Berardino: Late Bullpen Additions Don't Appear a Priority

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The rest, right now, are young guys, right? Perhaps that is some of the wisdom of not going 2-3 years on decent but not elite free agents, those are the ones who would be locked in and block young guys from emerging.

Unfortunately, the Twins have put themselves in the position where mediocre starters are forcing their hand in the pen. So many of these problems fall back to the rotation and the fact there are too many (not very good) warm bodies.

 

If the rotation had 5-6 pitchers, it'd be a hell of a lot easier to get Meyer and Burdi on the Minnesota roster (which is part of the reason why I wanted to see Milone traded this offseason).

[Vanimal46]

 

 But what if that route ends up being a just month later than most of us would most prefer? Is that a huge issue? Just curious.

I'm guessing there's going to be rumblings and frustration initially if the Twins start with Tonkin and the minor league signings in April. Which is to be expected right? I mean there were rumblings last season when Schafer was the opening day CF and Stauffer/Duensing/Fien were the key cogs in the bullpen. I'd just hope that there's a shorter leash to rotate out the unproductive players for the younger players.

If we have another situation like last year where the Stauffers of the world hang around until June-ish, and Duensing had his roster spot all season long after being very hittable for 3+ months, then it's going to be a much bigger issue. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I guess some could argue the Twins weren't prepared for the RP market this off-season, maybe had too conservative of projections on what these pitchers should be making. Or it could be an anomaly where the market blew up and they're waiting it out. I'm leaning more towards the former, but that's just me.   

No one was predicting Bastardo would sign for 1/4 or whatever the Twins were rumored to offer.  I think it's an insult to the Twins to suggest they were predicting that.

 

It's far more likely the Twins just didn't want to use that route for upgrading the team, for whatever the reason.  Wouldn't be the first time.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

If we have another situation like last year where the Stauffers of the world hang around until June-ish, and Duensing had his roster spot all season long after being very hittable for 3+ months, then it's going to be a much bigger issue. 

The Stauffer signing was bad but too much was made out of his playing time. He received 10 innings and then went on the DL to see if he could straighten things out. He returned to the team, pitched 5.1 additional innings, and got the axe.

 

The Twins moved at an acceptable pace with Stauffer, it just seemed like a really long time due to his month long DL stint.

 

Of course, they never should have signed the guy in the first place but that's a different argument, really.

[Vanimal46]

 

The Stauffer signing was bad but too much was made out of his playing time. He received 10 innings and then went on the DL to see if he could straighten things out. He returned to the team, pitched 5.1 additional innings, and got the axe.

 

The Twins moved at an acceptable pace with Stauffer, it just seemed like a really long time due to his month long DL stint.

 

Of course, they never should have signed the guy in the first place but that's a different argument, really.

You're probably right. My perception was he spent more time rotting on the bench than being on the DL. I have been wrong before, and will be wrong again. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

You're probably right. My perception was he spent more time rotting on the bench than being on the DL. I have been wrong before, and will be wrong again. 

Don't feel bad, it felt like the guy was on the team for an eternity, every moment of it excruciatingly painful.

 

But in reality, he really didn't pitch much.

[nicksaviking]

 

The Stauffer signing was bad but too much was made out of his playing time. He received 10 innings and then went on the DL to see if he could straighten things out. He returned to the team, pitched 5.1 additional innings, and got the axe.

 

The Twins moved at an acceptable pace with Stauffer, it just seemed like a really long time due to his month long DL stint.

 

Of course, they never should have signed the guy in the first place but that's a different argument, really.

 

Which appears to what they were trying to avoid this off season.

 

I think our perception of Stauffer is a bit off too. He was a pretty good reliever for SD the prior two years and he actually had pretty solid K numbers, something most of us (or maybe it's just me) have been obsessing over since Johan Santana left. He really wasn't much different than the mid-tier free agent relievers folks were hoping for this year.

 

Our almost unanimous objection to Stauffer last year wasn't that the Twins signed a bum, it was that from the moment of the signing, Ryan said that Stauffer would get a shot at earning a rotation spot. Everyone and their grandma blew a big fat raspberry at that idea, and I think that's why we all had animosity toward Stauffer from the start. He was already facing an uphill battle to earn our love.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The Stauffer signing was bad but too much was made out of his playing time. He received 10 innings and then went on the DL to see if he could straighten things out. He returned to the team, pitched 5.1 additional innings, and got the axe.

 

The Twins moved at an acceptable pace with Stauffer, it just seemed like a really long time due to his month long DL stint.

 

Of course, they never should have signed the guy in the first place but that's a different argument, really.

The DL time is a bit of a smokescreen, as I doubt the Twins would have cut Stauffer a month earlier without the DL stint.  They generally don't make moves like that until June at the earliest, and that's with epically bad performance and injury.  The Duensing example shows they are more than willing to continue rostering a healthy middling performer much longer than that.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Don't feel bad, it felt like the guy was on the team for an eternity, every moment of it excruciatingly painful.

 

But in reality, he really didn't pitch much.

 

of course, he took a spot on the 25 man roster, and his acquisition meant, to them, they didn't need to acquire an actual pitcher.......

 

For all the talk of the young guys, Meyer and Rogers did not pitch 1 inning in the majors last year....despite the bullpen needing help. An odd strategy to say the least.....

