Schwarber and Sano

[HitInAPinch]

OMG, is Sano fat again?  When the heck did that happen?

[Thrylos]

 

 Watching a 275 pound guy roll and fall like that is not very comforting.

 

Do you happen to watch NFL and/or College football?

 

FWIW, that particular ball in regular circumstances was Dozier's, but he was shifted.

[jimmer]

 

Do you happen to watch NFL and/or College football?

 

FWIW, that particular ball in regular circumstances was Dozier's, but he was shifted.

That's not at all how it looked to me.  A decent RF catches that fairly easily.  Sano was playing way back, as instructed, but still should have had that.  If not for misjudging it off the bat, it's caught.

[bluechipper]

 

Athletic "for his size." You know, compared to the other 275 pounders (Fielder, Sandoval, etc)

I know you're just joking, but Sandoval and Fielder pack their 275 lbs onto 5'11" frames.

[bluechipper]

 

Really? By this logic I should let my grand children put on a cape and jump off the top bunk like superman because...well they could get hurt anywhere. The fact is Sano is too big to play the outfield, maybe the biggest ever and it's an unwise and unecessary risk.

Sure, it's a little more of an injury risk than him playing 3rd base, but we are just talking about professional athletes running around and catching baseballs.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Sure, it's a little more of an injury risk than him playing 3rd base, but we are just talking about professional athletes running around and catching baseballs.

There is much more to it than that.

[bluechipper]

 

funny thing is, I'm pretty sure Schwarber is like 30 pounds lighter, right?  In any event, Schwarber's injury doesn't make me any more concerned about Sano.  I've been concerned about him (and our team defense) since the move.

In regards to the weight, Scwarber is also about 4 inches shorter than Sano, so that difference doesn't seem all that relevant. The defense is more concerning to me than the injury risk.

[bluechipper]

 

There is much more to it than that.

Is there though? Either you get hurt running into the center fielder, or you get hurt running into the wall. Am I missing something?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Is there though? Either you get hurt running into the center fielder, or you get hurt running into the wall. Am I missing something?

Yes. There is much more to playing outfield than just shagging flies in batting practice. Another way to think about it would be shooting baskets around a gym with a couple buddies, and then expecting that that's all it takes to go out and excel in a final four game.

[bluechipper]

 

Yes. There is much more to playing outfield than just shagging flies in batting practice. Another way to think about it would be shooting baskets around a gym with a couple buddies, and then expecting that that's all it takes to go out and excel in a final four game.

I get that. I was just talking about the injury risk part of it though.

 

Also, there's not someone defending you in the outfield or trying to tackle you, so the shagging fly balls in bp comparison to practicing shooting is kind of like practicing free throws. It's roughly the same in the game as it is in bp, except for now there are consequences for missing, and there are thousands of people watching you.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I get that. I was just talking about the injury risk part of it though.

 

Also, there's not someone defending you in the outfield or trying to tackle you, so the shagging fly balls in bp comparison to practicing shooting is kind of like practicing free throws. It's roughly the same in the game as it is in bp, except for now there are consequences for missing, and there are thousands of people watching you.

The increased injury risk of trying to do something at full speed that you've never done before should be a foregone conclusion. People spend lifetimes trying to get better at the skill they already know how to do well. Sano has never learned to play outfield now he's being asked to play it at full speed at the highest level but without any training or learning. It's much more likely than not that something will go wrong eventually as a direct result of that. Hopefully whatever happens to Sano isn't as bad as what happened to Schwarber.

[longstrangetrip]

I have been on board with the decision to move Sano to the OF right from the start, and the Schwarber incident doesn't change my opinion.  The Twins wanted to have Sano, Mauer, Plouffe and Park all in the lineup, and there were a few permutations they looked at.  Ultimately they didn't want to give up on giving an athletic 22-year-old a defensive postion he could master but making him a lifetime DH, and the memories of some disastrous 3b play in the minors made a move to third a frightening prospect.  We'll have to see how it turns out.  So far I have been impressed with three running catches he made in the first four games, and concerned about his judgement in diving for the blooper that got by him. 

 

Even though he runs well, I am concerned about Miguel reporting to camp at 280.  Regardless of where he plays on defense, carrying that kind of weight around on the base paths has to put a lot of strain on hips, knees, etc.  If he doesn't make a commitment to fitness, it's not unlikely that he will be a 300 pounder at 25, and that's not a pleasant prospect.  His slow start this spring notwithstanding, we need his bat in the lineup.  And the chance of injury is much higher at 280 than it would be if he got down to a more fit 250.  Let's hope he is mature and driven enough to start making some better diet and exercise choices.

