohlad's cash and I don't care if Ryan Burnett's, but I hope the guy does not see the majors with the Twins 

[Thrylos]

 

 

So upon closer inspection, Burnett's season is kind of insane.  His 2016 contract status from Baseball Prospectus:

 

 

You've read that right, folks -- Burnett opted out of 3 minor league deals in a month and a half.  My only question is, how did he not find Minnesota sooner?

 

Thought that DC was ok, but has been kinda of a cold spring, so LA was way better.  Now that it's warming up in Southern California, about time to move up North

[Otto von Ballpark]

He had a decent spring training with Washington -- 8.2 shutout innings, 6 hits, 1 BB, 1 HBP, 7 K's.  2.4 GO/AO ratio according to MLB.com:

 

http://m.mlb.com/player/430634/sean-burnett?year=2016&stats=career-s-pitching-mlb

 

Then an iffy couple weeks with the Dodgers AAA team: 7.2 IP, 8 hits, 6 BB, 2 HBP, 5 K's.  But a 2.6 GO/AO ratio.

 

Then a couple better weeks with the Braves AAA team: 5.1 IP, 3 hits, 1 BB, 5 K's.  Again a 2.6 GO/AO ratio.

 

Still not encouraging that he's been dropped by 3 teams in the last two months -- I think it would be almost impossible to flip him in trade in a couple months, seems like everybody has already had multiple chances at acquiring him for free and passed.  The fact that his last two minor league deals have been with the Braves and Twins suggests declining interest from better teams.

 

I have nothing against Burnett and similar reclamation projects, but given the late point in the season, that lack of market value, our likelihood of getting back in the race for 2016, and that he is a free agent after the season, there is almost zero upside to this move for the Twins.

[jokin]

 

... seems like everybody has already had multiple chances at acquiring him for free and passed.  

 

The fact that his last two minor league deals have been with the Braves and Twins suggests declining interest from better teams.

 

 there is almost zero upside to this move for the Twins.

 

IOW- a Terry Ryan match made in heaven?

 

Yep... "I see no issue" ... nothing to see here... move along...

[Loosey]

In a normal season I would be fine with these types of transactions to build depth or add bullpen parts.  I'm not upset about it, but I would much rather have them move up young arms instead.  Sean Burnett does nothing for me as a fan.  Chargois or one of the other deserving young arms could be both exiting and actually improve the pen. 

[Thrylos]

 

It's a goddamn minor league signing. There is no issue here. 

 

So was the David Murphy.  And there was no issue until the people who are ru(i)ning the Twins decided to DFA John Hicks and lost him.

 

That's the problem here.  Ryan will get Burnett to the majors, and unless he 60-days the "proven closer" someone who can help the Twins more next season (because they are helpless this one) will get lost  

[Brandon Warne]

 

So was the David Murphy.  And there was no issue until the people who are ru(i)ning the Twins decided to DFA John Hicks and lost him.

 

That's the problem here.  Ryan will get Burnett to the majors, and unless he 60-days the "proven closer" someone who can help the Twins more next season (because they are helpless this one) will get lost  

 

Like Darin Mastroianni? Pat Dean? 

 

I just don't understand how we've all decided John Hicks is a loss. That was a weird, frankly brutal situation but the fallout was Berrios making it to the big leagues, ultimately. I just can't get too wound up about it. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

In a normal season I would be fine with these types of transactions to build depth or add bullpen parts.  I'm not upset about it, but I would much rather have them move up young arms instead.  Sean Burnett does nothing for me as a fan.  Chargois or one of the other deserving young arms could be both exiting and actually improve the pen. 

 

Chargois is deserving until he comes up and walks the first three batters he faces and then Terry ruined him. You can't win right now no matter what you do -- and that's not a joke, based on results either.

 

Let's keep in mind we're still talking about a pitcher who is fewer than 20 innings removed from walking 5.5 -- FIVE. POINT. FIVE. -- batters per nine last year. I'd err on the side of caution too, and I don't have any skin on the line. 

[amjgt]

I think the shorthand for Minor League Deals need to be "MiLD"

 

It works, because that's the hottest anyone feels about them.

[Loosey]

 

Chargois is deserving until he comes up and walks the first three batters he faces and then Terry ruined him. You can't win right now no matter what you do -- and that's not a joke, based on results either.

 

Let's keep in mind we're still talking about a pitcher who is fewer than 20 innings removed from walking 5.5 -- FIVE. POINT. FIVE. -- batters per nine last year. I'd err on the side of caution too, and I don't have any skin on the line. 

Fair point. 