[alarp33]

Tim Stauffer was topping out at 84 throughout Spring Training last year.  Even the 6-7 weeks he spent on the active roster were too many. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I think our perception of Stauffer is a bit off too. He was a pretty good reliever for SD the prior two years and he actually had pretty solid K numbers, something most of us (or maybe it's just me) have been obsessing over since Johan Santana left. He really wasn't much different than the mid-tier free agent relievers folks were hoping for this year.

Actually, Stauffer was used exclusively as a mop-up reliever (and spot starter) in San Diego, that was my issue with the signing.  His gmLI figures for his three relief seasons there: .77, .85, .68.  Combined with the promise to let him try starting, he was almost certainly signed to fill a role not worth filling with a guaranteed free agent deal given our internal options at the time.

 

Which is very much different than looking at our projected top half of the bullpen for opening day 2016, where any mid-tier relievers acquired this winter would have slotted.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

For all the talk of the young guys, Meyer and Rogers did not pitch 1 inning in the majors last year....despite the bullpen needing help. An odd strategy to say the least.....

Hey, Alex Meyer pitched two and two-thirds innings in the majors last year!  But I agree generally, he almost certainly should have been up in September for the additional experience alone if he was a real candidate to break camp with the club this year.  Would have been nice to see him in that meaningless game 162 I attended....

[DaveW]

 

At the risk of making an assumption about Terry Ryan's feelings... 

 

Casey Fien had a 3.55 ERA last season.  He sees this as being a good pitcher, I don't think he looks much beyond that.  In the interview with Reusse he basically lumped Fien in with Perkins, Jepsen and May as being the rocks of the bullpen.  

I mean Fien isn't a BAD pitcher, he is a decent 6th inning, 4/5th option out of the pen, however he is the exact type of guy that is expendable when you have this many young arms up and coming.

Again why not just sign a solid 7th/8th inning guy like Bastardo or someone like him. You then have: Perkins, May, Bastardo and Jepsen locked in. At that point you still have THREE spots open for the youngsters, if May moves back into the pen then that number becomes four. Plenty of spots open for everyone IMO.T

The Twins also only have one RP locked up after 2016 and that is Perkins, I don't see how signing ONE guy to a 2-3 year contract is suddenly going to block the future of the pen. You still have 5 spots open at that point (or 4 if May is still in the pen)

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

In reality how many vets are there to cut? Perkins and Jepsen aren't going anywhere (except maybe the DL), Nolasco will likely move into the rotation for the occasional spot start. That leaves Fien, who actually has an option. Maybe Abad, but that shows the value of the minor league deal.

 

The rest, right now, are young guys, right? Perhaps that is some of the wisdom of not going 2-3 years on decent but not elite free agents, those are the ones who would be locked in and block young guys from emerging.

Jepsen is a free agent after the season.  If we're out of contention, he's a perfect July trade candidate too. Fien's arb award might outstrip his production by next winter as well.  Perkins is only guaranteed through 2017, and should be aggressively DL'ed based on the results of the past two seasons.

 

And since the context of the original comment was cutting veterans during this season, I think it's fair to include Abad since he is very likely to be a veteran making the opening day roster.  And perhaps Nolasco too, as he could be Edwin Jackson circa 2015, just biding time at the bottom of then pen until his release.

 

That's 5 of the 7 current commonly projected opening day bullpen spots.  The other is May, and finally Tonkin who doesn't seem to have much future here regardless (twice demoted in favor of Tim Stauffer in 2015).  In all likelihood, this is the only spot in play for youngsters in early 2016, regardless of whether or not we upgraded one of the 5-6 aforementioned veteran spots.

 

There's just no logic to resisting a reliever acquisition this winter due to perceived inflexibility.  (Not to mention there were relievers guaranteed only one year in the trade market where we did not appear particularly active either, like Benoit, Storen, and technically even K Rod.)

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I mean Fien isn't a BAD pitcher, he is a decent 6th inning, 4/5th option out of the pen, however he is the exact type of guy that is expendable when you have this many young arms up and coming.

 

Agreed.  And I think it's important to note that most folks aren't saying Fien had to be non-tendered, but rather Fien is the type of guy, and in the type of role, where he can be pushed down for a better acquisition, or pushed out by a up-and-coming prospect as needed.

 

Instead, I get the impression that the Twins have had Fien locked into their pen untouchables group this whole time, which is the kind of decision that increases your risk of repeating last year's middling pen.

[jimbo92107]

Trevor May and JO Berrios disagree with you. 

On my team, Duffey, May and Berrios all are starters right out of spring training. But that's just me... ;-)

 

Jimbo's starting ro

Santana

Gibson

Berrios

Duffey

May

 

Drop the mic, booom.

[The Wise One]

I find it amusing that there is an ad for learning to throw a nasty curveball. You click on it and players the millenials might not have heard of are hawking a plan to join the 90 mph club.  90 mph curveball would be a thing to behold. Maybe the Twins should send all of their pitchers to this guy. Imagine Millone with a curveball faster than is fastball

 

 

 

Yup, bored at work

[alarp33]

 

On my team, Duffey, May and Berrios all are starters right out of spring training. But that's just me... ;-)

 

Jimbo's starting ro

Santana

Gibson

Berrios

Duffey

May

 

Drop the mic, booom.

 

Well, I wish you were in charge.... (Though I'm totally fine with starting Berrios in the minors for 2-3 weeks, skipping the 5th starters spot a couple of times for service time reasons)