Is Marty Mason the best choice for pitching coach?

[DocBauer]

First, I hope this is all quickly moot as the winning candidate is quickly announced. Secondly, there are many candidates for other coaching positions I have debated and even thrown out, Yount, Sveum, Manuel, Fernandez, Blanco, just to name a few. But like most of us, the names of real, viable...dare I say perfect...candidates for the Twins next pitching coach are hard to come up with. But I'm starting to wonder if the right candidate isn't already "in house" in regard to Marty Mason.

 

Mason began his coaching career in 1986 as a player coach in the Cardinals system before moving to coach status full time the next season. He has spent his entire coaching career, since 1986, in the Cardinals system at various stops, including a tenure as the Cardinals bullpen coach from 2000-2010. The Cardinals are a sound, quality organization, one of the best in baseball, and have a reputation for producing quality pitching talent. As an organization, they've also been applauded here on TD on many occasions.

 

Mason has spent TWO years in the Twins system, so he is no homer. But in those two years, particularly 2014, he's worked with May, Meyer, Darnell, Tonkin, Achter, Oliveros, Pressley and others, mostly with high success. His biggest negative could simply be not knowing Molitor very well, or having spent too many years with one organization rather than moving around some.

 

What is the consensus? Is Mason perhaps a/the top/best candidate?

[diehardtwinsfan]

I have no problems with these types of candidates. They have some experience internally, but quite a bit externally and enough to know (and hopefully the skillset to say) when things don't make sense.

[Thrylos]

I'd love to know a single pitcher who Mason turned around and made a star.   There is a better internal candidate.  Ask Johan, Pedro and the Big Unit...

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Say.... Will the Twins name the new pitching coach or sign a FA pitcher first?

 

If you were a Free Agent pitcher, would you be interested in signing with a team that did not yet have a pitching coach?

[Brock Beauchamp]

If you were a Free Agent pitcher, would you be interested in signing with a team that did not yet have a pitching coach?

I doubt it matters much, as the likelihood of the free agent knowing a new team's pitching coach well enough to form an opinion is small.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I doubt it matters much, as the likelihood of the free agent knowing a new team's pitching coach well enough to form an opinion is small.

The FA may not know much, but they may have an opinion.  (Not unlike posters here )

 

The FA's agent might have clients that have worked with the coach.  They may have teammates/friends that worked with the coach, or in an organization/program that included the coach.

 

And if the FA pitcher is like Hughes last year or Masterson this year, a guy who needs to get back on track, I would think his opinion about the pitching coach could be a pretty big deal -- easily could be a tiebreaker for Masterson if he's mulling multiple similar offers.  And thus the absence of a pitching coach could be a problem.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'd love to know a single pitcher who Mason turned around and made a star.   There is a better internal candidate.  Ask Johan, Pedro and the Big Unit...

Cuellar is an odd candidate.  As you mention, he's got some big names on his resume, but he's been dismissed as a big league pitching coach several times, and he's been stuck in mostly minor or minor league positions with not-so-prestigious organizations (2006-2007 Pittsburgh, Twins since).

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I doubt it matters much, as the likelihood of the free agent knowing a new team's pitching coach well enough to form an opinion is small.

I agree that it's probably not a deciding factor - but I'm guessing that no pitching coach at all is a bigger issue than it would be if Rick Anderson was still the coach.

A guy may not have an opinion on a specific coach, but they might be hesitant to sign because they *might* hate the coach that will eventually be hired.

It could be Morris, Blyleven, Dick Such, Ron Davis, or John Rocker already hired to the position and a guy wouldn't care that much, but not knowing who it could be might give a player pause.

[Seth Stohs]

I think Mason is interesting. I know that the pitchers who have worked with him really like his style and the things he finds for them to work on and improve. He is an "outsider." He does come from the very successful Cardinals organization. i'd have no problem with them hiring him at all. 

 

He's not a big name, so most probably wouldn't like the hire, but it could be a good choice.  I mean, it's hard to know. Leo Mazzone could have been the Twins pitching coach the last few years and they probably woudln't have been much better. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

About Mason: I wonder why the Cardinals dismissed him after 2010?  I know a lot of coaches have been dismissed at one time or another, so I try not to read too much into it, but it is curious -- there was no front office or coaching shake-up for the Cards that winter, just Mason.  And he had been with them a LONG time.  And they haven't missed much of a beat since then.

 

The Cubs let him leave for Rochester after 2012 too, after one season in the minors under the Epstein regime (he was hired by the previous front office).

[nicksaviking]

 

And if the FA pitcher is like Hughes last year or Masterson this year, a guy who needs to get back on track, I would think his opinion about the pitching coach could be a pretty big deal -

 

Ha, I hope you realize the implication of Hughes chosing Minnesota in part because of their pitching coach at the time!

[Otto von Ballpark]

Ha, I hope you realize the implication of Hughes chosing Minnesota in part because of their pitching coach at the time!

I sorta do.  As much as Anderson really hadn't delivered much results recently, it's also true he didn't have a ton to work with, and I doubt he had a bad reputation around the league.  And if Hughes thought he could benefit from a reduction in walks, that had been noted as Anderson's speciality.

