Article: Liriano Rediscovers the Slider

[Parker Hageman]

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?686-Liriano-Rediscovers-the-Slider

[Paul]

Another nice job Parker. It's hard to weigh the worth to the team in keeping Frankie vs flipping him. I'm at about 51% on my mental scale that he should be kept.

For 2 reasons:

 

1. Pitchers, even stupid pitchers, get wiser about their job as they get older. And pitchers can stay in the game until their stuff erodes and no one wants to pay them anymore. Frankie's stuff is great.

 

2. There's SO much potential.

[glunn]

I agree with Paul. The Twins desperately need good starters, and if Liriano can be good, then he is worth keeping.

[Blackjack]

It would be nice to keep him, but at what price?? Blackburn money? Hes a border line head case but with his potential I think the Twins will get outbid for him.

[twinzgrl]

Liriano has been better. Color me skeptical that he can keep it going. But, I think Terry Ryan will make a decision based on all the factors (as we all know there are many). We need competent starting pitching. Can he give it to us? At what price? It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

[nicksaviking]

I would guess if Gardy and Anderson have a say (and at this point they actually may not) they would cut him loose. I've never heard either of them as exhasperated as when a reporter asks them about a Liriano performance. I'm for keeping him around at a reasonable price but the coaching staff tends to prefer stability even at the expense of a useful player.

[Winston Smith]

Keeping him for what? August and Sept taking up a spot on a very bad pitching staff that could be taken by somebody that might help next year? Is there a 5% chance he resigns next year? I doubt it.

Why after all these years of hope and failure would they even consider giving him a new contract? With all the teams looking for pitching there will be a least a couple that will offer him a stupid amout when he hits the market. The choice isn't the Twins anyway he's a free agent after the season.

Get what you can for him, which likely won't be much, and move on.

[Parker Hageman]

I do believe he's worn out his welcome in Minnesota but if he continues this trend, he'll definitely be a buy-low type of pitcher either at the trade deadline or in free agency at the end of the season.

[YLT]

For as many question marks there are surrounding Liriano, there is no way the Twins give him the kind of money he'll demand as a free agent. I don't care how much potential he has. If he goes on to another team and finds a little of his old self again I'd be very happy and not incredibly surprised. It just doesn't seem like it's going to happen in MN. Ultimately though it comes down to the cost.

[clutterheart]

Everything I read says Gardy and Anderson like him a lot and i think he has not worn out his welcome. He is rumored to be a stand up guy and very liked by the team. Its just he is not very good right now.

I fear he goes to a team like the white sox and gets put on track by some other team.

[Parker Hageman]

Everything I read says Gardy and Anderson like him a lot and i think he has not worn out his welcome. He is rumored to be a stand up guy and very liked by the team.

It's not personality, it's performance related.

[Guest USAFChief]

I was hopeful the Twins would have reached a reasonable extension with Liriano over the past winter, and remain hopeful they'll find a way to keep him around in the future. There is little chance the Twins will find a pitcher with a better chance of being well above average next winter, at similar cost. I bet he'd take a 3 yr deal right now if offered. Maybe it backfires on the Twins, but who wants to go into next year with Blackburn or some other free agent off the scrap heap at the top of the rotation?

 

I know he started the year terribly, but the guy has more talent than any starter on the Twins, and more talent than anything they're likely to sign over the winter.

[tcarlic]

And then he goes and throws like is tonight... through 5 he only threw 56 pitches or something like that. All the dude needs to do is throw the ball over the plate.

[Brock Beauchamp]

And then he goes and throws like is tonight... through 5 he only threw 56 pitches or something like that. All the dude needs to do is throw the ball over the plate.

Facing the Pirates helps a bit. Still, he's throwing a gem through 5+ so far.

[greengoblinrulz]

Liriano on the comeback....5 starts 1W 3L

30.1IP 16h 8er (2.37ERA) 35K 12bb

is still mentally soft

Someone please make us an offer before he regresses

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

The Twins need to sign Liriano. Simply put, what we have for next year is no good and has no potential (Blackburn, Walters, Diamond, Hendriks,?). That group is not even watchable. In addition to being awful, there's not enough players under contract. Someone has to be that question mark. There is no way I'd give a contract to Greinke or Sanchez. Not Sanchez because he could be risky as a pitcher who has played in the NL his entire career and not Greinke because he is terrible at Target Field. We have a lot of money coming off the books and no free agents to sign. I don't see any harm in offering 6 million to Liriano through arbitration.

[chopper0080]

Seriously? You guys are now advocating Liriano after a few good starts? This is who he is, a totally inconsistent pitcher with talent. Hoping he stays hot and trading him for a middle grade prospect is our best case scenario. Liriano is never going to be a pitcher a club can rely on and we will be lucky to get something for him.

