Let May close; and where the heck is Polanco?

[HitInAPinch]

 

I wonder if they read them for entertainment purposes? I wonder if they take some of this personally?

 

The former, not the latter  

[Shane Wahl]

Good thread. First two posts are totally spot on.

[Thrylos]

The Twins will keep Jepsen as the closer if not for anything else, just because the equally inept Perkins will seem like an improvement when he gets his job back...

[Pardon My Dinger]

Trying to find a nice way to say this...oh well, this team doesn't need to worry about having a 'closer,' per se. They just need to start giving May the ball during critical innings.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Polanco still on the bench today.

 

Per baseballpress.com:

 

1. Joe Mauer (L) DH

2. Eduardo Nunez ® SS

3. Brian Dozier ® 2B

4. Trevor Plouffe ® 3B

5. Miguel Sano ® RF

6. Byung Ho Park ® 1B

7. Eddie Rosario (L) LF

8. Juan Centeno (L) C

9. Danny Santana (S) CF

[Mike Sixel]

 

Polanco still on the bench today.

Per baseballpress.com:

1. Joe Mauer (L) DH
2. Eduardo Nunez ® SS
3. Brian Dozier ® 2B
4. Trevor Plouffe ® 3B
5. Miguel Sano ® RF
6. Byung Ho Park ® 1B
7. Eddie Rosario (L) LF
8. Juan Centeno (L) C
9. Danny Santana (S) CF

 

I can't wait for a house cleaning. They seem completely unaware that they need to play youth. 

 

For a team this far into the rebuild......look a that roster.

[alarp33]

 

I can't wait for a house cleaning. They seem completely unaware that they need to play youth. 

 

For a team this far into the rebuild......look a that roster.

 

Nice to see Arcia and Rosario have settled into a weird little platoon where one of them has a bad game and is on the bench the next day. 

 

PS: Danny Santana's ops is under .600, again

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I can't wait for a house cleaning. They seem completely unaware that they need to play youth. 

 

For a team this far into the rebuild......look a that roster.

Re: the Housecleaning

 

As stated on the other thread I somewhat disagree, but honestly there is not a single good argument to be made against it at this point.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

For a team hitting .236, it understandable that you want to keep Nunez's .370 average in the lineup.  As long as he hitting the way he is, I would call that an unusual case and you have to keep him in the lineup.

 

Last night 5 out of the 6 hits were by players in positions Polanco can play.

 

Molitor has options. He could play both Nunez and Polanco if he wanted to.

 

1. Move Rosario to center, Nunez to left, sit Santana. Polanco plays short.

 

2. Use Park as late inning PH (Baltimore closer is lefty), move someone else to DH, move Nunez around, Polanco plays short.

 

3. Rest Dozier, Polanco plays second.

[Jham]

I don't think making a bunch more knee-jerk decisions or moves made out of frustration bring us any closer to relevance.  May to closer?  How many opportunities do we expect him to have in that capacity? Back to the rotation maybe.  But we have to clear some more bodies first.  And there are others who I would rather see get that shot before May.  Berrios, Duffey, possibly Meyer.  

I've been a big supporter of Polanco and do feel that he can be a productive player.  That said, if you forced me to bet $500 on who would put up better numbers over the next 3 seasons, Polanco or Plouffe or Dozier, the players he's most likely to replace, I can't honestly say I'd feel confident either way.  Yes we have young players who may be part of our future.  But we also have a lot of young players who will not be good enough.  I'm not anxious to jettison options for the sake of promoting guys that aren't ready or don't figure to be better than what we have now even once they hit their primes.  From what I've seen from the team, our problem has certainly not been a failure to bring up players when they're ready or in an inability to move on from veterans, it has been three things: 1) an over-valuation of their prospects and belief that all will make it.  2) an inability or unwillingness to improve the team by moving guys at peak value, especially veterans but prospects as well (we may have taken a step in the right direction with Hicks and Hu in spite of the fact that the returns have been mixed); and 3) an utter inability to determine which prospects in our own organization are legitimately ready for the Major Leagues (or an inability to get them ready).  I'm trying to think of a single player who I think we waited too long to bring up.  Sano by a couple weeks?  Duffey by a couple weeks?  Gibson maybe a month?  The one guy that comes to my mind is Berrios, but that has nothing to do with his development and more to do with the team still being in the playoff picture.  

