Awesome brawl at Texas

[gunnarthor]

 

Yeah, that makes one of us. The shots of young children yelling at Bautista and gesturing toward the field in ways that caused the camera to have to pan away immediately certainly helped me to debate humanity's future.

I assume your ire and concern for humanity extends to football and hockey fights, too?

[Thrylos]

 

30 seems on the low side, frankly. 90 would suit me better. Lesser suspensions (on the order of 2 to 5 games) and fines for the others involved, but that one punch is far far beyond the stupid "unwritten rules" about bat flipping and retaliation and dirty slides that the fight had been operating under until that point.

 

For that matter, and I'm sure the CBA doesn't allow it, but a drug test on Odor might prove illuminating. 'Roid Rage? Nah, just Idiocy Rage, probably.

 

You assume that Odor punched Bautista because of his bat flip last season.  I don't think that it was it.  Ancient History.

 

I think that Odor was reacting to Bautista's dirty slide that could had broken his leg.  Odor was provoked and Bautista threatened his physical safety first.  

[gunnarthor]

Honestly, one of my favorite parts about things like this is reading all the articles where the columnists turn into politicians fearing for our children.  SI's Jon Taylor was the first up.  Baseball has a "culture of toxic masculinity".  Wow.  It's like he's never watched sports before.  

[David HK]

 

Good analysis of boxing (though I know nothing about it). However, in this instance, a slug in the face was the last thing Bautista expected. So ... I could do the same thing to someone I meet walking down the sidewalk.

 

Hope Odor gets a 30-game suspension.

Yes, it's definitely worthy of a suspension, and it's a black mark on the game.  But, gotta disagree with you, tho, on the expectation factor.  Joey Bats was out to get some payback for getting plunked, and I don't think a smack in the chops was the last thing he expected.  I think he fully expected something to go off.  In fact, he got a two-handed shove in the chest first, then he stepped back up, so---  it wasn't a sucker punch, that's for sure.   I grew up playing ball, and ice hockey, back in the 60's and 70's. Chippy stuff got answered, hard.   But people didn't try to end a guy's career, or damage their lives over it.  

 

But the modern game, and the stakes involved....  the way Joey B went into second was a little over and above, and wasn't about to be shrugged off.  Going at a guy's knees is going at his very livelihood- and when you're talking about guys who came from the extreme poverty of places like Venezuela or the Dominican, it's now or never for them to earn the dough that will lift themselves and their families out of something most of us in America can't easily fathom.  So yeh, there may be a sensitivity that can transcend politeness that comes into play.

 

All that said, I'm glad nobody got hurt out of the whole deal, and someone certainly could have.  In our modern age, it's blown up in a way that wouldn't have been possible only a few short years ago.  It would have been something that somebody said somebody saw, and part of the next day's newspaper article, and on to other things.  Now, it's a spectacle for millions to see.  Over and over again.

 

I just don't know what to say about that.

 

 

[biggentleben]

 

I assume your ire and concern for humanity extends to football and hockey fights, too?

 

Once again, I've not referenced the fight on the field. Overpaid, overly coddled players throwing a fit on their field of play is not a story. The behavior of the fans in the stands is what was appalling to me.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Honestly, one of my favorite parts about things like this is reading all the articles where the columnists turn into politicians fearing for our children.  SI's Jon Taylor was the first up.  Baseball has a "culture of toxic masculinity".  Wow.  It's like he's never watched sports before.  

I got your "culture of toxic masculinity" .............

Fill in the rest   

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

I'm still trying to get past the title of this thread ... how is any brawl in any sport 'awesome?'

Well, what if the mascots get into it and the Phillie Phanatic takes off his big shoe and starts wailing on Youppie with it? That would be pretty sweet. 

[HitInAPinch]

A little nostalgia.   I was watching this game on TV. 

 

http://www.startribune.com/a-memorable-baseball-brawl-at-met-stadium/202854041/

 

It was comically watching Craig Kusick run from pile to pile, grabbed Brewer's and tossing them aside.  Bobby Darwin was pretty active, too. 

[Vanimal46]

1 step forward, 3 steps back in the sport of baseball with this silliness. Bautista called it "cowardly" that the Rangers waited until his final at-bat of the series to do this retaliation, and I agree 100%. You can not convince me that throwing a baseball at a player for succeeding against you is a reasonable solution. 