[Andrew Bryz-Gornia]

...not Greinke because he is terrible at Target Field.

A 5.63 ERA in only 5 starts at Target Field is a terrible reason to not sign him. No, the Twins won't sign him because he'll be too expensive.

[Cody Christie]

Liriano's slider looked nasty against some hitters tonight. It gave me flashbacks to when he first came into the league. Even with a decent start, the 7th inning was frustrating. It is hard to imagine him ever being able to put it all back together for a full season. That's probably why he will be on a different team by the start of next year.

[greengoblinrulz]

The Twins need to sign Liriano. Simply put, what we have for next year is no good and has no potential (Blackburn, Walters, Diamond, Hendriks,?). That group is not even watchable. In addition to being awful, there's not enough players under contract. Someone has to be that question mark. There is no way I'd give a contract to Greinke or Sanchez. Not Sanchez because he could be risky as a pitcher who has played in the NL his entire career and not Greinke because he is terrible at Target Field. We have a lot of money coming off the books and no free agents to sign. I don't see any harm in offering 6 million to Liriano through arbitration.

cannot offer $6m to him in arbitration......has to be $12m under new rules.

Does this change your attitude on this bum?

[snepp]

More like $12.5 million.

 

 

Consider your nits picked.

[Guest USAFChief]

Seriously? You guys are now advocating Liriano after a few good starts? This is who he is, a totally inconsistent pitcher with talent. Hoping he stays hot and trading him for a middle grade prospect is our best case scenario. Liriano is never going to be a pitcher a club can rely on and we will be lucky to get something for him.

FWIW, I disagree with everything in this post. Strongly.

 

"Inconsistent...with talent" beats the crap out of consistent but with no talent. Isn't that exactly what everyone complains about, endlessly? The Twins have no talented starting pitchers?

 

Perhaps Liriano never does figure it out. But on a team desparate for above average starting pitching I'd take Liriano over any combination of Blackburn/Marquis/Pavano/Walters/whatever scrap heap reclamation project next season brings us, any day, and it wouldn't cost much more. In some cases, less.

 

IMO some team is going to get a gem in Liriano some day. I hope it's the Twins.

[Guest USAFChief]

More like $12.5 million.

 

 

Consider your nits picked.

I'd offer 3/$21 right now. I bet he'd take it. That's one more year and only $2.5M more than Pavano got to lead the league in hits allowed and implode in year two.

[snepp]

I'd offer 3/$21 right now. I bet he'd take it. That's one more year and only $2.5M more than Pavano got to lead the league in hits allowed and implode in year two.

That would be a whole lot better risk than the guaranteed mediocrity they would likely sign otherwise.

[CDog]

I don't see any harm in offering 6 million to Liriano through arbitration.

I have a question on the new rules and that reminded me. There's that ~$12M number that is out there...is that the amount they have to offer him IN ORDER TO GET a compensation pick? Or is that the minimum arbitration number, period? I guess I'm wondering if they could offer him arbitration for a more reasonable number.

[Shane Wahl]

Parker, you do a great job trying to unravel this mystery.

[Twins best friend]

Seriously? You guys are now advocating Liriano after a few good starts? This is who he is, a totally inconsistent pitcher with talent. Hoping he stays hot and trading him for a middle grade prospect is our best case scenario. Liriano is never going to be a pitcher a club can rely on and we will be lucky to get something for him.

I've gotta say that I agree to an extent. If the Twins can't get a good return on him though a trade then they may as well see how little they can pay for him. It's all but decided that the Twins are not going to compete next year and while Liriano can be awful, he can also be spectacular. If the previously mentioned scenario plays out then there's no reason they shouldn't take a chance on giving fans potential greatness when his inconsistency surely won't cost the team their season.

[glunn]

i agree with those who prefer the hope for having an ace over the guaranteed mediocrity that will result from letting Liriano go. Maybe if they could get a prospect who has ace potential, this might make sense. Otherwise, if Liriano does well during the rest of this season, I would offer the minimum amount necessary to qualify for a compensation pick.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

cannot offer $6m to him in arbitration......has to be $12m under new rules.

Does this change your attitude on this bum?

You're telling me the 80% rule was changed in the new CBA? What Cdog said makes a lot more sense.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

I have a question on the new rules and that reminded me. There's that ~$12M number that is out there...is that the amount they have to offer him IN ORDER TO GET a compensation pick? Or is that the minimum arbitration number, period? I guess I'm wondering if they could offer him arbitration for a more reasonable number.

I believe you are correct. The 12.5 million number I assume is the average salary of the 125 highest paid players that posters keep bringing up. This only pertains to Draft Pick Compensation under the new CBA and the 80% rule still stands. Therefore, my stance in my previous post doesn't change and I would be shocked if Liriano didn't accept 6 million after pitching like crap.

Source: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/2011_CBA.pdf