Now contrast that with the players that have come up and clearly were nowhere near ready.  Now look at how many of those were relied upon heavily (or still relied on heavily).  Now explain to me why I should be supporting forcing the issue by throwing these kids to the wolves (unnecessarily I might add) when even the ones we bank on being ready have more often than not been nowhere near?  It's May 11, I'm guessing we'll see us in rebuild mode after the break.  I for one, am not that concerned that we're not going to see enough these prospects to make a fair determination on their future with the team, because I believe we should mostly know that by the time they make the big leagues.  I'm much more concerned that we seem to have no idea who will be successful or not and have to resort to short trial roles to make these determinations.  And because we can't sort through our own prospects with any level of confidence, we hold on to all of them, accelerate them with dismal results, and have to sign either veteran stop gaps (usually lower talent guys) or higher talent veterans who cost more and require longer commitments.  Who's scouting our minor leagues?

[Mike Sixel]

Things that should have happened 2 years ago are not knee jerk reactions.......

 

The veterans on this team are not good enough. The game is a young man's game right now. The Twins have been drafting and developing and trading for this timeframe for 4-5 years now. And, all they have to show is May in the bullpen....since Sano was acquired before that time frame. That is it. 1 player. (ok, Park maybe, but he's 29, does anyone think that when the rest of the team is good, he'll even be here?).

 

It isn't knee jerk to change this org, it is past time.

[jokin]

 

Nice to see Arcia and Rosario have settled into a weird little platoon where one of them has a bad game and is on the bench the next day. 

 

PS: Danny Santana's ops is under .600, again

 

I'm wondering if Rosario can top Arcia's amazingly embarrassing reverse bicycle kick of that muffed Jones flyball in the 9th inning?

 

(One thing about baseball more than other sports, no matter how much you watch the game, you always see a dozen things each season you've never seen before- usually by the worst teams)

 

http://m.mlb.com/bal/video/topic/8879234/v681173983/balmin-jones-drives-in-a-pair-to-give-orioles-lead/?c_id=bal#

 

 

[jokin]

 

Molitor has options. He could play both Nunez and Polanco if he wanted to.

1. Move Rosario to center, Nunez to left, sit Santana. Polanco plays short.

2. Use Park as late inning PH (Baltimore closer is lefty), move someone else to DH, move Nunez around, Polanco plays short.

3. Rest Dozier, Polanco plays second.

 

It appears that Reasons # 1 and 2 are no longer operative- the Twins appear to have made the decision that Polanco doesn't have the chops for SS- which means he doesn't have a full-time position available as long as Dozier and Plouffe are around- which means his current role appear to be that he's possible trade bait sweetener.

[jokin]

 

.  Who's scouting our minor leagues?

 

Based on the recently celebrated "new" hire.... gulp... Gardy?

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't think making a bunch more knee-jerk decisions or moves made out of frustration bring us any closer to relevance. May to closer? How many opportunities do we expect him to have in that capacity? Back to the rotation maybe. But we have to clear some more bodies first. And there are others who I would rather see get that shot before May. Berrios, Duffey, possibly Meyer.

 

I've been a big supporter of Polanco and do feel that he can be a productive player. That said, if you forced me to bet $500 on who would put up better numbers over the next 3 seasons, Polanco or Plouffe or Dozier, the players he's most likely to replace, I can't honestly say I'd feel confident either way. Yes we have young players who may be part of our future. But we also have a lot of young players who will not be good enough. I'm not anxious to jettison options for the sake of promoting guys that aren't ready or don't figure to be better than what we have now even once they hit their primes. From what I've seen from the team, our problem has certainly not been a failure to bring up players when they're ready or in an inability to move on from veterans, it has been three things: 1) an over-valuation of their prospects and belief that all will make it. 2) an inability or unwillingness to improve the team by moving guys at peak value, especially veterans but prospects as well (we may have taken a step in the right direction with Hicks and Hu in spite of the fact that the returns have been mixed); and 3) an utter inability to determine which prospects in our own organization are legitimately ready for the Major Leagues (or an inability to get them ready). I'm trying to think of a single player who I think we waited too long to bring up. Sano by a couple weeks? Duffey by a couple weeks? Gibson maybe a month? The one guy that comes to my mind is Berrios, but that has nothing to do with his development and more to do with the team still being in the playoff picture.

 

Now contrast that with the players that have come up and clearly were nowhere near ready. Now look at how many of those were relied upon heavily (or still relied on heavily). Now explain to me why I should be supporting forcing the issue by throwing these kids to the wolves (unnecessarily I might add) when even the ones we bank on being ready have more often than not been nowhere near? It's May 11, I'm guessing we'll see us in rebuild mode after the break. I for one, am not that concerned that we're not going to see enough these prospects to make a fair determination on their future with the team, because I believe we should mostly know that by the time they make the big leagues. I'm much more concerned that we seem to have no idea who will be successful or not and have to resort to short trial roles to make these determinations. And because we can't sort through our own prospects with any level of confidence, we hold on to all of them, accelerate them with dismal results, and have to sign either veteran stop gaps (usually lower talent guys) or higher talent veterans who cost more and require longer commitments. Who's scouting our minor leagues?

