Jose Fernandez trade rumors?

[DaveW]

 

I mentioned this in the other thread... Fernandez is a guy I would give up the farm for, no question. The attitude problems mentioned do not bother me one bit. He's on the Marlins, people; AKA the worst run organization in the MLB, arguably all of sports. Once he's not associated with a train wreck franchise, all of those concerns will be alleviated. 

Yup, agreed. I would give them Berrios+Kepler+Stewart+More in about two seconds flat.

 

He instantly makes the Twins a contender, and more importantly gives them a shut down ace guy that could pitch 2 games out of 5 in the playoffs and 3 out of 7 in the world series.

 

/salivates

[DaveW]

 

 

I mostly didn't want to include Berrios because of his tremendous upside and he can be under control for many years.  Obviously I understand that he probably needs to be included, but it'd be great if he didn't need to be.  I am also nervous about acquiring Fernandez since he is a Boras client and that may not bode well for the Twins if they hope to keep him long-term.  

Berrios is under control for 3 more years then Fernandez. I don't see it as an issue, it would be if we are talking about one year, but 3 years is plenty of time, teams should be planning for 2-3 years out anyways planning for 5+ years out is a recipe for mediocrity

 

As far as signing him long term, the Mauer, Nolasco, Santana dollars will all be off the books after 3 years, they could afford to keep him around long term if they want to.

[TwinsTerritory]

Here's my offer to the Marlins.  Pick one from each category.

 

1. Elite position player prospect: Kepler or Gordon 

2. Top pitching prospect: Gonsalves or Stewart 

3. Boom or bust relief pitching prospect: Burdi or Meyer

4. Former high draft pick that is probably a bust: Michael or Wimmers

 

and

 

5. Take Nolasco off our hands (we'll throw in 1/2 his remaining salary)

 

[DaveW]

 

Here's my offer to the Marlins.  Pick one from each category.

 

1. Elite position player prospect: Kepler or Gordon 

2. Top pitching prospect: Gonsalves or Stewart 

3. Boom or bust relief pitching prospect: Burdi or Meyer

4. Former high draft pick that is probably a bust: Michael or Wimmers

 

and

 

5. Take Nolasco off our hands (we'll throw in 1/2 his remaining salary)

They would turn that down in no time flat.

 

If you aren't going to include Berrios (which I don't see this deal happening without him) then you definitely have to include Kepler AND Gordon.

 

Michael and Wimmers have zero real value, Burdi or Meyer have slightly more.

[Vanimal46]

Berrios is put on a pedestal here on TD, and I can understand why... considering he's our only chance at a top of the rotation guy for the foreseeable future. However, we can only dream he'd be even close to the caliber of pitcher Fernandez is. If Berrios needs to be included in a trade, there will be no issue from me to oblige and make the deal happen.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Yup, agreed. I would give them Berrios+Kepler+Stewart+More in about two seconds flat.

 

He instantly makes the Twins a contender, and more importantly gives them a shut down ace guy that could pitch 2 games out of 5 in the playoffs and 3 out of 7 in the world series.

 

/salivates

Like any rational person, I'd love to have Fernandez but even I would balk at Berrios+Kepler+Stuff, especially after the Hicks trade.

 

One or the other (plus other guys), yes... But both, ouch. I'm not sure I can get behind that kind of haul. The Twins farm system goes from "pretty good" to "barren at the upper levels" after that trade.

[TwinsTerritory]

I agree they'll turn down that offer, but I'm not giving up 3 of our top 5 prospects for 3 years of Fernandez. I don't think Fernandez alone makes us a contender the next two years.  I don't think Berrios becoming elite makes us a true championship contender either.  Right now we have a bunch of #3, #4, and #5 starters along with the potential of Berrios being a top line starter.  We need 2 top line starters, so trading Berrios to get Fernandez makes us a little better, but still short of where we need to be.

[Mike Sixel]

So if they get Fernandez, they can't do more to get better? The argument on this site, nearly every day, is that they aren't one player away, so they should not pay a lot for one player.....what if they had added an elite player last year, then another this year? 

 

We might not be "there" yet, but the argument on this site is to never do this kind of thing......

[Vanimal46]

 

Like any rational person, I'd love to have Fernandez but even I would balk at Berrios+Kepler+Stuff, especially after the Hicks trade.

