Through the Fence: Instructs 10/2-3: Gonsalves, Gordon, Walker, Reed

[Bob Sacamento]

 

It was another beautiful weekend for baseball in sunny Southwest Florida. The baseball gods were smiling down as there was a rematch of last weekends pitching prospect phenoms of Stephen Gonsalves of the Twins vs 17 year old wunderkid Anderson Espinoza. Before the matchup, I got a little video of Gonsalves warming up in the bullpen where he appeared a little wild. After his two innings of pitching, where he showed off his plus changeup that upticked his 90-92 mph fastball and the feel of a good curveball (~74 mph). When I asked about his bullpen warmups, he said he wasn't feeling the slider so scraped it for the outing. When asked to order his comfortability with his pitches Stephen said usually it's a FB/CH/SL/CV order as his curveball is a fourth pitch offering that he's working on to give the hitters another look. As soon as Instructional League is over with Gonsalves said he'll shut it down pitching wise until January when he'll start long tossing and by February he'll be ready for his bullpen sessions, in the meantime he'll be ramping up his workout schedule.

Making an appearance over the weekend was Twins' masher Adam Brett Walker II, he's only gotten bigger since I saw him in Spring Training, truly a monster. Walker was impressive at the plate working deep counts, making pitchers work while taking his big cuts. Adam left the game on Friday after four at bats with slight soreness in his wrist but was good enough to play on Saturday while maning leftfield at Fenway South. He got to face some advanced pitching in BoSox prospects Anderson Espinoza, Logan Allen, and Michael Kopech before he heads out to the Arizona Fall League to face even better competition.

 

Another prospect in town getting some reps before the AFL was righty power reliever Jake Reed. Reed looked real good at times in his one inning outing showing off a nasty slider with a hard 95mph fastball yet having a little command issues.

Yet one Twins prospect got the lion's share of the praise from the 20 or so scouts that were on hand this weekend, and that would be SS Nick Gordon. Gordon sat out on Friday but played SS and batted second on Saturday. The scouts I talked to raved about Nick, one AL East scout echoed the same sentiments I heard from BoSox coach Joe Oliver in that Nick's going to be better than his older brother Dee. The comp that the scout put on him might be unfair but should make Twins' fan overjoyed was that of pinstripe legend Derek Jeter. The scout elaborated for me that Gordon has all the tools across the board (he's going to stay at SS, can get on base, can steal, can hit and has some pop that he'll grow into), has great leadership, and great overall makeup.

Other tidbits from Instructs, Mike Cederoth has a very "unique" delivery if you've never seen it, where most pitchers push off the rubber, Mike takes a little hop and actually pushes off an inch or two in front of the rubber. The Red Sox players/coaches were shouting from the bench that "he's cheating" but the umpire said he was within the guidelines of "the book". By doing so, Cederoth is able to increase his extension and release point which in turn makes that 93 mph look like it's 95 mph.

Lamonte Wade shows an advanced approach at the plate, working counts and puts good wood on the ball often; keep on eye on him. Tyree Davis is itching to get on the ballfield and from the sounds of it might be ready for the last week of Instructs. If you don't know, Davis injured his elbow and elected for rehab for the torn joint instead of surgery. Tyree has bulked up while he's been off the field, adding 20 lb of muscle; he wants to play winter ball but is unsure if he'll get the okay from management. Yorman Landa saw some game action that had his fastball at 94-95mph and threw for two innings. Pitchers on Friday included Stephen Gonsalves (2IP start), Yorman Landa (2IP), Alex Robinson, Logan Lombana, and Johan Quezada. Pitchers on Saturday included Sam Clay (4IP start), Brandon Poulson, Jake Reed, Mike Theofanopoulos, Mike Cederoth, and Rich Condeelis.

 

I'll be back next weekend as the Twins wrap up their Instructional League play and players either head home for the winter or off to Arizona, Mexico, Australia or the Caribbean for more playing time.

[drjim]

Thanks for the report.

 

The Jeter comp is kind of funny, but I generally think people are sleeping on Gordon a little bit. The numbers for teenagers in low a aren't nearly as important as tools.

[Mike Sixel]

Thanks for the update. Love these.

[sane]

 

 

Other tidbits from Instructs, Mike Cederoth has a very "unique" delivery if you've never seen it, where most pitchers push off the rubber, Mike takes a little hop and actually pushes off an inch or two in front of the rubber. The Red Sox players/coaches were shouting from the bench that "he's cheating" but the umpire said he was within the guidelines of "the book". By doing so, Cederoth is able to increase his extension and release point which in turn makes that 93 mph look like it's 95 mph.