[d-mac]

 

Once again, I've not referenced the fight on the field. Overpaid, overly coddled players throwing a fit on their field of play is not a story. The behavior of the fans in the stands is what was appalling to me.

 

Have you ever been to a hockey game?

[gunnarthor]

 

Once again, I've not referenced the fight on the field. Overpaid, overly coddled players throwing a fit on their field of play is not a story. The behavior of the fans in the stands is what was appalling to me.

No, I got that.  But have you seen fans at football and hockey fights?  It's pretty common.  Honestly, unless the crowd is chanting something racist (like some soccer fans have) or throwing batteries (hello, Philly!), I think they can do what they want.  Cheering for your team during a baseball brawl isn't that big of a deal. Frankly, I'm much more bothered by fans who do tomahawk chops at Atlanta games or Florida St games (I say this with no intent to label you, I know you are a Braves fan but you are also a darn good poster and bring lots of interesting things to TD).  

[gunnarthor]

 

1 step forward, 3 steps back in the sport of baseball with this silliness. Bautista called it "cowardly" that the Rangers waited until his final at-bat of the series to do this retaliation, and I agree 100%. You can not convince me that throwing a baseball at a player for succeeding against you is a reasonable solution. 

I dunno know.  Hurting the other teams players seemed to work out ok for the Saints against Favre.  

[David HK]

 

I have a lot of appreciation for how difficult boxing is. You have to be strong, you have to have endurance, you have to have quickness and you have to use strategy. Top flight boxers are incredible athletes.

But boxing is the only sport in which the goal is to purposely inflict a severe brain injury on your opponent. The world would be better off if it was illegal. Sweet science my @$$.

I can only speak from my own experience, but of all the rounds I went, there was never, ever, once a thought of inflicting injury on any opponent.   Such is not, and should not be, the object of that sport. I'm greatly sickened by comments like those of Tyson's, in the past, where he'd relish in the damage he could do.  Just as sickened by NFL players who revel in the cheap shots they've taken, or the reaction of fans to a player being knocked senseless on the field.  

 

There is an elemental factor in many sports, and often great risk that comes with great remuneration. Race car drivers, downhill skiers, mountain climbers, and others risk life and limb every time out.  But people still pursue these things.  It's the challenge you choose to accept.

 

Again, based only on a personal level, I adored the challenge of the ring.  To go against your basic human nature of moving away from a threat, and instead moving toward it- it's not something a person usually does in their daily life.  To find out what you have inside of you, in a way in which the answer is immediate and clear-  not a lot of people get asked that question, and not many ask it of themselves. Every bout, every round of sparring even, when that bell rang, I was scared sh*tless.  To make yourself go forward, then, is the challenge you accept.   It's not a macho thing.  Along the way, I coached plenty of young women as well as young men who wanted to find that out about themselves.

 

People find any kind of challenges, it's just part of our nature.  Physical contact sports don't have to stand out as the only way to do it.  But it's a way I chose, and I wouldn't denigrate  another's path to the same conclusion.  There is a science, and a sweetness, a respect for your opponent.  And while the risk is great, the intent is not evil.  At least, it shouldn't be.  

[DaveW]

Odor is a punk and one of the dirtiest players in all of baseball. He should be suspended 30 games, Bush should be suspended 10 games. This crap needs to end, what did Bautista do again exactly? Oh yeah, he hit a game winning home run against them in the playoffs, clearly that deserves a cheap shot to the face and a bean ball.

[jbissell]

 

Bautista would have easily got a shot in if it weren't for Adrian Beltre grabbing him almost immediately after Odor hit him and restraining him the entire scene thereafter.

 

The worst part of all this was the freaking Texas crowd. Cheering as loud as the stadium had been all day when Bautista was hit initially. Then even louder and a STANDING OVATION when Bush was taken out of the game. Chanting Odor's name after he's removed from the game. What the hell?

That bat flip in the playoffs last year is going to stick in the Ranger's players and fans heads for life! Showboating to that extreme is a relatively recent phenomenon that is trending upwards in frequency, and we should be expecting these types of fights more in the future. 

 

If Texas was the home team in that playoff game, the fight would have already taken place at that game. And yes, I would not have put it past Bautista to do that bat flip in front of the Rangers fans.