[jimmer]

 

I have been on board with the decision to move Sano to the OF right from the start, and the Schwarber incident doesn't change my opinion.  The Twins wanted to have Sano, Mauer, Plouffe and Park all in the lineup, and there were a few permutations they looked at.  Ultimately they didn't want to give up on giving an athletic 22-year-old a defensive postion he could master but making him a lifetime DH, and the memories of some disastrous 3b play in the minors made a move to third a frightening prospect.  We'll have to see how it turns out.  So far I have been impressed with three running catches he made in the first four games, and concerned about his judgement in diving for the blooper that got by him. 

 

Even though he runs well, I am concerned about Miguel reporting to camp at 280.  Regardless of where he plays on defense, carrying that kind of weight around on the base paths has to put a lot of strain on hips, knees, etc.  If he doesn't make a commitment to fitness, it's not unlikely that he will be a 300 pounder at 25, and that's not a pleasant prospect.  His slow start this spring notwithstanding, we need his bat in the lineup.  And the chance of injury is much higher at 280 than it would be if he got down to a more fit 250.  Let's hope he is mature and driven enough to start making some better diet and exercise choices.

How did you feel about him running for a ball, putting his glove up, closing his eyes while looking away and then by pure luck catching it? Was that one of the ones that impressed you?

[longstrangetrip]

 

How did you feel about him running for a ball, putting his glove up, closing his eyes while looking away and then by pure luck catching it? Was that one of the ones that impressed you?

 

I didn't expect him to look pretty in the OF right away.  My hopes in the early going were that he would demonstrate an ability to track the ball, use his above average speed to get to the ball, and catch the ball.  So far he's exceeding my expectations in these three areas.  Hopefully as he gets more comfortable in the OF, he will do everything more gracefully than he is now.  I agree that he has looked clumsy at times in the early going, but I think that is to be expected.  I still maintain that you can coach any athetic ex-infielder to be at least an adequate outfielder.

[jimmer]

 

I didn't expect him to look pretty in the OF right away.  My hopes in the early going were that he would demonstrate an ability to track the ball, use his above average speed to get to the ball, and catch the ball.  So far he's exceeding my expectations in these three areas.  Hopefully as he gets more comfortable in the OF, he will do everything more gracefully than he is now.  I agree that he has looked clumsy at times in the early going, but I think that is to be expected.  I still maintain that you can coach any athetic ex-infielder to be at least an adequate outfielder.

Yeah, I think it's been pretty comically disastrous and that athletic ability hasn't been shown in the field at all yet. I haven't seen any above average speed for an OF on defense in regards to him.

 

I'm glad he's exceeding your expectations, cause so far it's been exactly as bad as I thought it would be.  And it's not on him, it's not a shot on him, it was just a really bad decision to put him out there.

[Kwak]

 

Really? By this logic I should let my grand children put on a cape and jump off the top bunk like superman because...well they could get hurt anywhere. The fact is Sano is too big to play the outfield, maybe the biggest ever and it's an unwise and unecessary risk.

Yet, men larger than Sano play football and basketball.  True, there are injuries (as my post pointed out), but they are part of the game--even those in the dugout can get injured!

[longstrangetrip]

 

Yeah, I think it's been pretty comically disastrous and that athletic ability hasn't been shown in the field at all yet. I haven't seen any above average speed for an OF on defense in regards to him.

 

I'm glad he's exceeding your expectations, cause so far it's been exactly as bad as I thought it would be.  And it's not on him, it's not a shot on him, it was just a really bad decision to put him out there.

Time will tell, I guess.  Perhaps some of my optimism stems from desperation, because I really didn't like any of the other defensive options that would allow Mollie to have Sano, Mauer, Park and Plouffe in the lineup...which was a necessity, I thought.  Some of the options I heard were:

 

1) Trade Plouffe.  I don't like trading your top RBI guy.  Plus, he has become a reliable third baseman and a clubhouse leader.

 

2) Move Plouffe or Mauer to the OF, and let Sano play 3b or 1b.  Mauer and Plouffe have both become plus defenders at their positions, and at their advanced ages and slow speed levels, didn't bring much promise in the OF.  Also, I think Sano's 42 errors at third just 3 years ago still is firmly in the mind of Terry and Mollie, and 1b is the only position that Park can play.