 

Check out the delivery of Carter Capps of the Miami Marlins. Umpires have yet to rule this a violation to my knowledge....See link below.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/21753540/v73287783/miaatl-capps-hopstep-delivery-analyzed

[Loosey]

Jeter Comp is crazy, but I'll gladly accept him being equally as good as his brother but a Full Time shortstop.  That would be fantastic.

[Bob Sacamento]

 

Check out the delivery of Carter Capps of the Miami Marlins. Umpires have yet to rule this a violation to my knowledge....See link below.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/21753540/v73287783/miaatl-capps-hopstep-delivery-analyzed

LOL that was exactly who I was thinking of when he was pitching as I've heard statheads talk about the added extension and thus added perceived velocity because he's releasing the ball even closer to plate

[Bob Sacamento]

 

 

Jeter Comp is crazy, but I'll gladly accept him being equally as good as his brother but a Full Time shortstop.  That would be fantastic.

Just to give you an idea, here is a little blurb from Jeter's report nearly 20 years ago:

 

“Besides plus tools, Jeter understands the strike zone, runs the bases intelligently and has leadership skills. He has outstanding range and agile feet. Jeter decreased his errors from 56 to 25 this year, but then made 11 in 16 AFL games … He makes lazy throws on easy plays, something the Yankees believe he will grow out of with experience.”

 

And of his brother Dee, 5 years ago:

 

"He has plus bat speed and while he’s primarily a fastball hitter, he has shown he can adjust to breaking pitches. Though he hits balls hard consistently, Gordon lacks power and his approach isn’t designed for it, so he’ll likely max out at 10 homers per year. He comes to the plate with an aggressive mentality … and needs to learn to see more pitches. He carries that same aggressiveness with him on the bases and in the field as well. ”

[Halsey Hall]

 

Check out the delivery of Carter Capps of the Miami Marlins. Umpires have yet to rule this a violation to my knowledge....See link below.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/21753540/v73287783/miaatl-capps-hopstep-delivery-analyzed

Wow!  Never seen that before, and it's legal?  Interesting. 

[Seth Stohs]

Yeah, projecting anyone to be the next Jeter isn't really fair. However, there's no way to know. No one would have projected Jeter to be Jeter either. 

 

But I really like Gordon. I do think he's got the tools and he's got the makeup and he's got some of the intangibles (leadership, stuff like that) at a young age. I don't think he'll fly up the system. Might even be one year at a time, but I believe he can be a very good player for a long time. 

 

Of course, there's no way to type that or think that with 100% confidence.

[brvama]

Check out the delivery of Carter Capps of the Miami Marlins. Umpires have yet to rule this a violation to my knowledge....See link below.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/21753540/v73287783/miaatl-capps-hopstep-delivery-analyzed

Looks awkward. Seems to me that that delivery would increase stress on the push-off leg and ankle and make it more difficult to repeat it consistently.

 

Is Ceder's hop as exaggerated? And how is his control?

[Bob Sacamento]

 

Looks awkward. Seems to me that that delivery would increase stress on the push-off leg and ankle and make it more difficult to repeat it consistently.

Is Ceder's hop as exaggerated? And how is his control?

Ceder's hop is definitely exaggerated, his control is spotty.  Here is video I shot of Ceder over the weekend

 

[Willihammer]

How was Poulson's command? Put another way, how many batters did he hit?

Velo?

[Bob Sacamento]

 

How was Poulson's command? Put another way, how many batters did he hit?

Velo?

You want the truth?  Because I don't think you can handle the truth  Poulson's command was shaky at best just as it has been for most of this year in ExtST, GCL and now Instructs.  The velocity is usually 93-97mph (avg ~95), he just doesn't seem to know where it's going.  Sadly, the longer the year went on the worse it seemed like he was getting.  It got to the point where he was strickly throwing fastballs because the slider wasn't even viable.  He's a good kid and I root for him but it looks like a really big uphill battle.  Plus side is even with his age, he still has very little innings on his shoulder.

 

The other flamethrower in camp this summer has been 6'8 Johan "Flaca" Quezada, kid hits 97-98mph routinely and pops 100 every now and then.  His issue is the same too as he doesn't have much control but with so many moving parts it's hard to keep his delivery repeatable.  I've got about an hour's worth of video on him cumulatively and from a kinesiology standpoint, the issues are erratic release point and inability to keep a consistent stride and plant foot.  He's still got time on his side and tall lanky pitchers usually take longer to keep control over their body/mechanics.

