"St. Louis Cardinals Investigated by F.B.I. for Hacking Astros"

[drjim]

 

the less information, the more valuable the information. The fact that there are less firms, and greater barriers to entry.....that fact makes it more likely that there are market inefficiencies that can be taken advantage of (like, you know, Moneyball....and never losing 90 games as a GM).

 

Less companies. Less public information. More value in good data.

 

No argument in value of good data - but there is some debate about what actually constitutes good data, what is the most effective implementation of said data and how that data can interact with other aspects of an organization.

[drjim]

The Astros have made a boatload of transactions the last four years, some of them were bound to hit, and it is no coincidence that those are the ones that get played up for stories. Do we know about the many that didn't hit? Is it fair to emphasize the couple of Astro hits and compare them with the many misses all teams have? Do the Astros actually hit at a higher rate than other teams because they have a better system? Have they just been lucky? Do they have the ability to exploit these gains properly? Will they squander them chasing after an advantage that is more imagined than real? Will they be able to recover when they invest significant assets into a failure?

 

There is no arguing with success this season, the question is whether it is sustainable. These are the questions all executives/models are faced with. Do to the long cyclical nature of baseball it is easy to jump on quick or current success but the question is always can it sustain and turn over.

[HitInAPinch]

 

One quote from the NYTimes article caught my eye:

"The (statistical) program (in question)took a series of variables and weights them according to the values determined by the team's statisticians, physicist, doctors, scouts and coaches."

Team "Physicist"? Really? Somehow, I don't think the Twins have to worry about anyone hacking their databases for the Team Physicist's notes.

Well, the Twins did at one time have Mike Marshall working for them.  He was a PHD in kinesiology

[HitInAPinch]

I'm very surprise no one asked this question, so i will

 

If the FBI investigation proves St. Louis personnel "hacked" into the Houston Astro's database and stole information, will the Cardinal's organization or the individuals be treated exactly like Pete Rose??

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm very surprise no one asked this question, so i will

 

If the FBI investigation proves St. Louis personnel "hacked" into the Houston Astro's database and stole information, will the Cardinal's organization or the individuals be treated exactly like Pete Rose??

 

I'm guessing the individuals will be, yes.

[USAFChief]

I'm very surprise no one asked this question, so i will

 

If the FBI investigation proves St. Louis personnel "hacked" into the Houston Astro's database and stole information, will the Cardinal's organization or the individuals be treated exactly like Pete Rose??

Did they use whatever information they obtained to gamble on baseball?

 

If so, yes.

 

If not, probably not.

 

Gambling is just about the most damaging thing thàt can happen to a sport. When people perceive games are decided ahead of time, you have pro wrestling.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Did they use whatever information they obtained to gamble on baseball?

If so, yes.

If not, probably not.

Gambling is just about the most damaging thing thàt can happen to a sport. When people perceive games are decided ahead of time, you have pro wrestling.

I agree with you to a point.  In the case of Pete Rose, as manager he also could have had a direct impact on the results of his team.  So, I'd agree with you on that.  However, what those employee's of the Cardinals did brings into question the integrity of the game.  I don't believe we know how far these rocket scientists went, but it's not too hard to imagine what they could have done. 

 

Like engineer a trade of Carlos Correa and George Springer to the Twins for Ricky Nolasco and Doug Bernier

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I agree with you to a point.  In the case of Pete Rose, as manager he also could have had a direct impact on the results of his team.  So, I'd agree with you on that.  However, what those employee's of the Cardinals did brings into question the integrity of the game.  I don't believe we know how far these rocket scientists went, but it's not too hard to imagine what they could have done. 

 

Like engineer a trade of Carlos Correa and George Springer to the Twins for Ricky Nolasco and Doug Bernier

 

Perhaps if that database contained some incriminating photos of someone high up on the chain... hacking or not, I doubt that ever happens.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Perhaps if that database contained some incriminating photos of someone high up on the chain... hacking or not, I doubt that ever happens.

Hot St. Louis women is probably another story!! 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'm surprised nobody's updated this thread yet. I heard on Barreiro coming home that the Cardinals scouting director has been dismissed by the team today.

 

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinals-fire-scouting-director/article_b529088f-70c3-51c5-bab2-106afa1d2a12.html

 

That's a pretty high post...however... the guy was just promoted to that position this offseason. And he was brought in in 2009 and appears to have been a Luhnow guy. 

 

Still a developing story.

 

The Twins get criticized for not opening themselves to new ideas or personnel. Well, this helps me understand why they play it so conservatively with inviting outsiders in to their organization, because this could become a worst case scenario playing out for the Cardinals. 

[Vanimal46]

An update on this thread. Chris Correa pleads guilty to 5 counts of unauthorized access to computer information. 

Link to Story

[jimmer]

 

 

The Twins get criticized for not opening themselves to new ideas or personnel. Well, this helps me understand why they play it so conservatively with inviting outsiders in to their organization, because this could become a worst case scenario playing out for the Cardinals. 

I'm not sure why this one scenario is a defense for the Twins not welcoming new ideas or personnel.

[Don Walcott]

 

An update on this thread. Chris Correa pleads guilty to 5 counts of unauthorized access to computer information. 

Link to Story

So this all happened in 2013-2014.  The next question is who in the Cardinals' organization was aware this happened, and to what extent did they use the information stolen to inform Cardinals decisions.

[beckmt]

 

So this all happened in 2013-2014.  The next question is who in the Cardinals' organization was aware this happened, and to what extent did they use the information stolen to inform Cardinals decisions.

It was supposed to be that they wanted to see if the Houston GM had stolen and used data he received during his ST Louis days.  The hacking and using of information is illegal, hence the guilty plea, however still to be determined(presumably by the FBI) is if the Houston GM and associates stole proprietary data from ST. Louis.  In theory you can take what is in your head, but a copy of the database St. Louis used and player notes would be illegal.(In a written form).  FBI notes yet to come and it would not surprise me if the final result was a pox on both houses.

[Don Walcott]

 

It was supposed to be that they wanted to see if the Houston GM had stolen and used data he received during his ST Louis days.  The hacking and using of information is illegal, hence the guilty plea, however still to be determined(presumably by the FBI) is if the Houston GM and associates stole proprietary data from ST. Louis.  In theory you can take what is in your head, but a copy of the database St. Louis used and player notes would be illegal.(In a written form).  FBI notes yet to come and it would not surprise me if the final result was a pox on both houses.

Taking information from an employer is not necessarily illegal, though it can breach a duty of loyalty or an employment agreement.  I would assume that St. Louis had an employment agreement with Luhnow, or whomever it was whose laptop was used to obtain access to e-mails.  As part of that agreement, there would likely have been a definition of what information was considered a trade secret belonging to the Cardinals, and what remedies the Cardinals would have for any unauthorized use or disclosure of this information.  A breach of that agreement could result in a civil suit, seeking injunctive relief and damages.  If there was a breach by Luhnow or anyone else who jumped ship in 2011 for the Astros, I would have expected a lawsuit by now.  The fact that St. Louis hasn't sued anyone either means they have no evidence anyone did anything wrong, or that they failed to protect their trade secrets contractually with their employees and therefore don't have much of a case.  At this point, I highly doubt that anyone with the Astros is getting in trouble with the FBI.

[Don Walcott]

Actually, another possibility is that the Cardinals knew they'd done something illegal, and if they sued someone for taking proprietary information, they'd be found out.