 

3) Make Sano the permanent DH.  The Twins have stated they don't believe that an athletic 22-year-old should be made a DH for the rest of his career...in fact, I can't think of any examples of a young athletic guy being limited to DHing.  Plus this option puts either Mauer or Park on the bench.

 

I think Sano to the OF was the best choice.  I hope he doesn't prove me wrong.

 

[ashbury]

Also, I think Sano's 42 errors at third just 3 years ago still is firmly in the mind of Terry and Mollie

I think their watching Sano play third for a few games at Target Field last year would have been sufficient to convince them that he'll be a work-in-progress no matter what position on the field they assign him to. No long-term memory required.

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

His defensive struggles should always have been a secondary concern for the team to the affect the new position would have on his batting. Four games in and I think we are seeing a problem. It would have been idiotic to think a young player would not let the hesitancy and uncertainty from learning a new position IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES affect the other parts of the game.

[DJSim22]

Wrap Sano in bubble wrap.

 

Not concerned about Sano.  Concerned as usual that again the Twins suddenly care less about defense than they did when they actually won baseball games. 

[jimmer]

 

Time will tell, I guess.  Perhaps some of my optimism stems from desperation, because I really didn't like any of the other defensive options that would allow Mollie to have Sano, Mauer, Park and Plouffe in the lineup...which was a necessity, I thought.  Some of the options I heard were:

 

1) Trade Plouffe.  I don't like trading your top RBI guy.  Plus, he has become a reliable third baseman and a clubhouse leader.

 

2) Move Plouffe or Mauer to the OF, and let Sano play 3b or 1b.  Mauer and Plouffe have both become plus defenders at their positions, and at their advanced ages and slow speed levels, didn't bring much promise in the OF.  Also, I think Sano's 42 errors at third just 3 years ago still is firmly in the mind of Terry and Mollie, and 1b is the only position that Park can play.

 

3) Make Sano the permanent DH.  The Twins have stated they don't believe that an athletic 22-year-old should be made a DH for the rest of his career...in fact, I can't think of any examples of a young athletic guy being limited to DHing.  Plus this option puts either Mauer or Park on the bench.

 

I think Sano to the OF was the best choice.  I hope he doesn't prove me wrong.

Then there was option 4:  Not getting Park, letting Sano be the DH (which is where he should be), and getting a quality OF in FA instead of getting Park.

[TheLeviathan]

As jimmer said in another thread, Santana (an IF in the OF) hurts himself because he didn't take a good route and ran awkwardly to chase a ball.  We're going to recover from 0-5, but the fundamental issues with this roster are still going to be there.

[sane16]

Let me think about this:

I am a third-baseman named Miguel Sano standing 90-feet in front of Miguel Cabrera, while Rick Nolasco is lobbing cookies into his strike zone.

And some blog poster is worried about my safety while playing right-field 300-feet away.

HUH???????????????

[TheLeviathan]

Let me think about this:

I am a third-baseman named Miguel Sano standing 90-feet in front of Miguel Cabrera, while Rick Nolasco is lobbing cookies into his strike zone.

And some blog poster is worried about my safety while playing right-field 300-feet away.

HUH???????????????

Well I'm definitely not worried for Nolasco.....

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Wonder how many people are unwilling to fly after a reported plane crash.

 

Not that different than this situation.

This is a good analogy, if the pilot has never flown that type of plane before.

[Darius]

HMM, Morneau got his first concussion (in baseball) when he was beaned in the BB box. The second sliding into 2nd base, and a third turning to catch a pop-fly at 1B--(somewhat similar to what happened to Koskie though he was at 3B). So, your fears are wasted--injuries can happen anytime, anyplace. Players have been hit by balls and bats in the dugout too!

I'm sorry, but this line of thinking is just asinine.

 

He's more likely to get injured at an unfamiliar position. Athletic ability has little to do with it. I would say the same thing about Byron Buxton playing shortstop, or Eddie Rosario playing first (OK, that may be a stretch).

 

The point is, when you are unsure of what are doing, and there is no muscle memory to take over, you're more likely to end up in a structurally compromising position.

 

And all those who think defensive confidence doesn't carry over to your confidence on offense, probably has never played a game of baseball beyond using a ragball and tee. If you embarrass yourself in front of thousands of people, many of you would have trouble putting together a coherent sentence in front of them moments later, let alone do one of the most difficult things in all of sports.