[Bob Sacamento]

 

Yeah, projecting anyone to be the next Jeter isn't really fair. However, there's no way to know. No one would have projected Jeter to be Jeter either. 

 

But I really like Gordon. I do think he's got the tools and he's got the makeup and he's got some of the intangibles (leadership, stuff like that) at a young age. I don't think he'll fly up the system. Might even be one year at a time, but I believe he can be a very good player for a long time. 

 

Of course, there's no way to type that or think that with 100% confidence.

Just for giggles, here are Jeter and Gordon's lines in LoA at age 19:

 

Gordon:. .277/.336/,360/.696 in 120G, 481AB, 1HR, 39BB, 88K, 25/33 SB

Jeter:  .295/.376/.394/.770 in 128G, 515AB, 5HR, 58BB, 95K, 18/27 SB

 

Not too bad considering Gordon sucked it up until it warmed up in June in his first taste of playing in cold weather regularly.  Nick will start the 2016 year in Ft. Myers (High A) and could see AA by season's end.

 

 

 

[jimbo92107]

What a nice write-up, thanks Bob. So many talented young guys coming up through the system. Especially fun to read about Gonsalves and Gordon. And what are they going to do with that big Walker guy. Maybe if he'd just stop hitting the ball so darn hard..! ;-)

[nicksaviking]

I like that even after one full year Cederoth still has a quirky delivery, I've always been disappointed in what I perceived as cookie-cutter approach for the Twins.  Maybe I was wrong, or maybe they've changed (I still hold that Burdi's delivery was drastically changed).

 

What happened to Cederoth's velocity though? He was able to hit triple digits at times in college, now he's down to 93? That seems pretty concerning.

[Hrbowski]

 

(I still hold that Burdi's delivery was drastically changed).

 

What happened to Cederoth's velocity though? He was able to hit triple digits at times in college, now he's down to 93? That seems pretty concerning.

Burdi's delivery was not drastically changed. Cederoth's velocity has been slipping for awhile, but Steil and Radcliff both think that he can get it back up there. In my opinion it fell due to SDSU and the Twins moving him back and forth between the rotation and the bullpen.

[brvama]

Ceder's hop is definitely exaggerated, his control is spotty.  

Thanks Bob. One difference I noticed between Capps and Cedar is the Capps looks like he reloads after the hop, like he's moving the rubber forward. Hop, reload the push off, plant and then throw. Cedar seems to use the hop as momentum in a continuation of his delivery - hop, plant the lead foot and throw. Both are different, but I'd say Capps is pushing the letter of the rule, IMO.

[jimbo92107]

Thanks Bob. One difference I noticed between Capps and Cedar is the Capps looks like he reloads after the hop, like he's moving the rubber forward. Hop, reload the push off, plant and then throw. Cedar seems to use the hop as momentum in a continuation of his delivery - hop, plant the lead foot and throw. Both are different, but I'd say Capps is pushing the letter of the rule, IMO.

There it is, I was wondering how to describe the difference. Capps is clearly pushing off a second time, where Cederoth is executing more of a delayed release. There's no secondary thrust in Cederoth's delivery, so it's not really cheating. Capps on the other hand...no, that's a hop and a drive. Cheating.

[nicksaviking]

Burdi's delivery was not drastically changed. Cederoth's velocity has been slipping for awhile, but Steil and Radcliff both think that he can get it back up there. In my opinion it fell due to SDSU and the Twins moving him back and forth between the rotation and the bullpen.

Burdi's stride is much shorter than in college and he used to throw the ball from behind his ear.

 

I hope they're right about getting velocity back and glad to hear that it's been acknowledged.

[Hrbowski]

 

Burdi's stride is much shorter than in college and he used to throw the ball from behind his ear.

I hope they're right about getting velocity back and glad to hear that it's been acknowledged.

It was changed, but I don't think it was a drastic change. Burdi's problems are supposedly mental, because apparently he has been throwing as hard, and his slider is as sharp.

[jokin]

 

There it is, I was wondering how to describe the difference. Capps is clearly pushing off a second time, where Cederoth is executing more of a delayed release. There's no secondary thrust in Cederoth's delivery, so it's not really cheating. Capps on the other hand...no, that's a hop and a drive. Cheating.

 

Has anyone filed a protest yet?