Well if Polanco isn't better than the guys we have now then we're screwed either way.

In case you haven't noticed, the guys we have now are 8-25.

There is no downside to playing Polanco every day.

[Twinfan & Dad]

I don't think making a bunch more knee-jerk decisions or moves made out of frustration bring us any closer to relevance.  May to closer?  How many opportunities do we expect him to have in that capacity? Back to the rotation maybe.  But we have to clear some more bodies first.  And there are others who I would rather see get that shot before May.  Berrios, Duffey, possibly Meyer.  

I've been a big supporter of Polanco and do feel that he can be a productive player.  That said, if you forced me to bet $500 on who would put up better numbers over the next 3 seasons, Polanco or Plouffe or Dozier, the players he's most likely to replace, I can't honestly say I'd feel confident either way.  Yes we have young players who may be part of our future.  But we also have a lot of young players who will not be good enough.  I'm not anxious to jettison options for the sake of promoting guys that aren't ready or don't figure to be better than what we have now even once they hit their primes.  From what I've seen from the team, our problem has certainly not been a failure to bring up players when they're ready or in an inability to move on from veterans, it has been three things: 1) an over-valuation of their prospects and belief that all will make it.  2) an inability or unwillingness to improve the team by moving guys at peak value, especially veterans but prospects as well (we may have taken a step in the right direction with Hicks and Hu in spite of the fact that the returns have been mixed); and 3) an utter inability to determine which prospects in our own organization are legitimately ready for the Major Leagues (or an inability to get them ready).  I'm trying to think of a single player who I think we waited too long to bring up.  Sano by a couple weeks?  Duffey by a couple weeks?  Gibson maybe a month?  The one guy that comes to my mind is Berrios, but that has nothing to do with his development and more to do with the team still being in the playoff picture.  

Now contrast that with the players that have come up and clearly were nowhere near ready.  Now look at how many of those were relied upon heavily (or still relied on heavily).  Now explain to me why I should be supporting forcing the issue by throwing these kids to the wolves (unnecessarily I might add) when even the ones we bank on being ready have more often than not been nowhere near?  It's May 11, I'm guessing we'll see us in rebuild mode after the break.  I for one, am not that concerned that we're not going to see enough these prospects to make a fair determination on their future with the team, because I believe we should mostly know that by the time they make the big leagues.  I'm much more concerned that we seem to have no idea who will be successful or not and have to resort to short trial roles to make these determinations.  And because we can't sort through our own prospects with any level of confidence, we hold on to all of them, accelerate them with dismal results, and have to sign either veteran stop gaps (usually lower talent guys) or higher talent veterans who cost more and require longer commitments.  Who's scouting our minor leagues?

 

 

We made the mistake of not trading Perkins when he had value. Do you really think Plouffe and Dozier will still be in their prime by the time the Twins are really ready to contend? They both are streaky hitters I give them that, but we have two young guys(Sano and Polanco) ready to play. Trade them both while they have value! As for Berrios closing WHY? HE IS OUR ONE GUY THAT MAYBE WILL BECOME A TRUE NUMBER 1 GUY since Santana. I do agree that May could start and probably be really good but also think he could be a great closer.

[Jham]

 

We made the mistake of not trading Perkins when he had value. Do you really think Plouffe and Dozier will still be in their prime by the time the Twins are really ready to contend? They both are streaky hitters I give them that, but we have two young guys(Sano and Polanco) ready to play. Trade them both while they have value! As for Berrios closing WHY? HE IS OUR ONE GUY THAT MAYBE WILL BECOME A TRUE NUMBER 1 GUY since Santana. I do agree that May could start and probably be really good but also think he could be a great closer.

I think I may have lost some of my clarity in the length of my original response.  NOT trading guys, both prospects and vets at their peak value, like Perk, was one of the 3 problems I suggested.  Do I think Plouffe and Dozier will be in their primes over the next few years... I guess so.  But my bigger point is that I would guess they'd both be better overall players than say Polanco or maybe even Kepler over the next 3 years, in which I will expect us to compete all 3 of those seasons.  I never said Berrios should close, just that he should have been called up last fall.  He's the 1 guy I think should have been called up sooner than he was.  May would likely be an average starter and a good to elite bull pen guy.  I'm fine with him closing, I just worry about his opportunities on this team to close.  