 

One or the other (plus other guys), yes... But both, ouch. I'm not sure I can get behind that kind of haul. The Twins farm system goes from "pretty good" to "barren at the upper levels" after that trade.

 

Maybe you haven't put much thought into yet, but is there a framework of a deal that would entice you to pull the trigger on?

Berrios or Kepler + Gordon + Jay + someone in the 15-20 org ranks?

[Primetime82]

As much as I would love Fernandez, Kepler is off the table for me. My gut tells me he's going to be really really good and we've just begun to see it. 

 

I'd rather we just sign a free agent stud then trade 4 or 5 prospects away. It would probably take....Berrios, Jay or Stewart, Gordon, and a Burdi type. Can't we just sign Zimmerman or Greinke instead?

[TwinsTerritory]

I'm for going after him, but I'm not giving up Berrios to get him because we need pitching and we can't give up our biggest pitching prospect to get it.  I think Kepler, Stewart, Burdi, and another guy or two is worth it, but I wouldn't give up Berrios.

[Vanimal46]

 

 Can't we just sign Zimmerman or Greinke instead?

 

Highly, highly doubtful the Twins are even in the discussion to sign those guys. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

As much as I would love Fernandez, Kepler is off the table for me. My gut tells me he's going to be really really good and we've just begun to see it. 

 

I'd rather we just sign a free agent stud then trade 4 or 5 prospects away. It would probably take....Berrios, Jay or Stewart, Gordon, and a Burdi type. Can't we just sign Zimmerman or Greinke instead?

 

And if the budget won't allow for 5-7 years and $25MM per year, just pass?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Maybe you haven't put much thought into yet, but is there a framework of a deal that would entice you to pull the trigger on?

Berrios or Kepler + Gordon + Jay + someone in the 15-20 org ranks?

I haven't really thought about it much but the bolded seems like a reasonable place to start. I'm not sure I'd want to trade Jay right now, as I think his value rises in the coming year... But if the Twins need him in there to get it done, so be it.

 

Maybe Gonsalves instead of Jay? Dunno, I'll leave that kind of nuance to the Twins scouting department.

[DaveW]

 

Like any rational person, I'd love to have Fernandez but even I would balk at Berrios+Kepler+Stuff, especially after the Hicks trade.

 

One or the other (plus other guys), yes... But both, ouch. I'm not sure I can get behind that kind of haul. The Twins farm system goes from "pretty good" to "barren at the upper levels" after that trade.

Why are people so afraid to give up Kepler? The guy plays 1B and RF and while a nice player, he isn't exactly a 30 HR type.

[sane]

Didn't we just burn 27 pages to determine that TR was too conservative?

Now some of the TD posters are praising the benefits of mediocrity......

[nicksaviking]

 

So if they get Fernandez, they can't do more to get better? The argument on this site, nearly every day, is that they aren't one player away, so they should not pay a lot for one player.....what if they had added an elite player last year, then another this year? 

 

We might not be "there" yet, but the argument on this site is to never do this kind of thing......

 

I don't think the Twins are ready to go all in and I'm not in favor of blowing up the farm to do it until we see what holes need to be filled once we see the team on the field as opposed to just on paper.

 

If the Twins had Fernandez, I'd change my stance, the window would basically only be three years and some of the best prospects would be gone anyway.

 

I also don't think the suggested price of Kepler, Gordon and Stewart would dissuade me from this deal either.  I might see if the Marlins value Gibson instead though and try to save Kepler or Gordon.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Why are people so afraid to give up Kepler? The guy plays 1B and RF and while a nice player, he isn't exactly a 30 HR type.

I'm not against giving up Kepler as much as I'm against giving up Berrios and Kepler.

 

After the Hicks trade, the Twins are lacking in real outfielders. Kepler looks to be on the upswing.

 

And, as always, the Twins need power arms. Berrios fills that role. Even with Fernandez on the team, the Twins could use another arm who hits the mid-90s (and it's pretty easy to start salivating at the thought of Fernandez/Berrios/May leading a rotation).

 

One is fine, not a fan of trading both.

[kab21]

I don't think a long term deal is possible but I think they could buyout a year of FA (the more common result).  I am okay with 'only' having him for 3-4 years. 