 

I just think IF they can use young guys they should give them run first.  If they can't cut it or aren't ready yet, THEN go out and sign the older vet to a minor league deal.  As I mentioned in my first post, in any normal season I would be fine with this signing and most would actually think nothing of it to be honest.  This season is just so off the rails that even the smallest insignificant thing will set people off.  I'm not upset about this signing, and I do understand that everything can't be about the younger players and at some point healthy viable bodies will be needed.  Personally, I think this deal is a move they are making to get ready to put someone on the DL (May) and temporarily replace him with Burnett. 

 

I would love to see Chargois up even with his past walk issues.  But I understand the Twins tentativeness on it.  I just hope they look at each call up individually and not look at what happened with player A or player B to make decisions on player C.

[Brandon Warne]

 

Fair point. 

 

I just think IF they can use young guys they should give them run first.  If they can't cut it or aren't ready yet, THEN go out and sign the older vet to a minor league deal.  As I mentioned in my first post, in any normal season I would be fine with this signing and most would actually think nothing of it to be honest.  This season is just so off the rails that even the smallest insignificant thing will set people off.  I'm not upset about this signing, and I do understand that everything can't be about the younger players and at some point healthy viable bodies will be needed.  Personally, I think this deal is a move they are making to get ready to put someone on the DL (May) and temporarily replace him with Burnett. 

 

I would love to see Chargois up even with his past walk issues.  But I understand the Twins tentativeness on it.  I just hope they look at each call up individually and not look at what happened with player A or player B to make decisions on player C.

 

It might be worth trying but you and I both know how MLB decisions are made. 

 

1. Give veteran a shot

2. Let kid prove he's worth it

3. Let veteran absolutely prove he has nothing

4. Kid gets the shot

 

I don't think the Twins are the only team to do this. And beyond that, I don't think it's completely wrong. But! This year it's been the sort of deal where they've had to go back to the vet. Or in this case, they plunged deeper into the minors (Dean) rather than going back to the vet (Milone). I just don't get that. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Still not encouraging that he's been dropped by 3 teams in the last two months ...

I'm afraid you are viewing this through the wrong lens. This player is so good that four teams have now wanted him this season.

[Thrylos]

 

Like Darin Mastroianni? Pat Dean? 

 

I just don't understand how we've all decided John Hicks is a loss. That was a weird, frankly brutal situation but the fallout was Berrios making it to the big leagues, ultimately. I just can't get too wound up about it. 

 

I'd rather have Pat Dean than Burnett.  The book has not closed on Dean.

 

Hicks hit .388/.426/.510 after he left for AA Detroit and was just promoted to AAA.  Plus he has thrown out 50% of the SB attempts.   He is 26.  I'd rather have him in the majors today than Suzuki.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Chargois is deserving until he comes up and walks the first three batters he faces and then Terry ruined him. You can't win right now no matter what you do -- and that's not a joke, based on results either.

 

Let's keep in mind we're still talking about a pitcher who is fewer than 20 innings removed from walking 5.5 -- FIVE. POINT. FIVE. -- batters per nine last year. I'd err on the side of caution too, and I don't have any skin on the line. 

That's fine if you don't want to call up Chargois today (although rostering Burnett will make it more difficult to roster Chargois in a month or two too).

 

But what exactly is the upside or the end game with a signing like Burnett in a lost season?  He almost certainly can't be traded, and he brings no team control beyond 2016.  Stopping the bullpen bleeding might be nice, but if it means Burnett finishes out the year here, that's a lot less evaluation opportunities for guys who might have a future here, from the top guys like Chargois down to Rogers.  Jason Wheeler might need a look, he will be Rule 5 eligible again if not added back to the 40-man roster.  Same with O'Rourke.  Even Buddy Boshers, if he somehow worked out, would offer a whole ton of team control, like Fien circa 2011.

 

Oh, and the most obvious candidates to be optioned for Burnett are May and Pressly, both in their last option year so we'd like to get as much data on them as we can, even if it means riding some MLB struggles.

 

Letting Burnett take those reps, like Duensing before him, only makes it more likely we won't have a cohesive bullpen strategy in the offseason and into 2017 again.

[diehardtwinsfan]

As bad as the pen has been, there's room for this guy and Chargois at the major league level for what it's worth.  Plenty of guys likely to be removed at some point.  I've been on record saying I think JT needs a bit more of a sample in AAA, and I'm guessing that by mid to late June, if he's still doing what he's doing he should get the call. 

 

At AA, our bigger names have been hurt at this point.  I'm hoping this is just AAA depth and have no issues with it in that scenario.  If not, I'd rather give Chargois/Boshers a chance over this guy.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm afraid you are viewing this through the wrong lens. This player is so good that four teams have now wanted him this season.