[gunnarthor]

 

Odor is a punk and one of the dirtiest players in all of baseball. He should be suspended 30 games, Bush should be suspended 10 games. This crap needs to end, what did Bautista do again exactly? Oh yeah, he hit a game winning home run against them in the playoffs, clearly that deserves a cheap shot to the face and a bean ball.

C'mon, you don't have to make up excuses here.  Odor beat up Bautista because of the slide, not the bat flip.  

[jbissell]

 

Odor is a punk and one of the dirtiest players in all of baseball. He should be suspended 30 games, Bush should be suspended 10 games. This crap needs to end, what did Bautista do again exactly? Oh yeah, he hit a game winning home run against them in the playoffs, clearly that deserves a cheap shot to the face and a bean ball.

He did the bat flipping equivalent of going up to the Texas Rangers collective faces and saying "In your effing faces!" In my opinion, its human nature to recoil at something like that, especially in a playoff atmosphere. 

 

Im not condoning what Odor did, but it doesnt surprise me in the least that Odor did it, and it wont be the last time it happens in baseball in general.

[TheLeviathan]

 

No I think that when one guy tried to break the other's leg with a dirty slide, he got punched on the face by his intended victim.

 

I completely agree about the take out slide -  but I think the HBP started it.  It's all bad blood from a stupid bat flip.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Have you ever been to a hockey game?

 

Since when did "yeah, but he did it too!" become a viable excuse?  I tell 7 year olds that S**&* doesn't fly - why the hell does it now?

 

It's not ok in hockey or football or anywhere.  It's just dumb and meaningless.

[DaveW]

 

C'mon, you don't have to make up excuses here.  Odor beat up Bautista because of the slide, not the bat flip.  

It wasn't a dirty slide.

[DaveW]

 

 

Since when did "yeah, but he did it too!" become a viable excuse?  I tell 7 year olds that S**&* doesn't fly - why the hell does it now?

 

It's not ok in hockey or football or anywhere.  It's just dumb and meaningless.

For one thing, it's occurring much and much less in Hockey now, and besides, Hockey is a much more physical game then baseball anyways, hard checks, blocked pucks with the body/face/etc are part of the game.

 

I love how people say that a bat flip is wrong, yet a sucker punch and a brawl is "ok". Especially one started by Odor, who is one of the dirtiest players in baseball to begin with. 30 game minimum suspension to Odor, sucker punches can and have killed people, fortunately for his sake he is about 8 inches and 100 pound less than his victim in this case. Still 30 games, minimum.

[gocgo]

The curious thing about Joey Bats is that he gets all defensive if asked about PED's.  I think it's fair to question it.  I think he should expect the questions.

 

After hitting only 59 home runs in his first six seasons, over the course of 575 games and 2,038 plate appearances, Bautista exploded in 2010, hitting 54 home runs with 124 RBI and 109 runs while taking 100 walks and leading the AL with 351 total bases.  Not only were the numbers all career highs, but many of Bautista's numbers were better than the combined totals of any two previous seasons combined.

 

Yikes!  I don't care who the player is, you bust out like that and people are going to ask questions.

 

Personally, I've thought that Toronto was a hotbed for PEDs for years...never mind baseball.  When Anthony Galea (Sports medicine Dr. for Arod and Tiger Woods) got caught coming from Toronto into the US with HGH...and this wasn't his first run in involving illegal PEDs...it set off a red flag.  Chris Colabello was busted earlier this year for steroids.

 

I know.  I'm off topic.  Not trying to fire up a whole debate.  Just my 2 pennies on Joey Bats.

 

[gunnarthor]

 

It wasn't a dirty slide.

Actually, I agree but I'm pretty sure Odor, the Rangers and most people don't.

[d-mac]

 

Since when did "yeah, but he did it too!" become a viable excuse?  I tell 7 year olds that S**&* doesn't fly - why the hell does it now?

 

It's not ok in hockey or football or anywhere.  It's just dumb and meaningless.

 

Not disagreeing with you. But my point was that a large portion of hockey fans watch/attend games just to see the fights. Hockey, football, boxing, UFC (what a joke of a sport) are all incredibly violent and popular sports. The fans in the stands cheer for the mindless, injurious, and unnecessary violence. Not saying the brawl wasn't disgusting, which it was, nor were the fans reactions positive by any means, but feigning outrage over a fairly rare occurrence in baseball with plenty of better examples to be outraged over is a bit hypocritical, IMO. 