[nicksaviking]

 

 

Why are people so afraid to give up Kepler? The guy plays 1B and RF and while a nice player, he isn't exactly a 30 HR type.

 

I'd give up Kepler.  Really my only hesitation with him is that at this time he appears to be the only one of the young players/prospects for the Twins that appears to be able to avoid strikeouts and get on base. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'd give up Kepler. Really my only hesitation with him is that at this time he appears to be the only one of the young players/prospects for the Twins that appears to be able to avoid strikeouts and get on base.

Yeah, I think Kepler has a really good chance of becoming a 3 WAR-ish, good OBP guy that may be able to contribute as early as this season.

 

I wouldn't cry to see him go but I don't want to trade both of the guys who have a chance to impact the 2016 squad.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Like any rational person, I'd love to have Fernandez but even I would balk at Berrios+Kepler+Stuff, especially after the Hicks trade.

 

One or the other (plus other guys), yes... But both, ouch. I'm not sure I can get behind that kind of haul. The Twins farm system goes from "pretty good" to "barren at the upper levels" after that trade.

"Barren at the upper levels" for a farm system that just promoted Sano and Buxton, not to mention Rosario, May, etc., with a true ace in Fernandez for the next 3 years, isn't that bad of a position.  Particularly since it looks like an opportunity to sell high -- very high -- on Kepler.

 

I know it's a pitcher versus a position player, but I get the feeling that a lot of these arguments against Fernandez would have been trotted out if we were debating Miller and Maybin for Miguel Cabrera circa 2008 too.  (Cabrera only had 2 years of control at the time too, and came along with an iffy Dontrelll Willis, partially negating the pitcher vs. position player thing).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I wouldn't cry to see him go but I don't want to trade both of the guys who have a chance to impact the 2016 squad.

Fernandez has a much better chance to impact the 2016 than both of them.  Probaby 2017 and 2018 too.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Nah, they'd want Berrios plus more as part of any deal, and he has only 3 years of control, so no thanks.  I'll take Berrios' 6+ years of control and perfect health history, even if his upside is a bit less.

Yes. I'm guessing it would take Berrios + Sano or Buxton for the Miami GM to listen through the end of the voice message without deleting. Throw in some more goodies and he might even return your call later, if he thinks of it. Also Fernamdez seems like a primadonna and Berrios, Buxton and Sano are all guys easy to root for. For me, that's all a bit too much. Other peoples mileage will vary.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Yes time to jump on board the Fernandez bandwagon! I'm driving!!

*jumps out, barrel rolls*

[Vanimal46]

 

*jumps out, barrel rolls*

 

Probably a good call on your part. I drive bandwagons pretty fast.... and more than likely a couple of beers down the hatchet. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

After the Hicks trade, the Twins are lacking in real outfielders. Kepler looks to be on the upswing.

If trading Kepler leaves you too lacking in real outfielders, nothing is stopping you from grabbing Denard Span or someone on a reasonable free agent deal.  Fernandez himself is only projected at $2.9 mil arb salary for 2016 so he wouldn't be constraining your finances.

 

I like Berrios and Kepler, but Fernandez + Span are almost certainly better over the next 3 years.  And if you don't think the next 3 years is really our "window" then you really don't have a window because no one can really predict a window past 3 years from now.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Fernandez has a much better chance to impact the 2016 than both of them.  Probaby 2017 and 2018 too.

Oh, agreed, I'm just not convinced he's enough to shore up some of the issues I have with the defense/offense alignment the Twins are currently looking at in 2016.

 

Again, I don't have a problem with swapping Berrios + guys for Fernandez, or Kepler + more guys for Fernandez, I'm just not sold on trading both of them.

 

But I don't see how this deal gets done without Berrios in it so I'm basically arguing not to include Kepler. The Twins have enough in the low minors to make this a decent deal for the Marlins without including Kepler.

 

And the point of a Fernandez trade is a "win now, RIGHT NOW" approach. I'd do whatever I could to keep at least one of the guys who will help "WIN NOW". Kepler is one of those guys, IMO.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Probably a good call on your part. I drive bandwagons pretty fast.... and more than likely a couple of beers down the hatchet.

 

Oh I'd ride with you, just not to Miami to pick up Fernandez

[nicksaviking]

You guys are making me dizzy, I merged the two Fernandez threads. 

 

At least I hope it was only two.