[Seth Stohs]

About Mason: I wonder why the Cardinals dismissed him after 2010?  I know a lot of coaches have been dismissed at one time or another, so I try not to read too much into it, but it is curious -- there was no front office or coaching shake-up for the Cards that winter, just Mason.  And he had been with them a LONG time.  And they haven't missed much of a beat since then.

 

The Cubs let him leave for Rochester after 2012 too, after one season in the minors under the Epstein regime (he was hired by the previous front office).

 

This is all stuff that might come up in an interview... or at least it did when they hired him. I would think the Twins did their due diligence with all of this before even hiring him for Rochester. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

The FA may not know much, but they may have an opinion.  (Not unlike posters here )

 

The FA's agent might have clients that have worked with the coach.  They may have teammates/friends that worked with the coach, or in an organization/program that included the coach.

 

And if the FA pitcher is like Hughes last year or Masterson this year, a guy who needs to get back on track, I would think his opinion about the pitching coach could be a pretty big deal -- easily could be a tiebreaker for Masterson if he's mulling multiple similar offers.  And thus the absence of a pitching coach could be a problem.

Good point on Masterson. I imagine a well-reputed pitching coach would have an impact on the signing of a struggling arm looking to rebound.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

This is all stuff that might come up in an interview... or at least it did when they hired him. I would think the Twins did their due diligence with all of this before even hiring him for Rochester. 

 

The other thing to consider is that Mason might not know why - The Cards and the Cubs may not have told him... Why did the Twins let Gary Lucas go? It seemed to Twins Daily posters that this was not because Lucas was a bad coach/instructor...

 

I think Mason's past experience in the St. Louis org is a positive thing. If they let him go becuase he was bad at his job, I think he would have had a harder time finding a new gig. It seems like he wasn't out of work long and the Twins were happy to have him in his current position..

[Otto von Ballpark]

This is all stuff that might come up in an interview... or at least it did when they hired him. I would think the Twins did their due diligence with all of this before even hiring him for Rochester. 

True, although "due diligence" for AAA pitching coach is probably quite a bit different than the same for MLB pitching coach.

 

And even if these matters have been discussed before, that doesn't mean they are no longer relevant to a promotion.  Maybe they are factors in how the Twins see him as fit for minor league assignments, but not top MLB staff?

 

Anyway, I don't know anything about Mason, so I certainly was not trying to cast aspersions on him.  Just noting that it was a little odd.  From my vantage point, though, I certainly prefer Mason to simply reaching out to former Twins pitchers or Minnesota natives (and maybe also preferable to the journeyman Cuellar?).

[PseudoSABR]

Darren Wolfson ‏@DarrenWolfson  10m10 minutes ago
Told the #MNTwins are down to two candidates for the pitching coach job. Viola has been eliminated. He was granted a phone interview.

[nicksaviking]

Darren Wolfson ‏@DarrenWolfson  10m10 minutes ago

Told the #MNTwins are down to two candidates for the pitching coach job. Viola has been eliminated. He was granted a phone interview.

 

Ouch.  It sounded like the whole gang flew to southern California to tell Lovullo he didn't get the job.

 

They've certainly kept tight lips on this one.  No surprise I guess, though this might be as important of a hire as the manager position all things considered.

[Seth Stohs]

They've definitely been more close-lipped on the pitching coach, and frankly, there is much less information for guessing too. I mean, there were 10 candidates for the manager job and we heard about everything but there were also a bunch of obvious candidates. It's impossible for us to know who would be a good candidate for pitching coach. 

 

As for the phone interview, we don't really know what that means. It's possible that the Mets gave the permission for the Twins to only call him as opposed to meeting him in person. We just don't know. 

[The Wise One]

I'd love to know a single pitcher who Mason turned around and made a star.   There is a better internal candidate.  Ask Johan, Pedro and the Big Unit...

Adam Wainwright started his big leauge career in Mason's bullpen. The numbers for his minor league career were not great foe the high minors. Of course Wainwright started his career so long ago that those seasons are but a faded memory.

[The Wise One]

The other thing to consider is that Mason might not know why - The Cards and the Cubs may not have told him... Why did the Twins let Gary Lucas go? It seemed to Twins Daily posters that this was not because Lucas was a bad coach/instructor...

 

I think Mason's past experience in the St. Louis org is a positive thing. If they let him go becuase he was bad at his job, I think he would have had a harder time finding a new gig. It seems like he wasn't out of work long and the Twins were happy to have him in his current position..

The story at one time was Lucas was coaching in the midwest league so he could be closer to home. Last year he was in Florida. Not exactly close to home.

LaRussa's team had a bad year in 2010. 86 wins, but a lot more was expected. Somebody had to be the fall guy. The other explanation was he told the scouting director to find better material to build a pitching staff from. There was some speculation that the scouting director did not take to well to his master plan being questioned.

When the Cubs fired Mason, they also fired a lot of the rest of their minor league staff.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Darren Wolfson ‏@DarrenWolfson  10m10 minutes ago

Told the #MNTwins are down to two candidates for the pitching coach job. Viola has been eliminated. He was granted a phone interview.

Is there a consensus about who those two candidates are? Don't say Brian Duensing.

[Craig Arko]

Sounds like Carl Willis is one of them.