Albeit four AAA teams, so far.

[nicksaviking]

 

It might be worth trying but you and I both know how MLB decisions are made. 

 

1. Give veteran a shot

2. Let kid prove he's worth it

3. Let veteran absolutely prove he has nothing

4. Kid gets the shot

 

I don't think the Twins are the only team to do this. And beyond that, I don't think it's completely wrong. But! This year it's been the sort of deal where they've had to go back to the vet. Or in this case, they plunged deeper into the minors (Dean) rather than going back to the vet (Milone). I just don't get that. 

 

Not all teams do that, and I wouldn't think it's the best philosophy for a team that's 11-31.

 

The Rangers just promoted a guy who's had a total of 17 IP in the past half decade and before he went into the slammer he was a shortstop. And the Rangers are a contender.

[Loosey]

 

It might be worth trying but you and I both know how MLB decisions are made. 

 

1. Give veteran a shot

2. Let kid prove he's worth it

3. Let veteran absolutely prove he has nothing

4. Kid gets the shot

 

I don't think the Twins are the only team to do this. And beyond that, I don't think it's completely wrong. But! This year it's been the sort of deal where they've had to go back to the vet. Or in this case, they plunged deeper into the minors (Dean) rather than going back to the vet (Milone). I just don't get that.

Yeah, that's the hierarchy of MLB.  I don't know, I just thought after a historically bad start the team would give in to the temptation to business as usual and just say "eff it" lets see what some of these kids can do before we grab some guy who 10 other teams didn't want. 

 

Maybe that will still happen at some point this season before it's too late.  It's all up to how the Front Office looks at things.  I also am beginning to wonder if, I know it's a long-shot, Pohlad has given Ryan and Molitor a "turn things around ultimatum".  If you they play the kids they will most likely continue to lose at a historic rate.  But soak up every last drop a veteran has and they may be able to scrape together a better last 3/4 of a season.

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

In a bullpen that gets no grounders, I actually kind of like it. 

 

If you'd have told me this morning the Twins would sign a lefty today, I'd have bet the house on Duensing though.

 

Burnett is interesting. He's been tough on lefties before and costs nothing. Worth a shot. He's not a needle mover, but at this best he's been a steady bullpen arm. I see no issue.

I will pile on, but I also mean this as an honest question.

 

What difference does it make that Burnett throws left-handed?

 

LHB are 0-18 against Abad, with 1:5 BB:K

LHB are 0-6 against O'Rourke, with 2:2 BB:K

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

As bad as the pen has been, there's room for this guy and Chargois at the major league level for what it's worth. 

Barely.  The only guys to bump (option) in the pen right now are Rogers, May, and Pressly, all who need MLB evaluation opportunities heading into the offseason.  And once added, Burnett can't be optioned himself, so he's potentially taking ~3 months from one of those guys, or Boshers, Wheeler, or Dean (if he's pushed out of the rotation), etc..

 

At AA, our bigger names have been hurt at this point.  I'm hoping this is just AAA depth and have no issues with it in that scenario.  If not, I'd rather give Chargois/Boshers a chance over this guy.

A team and player don't sign minor league deals with 15-20 day opt out clauses for "AAA depth".  It's to get a look at the player for possible MLB promotion.  We'll see if the Twins evaluators disagree with the previous 3 organizations that have cut Burnett loose the past few months.

[tobi0040]

Except the Twins don't do this. When the Twins actually do hit on a reclamation project, instead of flipping them while they are hot, they hold onto them for so long, that all the positive contributions are eventually canceled out.

And they prioritize reps to these types because our GM thinks it is fun.

 

Over the last few years we have used about 15 picks in the first five rounds on relievers. This strategy is silly to begin with, but even sillier when they are in AA and AAA and a 40 win team signs a 33 year old instead of using them

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Not all teams do that, and I wouldn't think it's the best philosophy for a team that's 11-31.

How about for a team that's 11-33?

[nicksaviking]

 

And they prioritize reps to these types because our GM thinks it is fun.

Over the last few years we have used about 15 picks in the first five rounds on relievers. This strategy is silly to begin with, but even sillier when they are in AA and AAA and a 40 win team signs a 33 year old instead of using them

 

I don't know that he thinks it's fun.

 

But just like most of us, if we score big on a prediction, fantasy player, or get in on the ground floor of a hit TV show, we tend to be proud of our take and perhaps ride it longer than we otherwise would. I bet this happens a lot with amateurs on the stock market also.

[nicksaviking]

 

How about for a team that's 11-33?

 

Good lord, I'm starting to block-out games now?

 

Tell me it's still Sunday or I might be late for work.