[Vanimal46]

 

The curious thing about Joey Bats is that he gets all defensive if asked about PED's.  I think it's fair to question it.  I think he should expect the questions.

 

After hitting only 59 home runs in his first six seasons, over the course of 575 games and 2,038 plate appearances, Bautista exploded in 2010, hitting 54 home runs with 124 RBI and 109 runs while taking 100 walks and leading the AL with 351 total bases.  Not only were the numbers all career highs, but many of Bautista's numbers were better than the combined totals of any two previous seasons combined.

 

Yikes!  I don't care who the player is, you bust out like that and people are going to ask questions.

 

Personally, I've thought that Toronto was a hotbed for PEDs for years...never mind baseball.  When Anthony Galea (Sports medicine Dr. for Arod and Tiger Woods) got caught coming from Toronto into the US with HGH...and this wasn't his first run in involving illegal PEDs...it set off a red flag.  Chris Colabello was busted earlier this year for steroids.

 

I know.  I'm off topic.  Not trying to fire up a whole debate.  Just my 2 pennies on Joey Bats.

Did I miss a positive test from Bautista over the last 6 years? I'd tread lightly when it comes to accusing players of that. There's already enough witch hunting in the MLB.. 

[gunnarthor]

 

Since when did "yeah, but he did it too!" become a viable excuse?  I tell 7 year olds that S**&* doesn't fly - why the hell does it now?

 

It's not ok in hockey or football or anywhere.  It's just dumb and meaningless.

Because sports are a highly competitive thing.  Go to your local YMCA and you'll see some guy throw a racketball racket or a basketball player use language they'd never use in an office building.  And that's just guys working out.  Professional athletes, whatever the sport, are more competitive than the idiot in your office who gets bent out of shape because his fantasy football QB sucked last weekend.

 

I think the idea that professional sports guys are supposed to be even-keel at all times and act responsibly is ludicrous.  Professional sports don't encourage that.  Hell, look at the dust up Richard Sherman got from just talking smack when asked a question by Erin Andrews a few years ago. People expected him to not be tightly wound seconds after the other team went at him (and failed) to score a game winning touchdown?  

 

So in every sport - every sport - when opponents get close enough to jaw at each other, physical stuff happens.  To act like it shouldn't - or to hold baseball to a different standard, is simply not realistic.

[d-mac]

 

Did I miss a positive test from Bautista over the last 6 years? I'd tread lightly when it comes to accusing players of that. There's already enough witch hunting in the MLB.. 

 

Bautista did also make a major overhaul to his swing when he came to Toronto. He also only had a full season of at-bats once before 2010. 

[Vanimal46]

 

Bautista did also make a major overhaul to his swing when he came to Toronto. He also only had a full season of at-bats once before 2010. 

That makes a lot more sense than Bautista's been juicing for the last 6 years without getting caught. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Not disagreeing with you. But my point was that a large portion of hockey fans watch/attend games just to see the fights. Hockey, football, boxing, UFC (what a joke of a sport) are all incredibly violent and popular sports. The fans in the stands cheer for the mindless, injurious, and unnecessary violence. Not saying the brawl wasn't disgusting, which it was, nor were the fans reactions positive by any means, but feigning outrage over a fairly rare occurrence in baseball with plenty of better examples to be outraged over is a bit hypocritical, IMO. 

 

On a hockey board I'd be right with you, though the trend in hockey is a reduction in fighting and a variety of the goonish behavior.  And the sport is better for it.  

 

This issue here is that people are celebrating how "awesome" it is.  There is nothing awesome about this.  It's just dumb and unnecessary.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think the idea that professional sports guys are supposed to be even-keel at all times and act responsibly is ludicrous.  

 

There is a wide range of alternatives between throwing punches on the field and acting like it's tea time.  

 

Any of us who played sports as a kid understand the competitive nature and the emotions that come with it.  But I know I got my butt benched if I acted even a fraction of this level of disrespect towards the opponents or the officials.  

 

The real double standard is that we expect fair play at every level but professional - where ridiculous behavior seems to be encouraged because it's confused with "passion".