[Shane Wahl]

Mauer, 1B

Polanco, SS

Sano, 3B

Arcia, RF

Park, DH

Dozier, 2B

Rosario, LF

Catcher (god . .. just anyone)

Buxton, CF

 

Bench:

Kepler (rotated in with Rosario, Arcia, Mauer, and Park)

Santana

Nunez (the numbers are going to fall quickly soon)

Catcher (again god . . . just anyone)

 

By June 15.

LET IT ROLL.

 

And if they aren't going to bring up Chargois and Burdi, then the back end of the bullpen has to be Abad-Tonkin-May right now.

[Jham]

 

Well if Polanco isn't better than the guys we have now then we're screwed either way.
In case you haven't noticed, the guys we have now are 8-25.
There is no downside to playing Polanco every day.

Despite the condescending tone, I agree with most of your post.  As I've stated, I have been a big fan Polanco for several seasons.  That doesn't mean I think he will be a future All-Star 2B (like Dozier), or that he would hit 20+ HR and be top 3rd 5 in the next few seasons.  I think you hit the nail on the head. We might be screwed either way.  In which case playing Polanco doesn't get us any closer to our goal.  Playing Polanco doesn't get us a player better than Polanco.  Prospect projection isn't a science as discussed on another thread.  I don't think the problem with development and evaluation can be cured by simply calling up more prospects and hoping for the best.  That's the opposite of a plan.  We've actually hurt ourselves that way by exposing the flaws of the prospects we should have had reservations about.  

Unless we acknowledge that our prospects might not be that great, that our development might not be that great, and that our MiLB scouting has been almost counterproductive to the major league club, we're going to continue having this same debate of "what difference does it make" forever.  

[Twinfan & Dad]

I think I may have lost some of my clarity in the length of my original response.  NOT trading guys, both prospects and vets at their peak value, like Perk, was one of the 3 problems I suggested.  Do I think Plouffe and Dozier will be in their primes over the next few years... I guess so.  But my bigger point is that I would guess they'd both be better overall players than say Polanco or maybe even Kepler over the next 3 years, in which I will expect us to compete all 3 of those seasons.  I never said Berrios should close, just that he should have been called up last fall.  He's the 1 guy I think should have been called up sooner than he was.  May would likely be an average starter and a good to elite bull pen guy.  I'm fine with him closing, I just worry about his opportunities on this team to close.

I like your optimism. I hope we can compete but changes have to be made and the young guys are going to have to step up and the only way that will happen is major league experience. At this point I just don't have confidence in TR bringing in anybody either by trade or free agency to really help. Sounds like we are pretty much on the same page.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't think Dozier will be a top 3rd 2B in the coming years either........

[Hrbowski]

Keep him in the 8th inning. It is stupid to have your best relief pitcher in situations when you have a three run lead.

[DaveW]

Keep him in the 8th inning. It is stupid to have your best relief pitcher in situations when you have a three run lead.

whoa whoa whoa, the twins have had a 3 run lead at some point this year?

[Mike Sixel]

 

whoa whoa whoa, the twins have had a 3 run lead at some point this year?

 

I think that was a ....what do you call it.....hypothetical.

[Twinfan & Dad]

Somebody ANYBODY please explain to me how you bring Polanco up and just have him sit or give him a PH here and there. What is the thinking? I don't get it.

[Hrbowski]

 

whoa whoa whoa, the twins have had a 3 run lead at some point this year?

Surprisingly, yes.

[Steve Lein]

 

It appears that Reasons # 1 and 2 are no longer operative- the Twins appear to have made the decision that Polanco doesn't have the chops for SS- which means he doesn't have a full-time position available as long as Dozier and Plouffe are around- which means his current role appear to be that he's possible trade bait sweetener.

 

Unfortunately for the Polanco trade bait sweetener part, the Twins already sapped a lot of his value considering this is his last option year. Should have been traded as a prelude to Dozier's extension.

[Vanimal46]

 

Unfortunately for the Polanco trade bait sweetener part, the Twins already sapped a lot of his value considering this is his last option year. Should have been traded as a prelude to Dozier's extension.

Ugh, that is really disappointing if this is Polanco's last option year. The Twins have no idea what they have, and by next year he'll have to be on the MLB roster or risk losing him. 

[bluechipper]

 

Somebody ANYBODY please explain to me how you bring Polanco up and just have him sit or give him a PH here and there. What is the thinking? I don't get it.

Plouffe had a nice couple games, Dozier had a nice couple games, and Nunez was hitting .370 or something coming into the game today. I want Polanco to play too, but I think it's justifiable to sit him in this situation.

[bluechipper]

 

Keep him in the 8th inning. It is stupid to have your best relief pitcher in situations when you have a three run lead.

How is automatically giving May the 8th inning any better than automatically giving him the 9th inning?